All-time draft 1st round: #6 Miami Screaming Eagles @ #3 Philadelphia Flyes

John Flyers Fan

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Miami Screaming Eagles :thumbd:

Frank Mahovlich - Syl Apps Sr. (C)- Boris Mikhailov (A)
Alexsander Yakushev- Bobby Smith - Vaclav Nedomansky
Woody Dumart- Doug Weight - Peter Bondra
Vic Stasiuk - Steve Kasper - Mike Keane

Harry Howell (A) - Tom Johnson
Lennart Svedberg - Jack Crawford
Wally Stanowski - Behn Wilson


Reserve : Tommy Anderson
Reserve : Jim Roberts

Starting Goaltender : Patrick Roy
Backup Goaltender : Pete Peeters
Backup Goltender : Jon Casey

Head Coach : Lester Patrick

Philadelphia Flyers :thumbu:

Brendan Shanahan - Bobby Clarke (C) - Frank Foyston
Andrei Khomutov - Vyachaslav Bykov - Sergei Makarov
Luc Robitaille - Kent Nilsson - Willi Plett
Pat Verbeek - Chris Drury - Steve Larmer

Kris Draper

Herb Gardiner (A) - Mark Howe
Eddie Gerard (A) - Si Griffis
Steve Smith - Petr Svoboda
Darryl Sydor


Martin Brodeur
Roy Worters
Ken Wregget


Coach - Mike Keenan
 
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MXD

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Oct 27, 2005
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This is the kind of matchup that I'm happy that I drafted my "Big" 2nd line. Clarke was a great defensive player, but if he ends up playing against my 2nd line to cover them defensively, he would lose what makes him a perennial 1st rounder : his playmaking ability.
 

John Flyers Fan

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This is the kind of matchup that I'm happy that I drafted my "Big" 2nd line. Clarke was a great defensive player, but if he ends up playing against my 2nd line to cover them defensively, he would lose what makes him a perennial 1st rounder : his playmaking ability.

Clarke will likely go head-to-head with Apps ..... but Clarke won't lose anything no matter the match-up. He will be the best skater on the ice.
 

shawnmullin

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I expect high scoring games between two teams who seemed to look at 3rd lines as another excuse to score goals. Yet they also have two of the best goaltenders in hockey.

Wide open hockey with Roy and Brodeur playing "can you top this."

Probably the most fun series to watch.
 

MXD

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Clarke will likely go head-to-head with Apps ..... but Clarke won't lose anything no matter the match-up. He will be the best skater on the ice.

Well, he was a great player for sure. But my point is that he might be forced to play against my 2nd line whenever there's a faceoff in your zone(and beleive me, Brodeur BETTER freeze the puck often considering the talent my squad as at scoring garbage goals). With the notable exception of Gardiner, who's still conceding 25 pounds or so to my smallest player on my 2nd line, you're gonna have problems clearing the crease, which might be passibly occupied with this line on the ice. If you want to play Clarke against Apps, I don't any problem with it. However, it might lead to problems should you need to ice, let's say, Andrei Khomutov to toss the Yak, the Ned or the Bob out of the crease.

But a playmaking C can only be as good offensively as his wingers permits him to be. And, without being "mean"... Well, I have Mahovlich and Mikhailov, and you obviously don't . :)
 

John Flyers Fan

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But a playmaking C can only be as good offensively as his wingers permits him to be. And, without being "mean"... Well, I have Mahovlich and Mikhailov, and you obviously don't . :)

I only have two LW's with over 600 goals each ...... Foyston was possibly th efirst to ever score 200 goals ..... Makarov might very well be the biggest game breaker in the series.

My defense doesn't have size, but I have the most mobile defense in the draft ... the transistion game will leave those big forwards of yours sucking wind on the backcheck.

By the way how many times is Roy going to turn the puck over to me trying to match Brodeur's puckhandling ability ???
 

Hockey Outsider

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FORWARDS: Two great top lines. Both lines feature a strong, two-way playmaking centre, a talented, high-scoring RW, and a goal-scoring LW. I give the advantage to the Flyers’ top line due to Clarke’s incredible defensive play and Clarke and Shanahan’s significant physical play. There’s a lot of offensive firepower on the second line. Overall, Philadelphia gets the advantage here due to superior depth. Drury, Verbeek and Larmer provide toughness, two-way play and veteran leadership, while Plett provides toughness and Nilsson and Robitaille provide additional scoring threats. I also like Miami’s depth, but they don’t have the same level of toughness or firepower. Advantage: Philadelphia.

DEFENSE: Miami has a significant advantage here. While they won’t score much, Howell and Johnson are the top two defensemen in this series and are capable of playing 25 minutes per night each. Miami has great depth of its own with rushers in Svedberg and Stanowski and some size and toughness in Wilson. Philadelphia has strong depth with two excellent rushing defensemen from the past (Gerard and Griffis) and a Hart-winner. I like the Flyers' speed, but the lack of an elite blueliner will hurt. Advantage: Miami.

COACHING: An interesting match-up. Despite many criticisms, Keenan is often able to get a lot out of his players (albeit usually for only a few years at a time). In a one-year, one-playoff series showdown, I think that Keenan is an ideal motivator. Keenan’s often criticized for mishandling young players and goalies. I don’t see either of those (rather significant) flaws affecting the series here. Everybody on Philadelphia is a proven veteran, and there’s really no way to screw up the goaltending strategy of starting Brodeur in every game. On the other hand, Patrick was a brilliant innovator. I’m sure somebody with his level of hockey knowledge could come up with some appropriate strategies. Too close to call.

GOALIES: A match-up between two of the best playoff goalies ever, with the cool and composed Brodeur facing the competitive, intense Roy. The advantage goes to Miami; Roy’s three Conn Smythes are impossible to overlook. Roy also gets the advantage because he can play not to lose (like Dryden) on dominant teams, or keep his team in the series even if all the other players are struggling. It’s also worth noting that Brodeur might be slightly out of his comfort zone here; his playoff success came behind excellent defensive, trapping teams. It doesn’t look like the Flyers will play that style. While I expect that Brodeur and Roy will get all the starts in this matchup, it’s worth noting that Worters is a much better backup than Peeters. Advantage: Miami.

GRIT: When I did my write-up about the Eagles, I noted that most of the teams is large, tough, and not particularly aggressive (Apps, Howell, Johnson, Keane, etc). The Flyers are a much more aggressive team with players like Verbeek, Clarke, Shanahan and Larmer. Will the Flyers’ more aggressive approach wear the Eagles down? Or will it simply land them in the penalty box?

INTANGIBLES: This match-up features two of the greatest captains in NHL history (Clarke vs Apps) and two proven, veteran goalies that will give their teams the ability to open up if necessary. I think that Philadelphia has slightly more proven, clutch players like Shanahan, Larmer and Drury. A fast, mobile defense and the presence of Brodeur gives the Flyers a big advantage on the transition game. Advantage: Philadelphia.

Overall, I believe that the Flyers are a tougher, more skilled team while the Screaming Eagles are better on the blueline and in net. This will be a close series.
 

MXD

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Oct 27, 2005
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I only have two LW's with over 600 goals each ...... Foyston was possibly th efirst to ever score 200 goals ..... Makarov might very well be the biggest game breaker in the series.

I was talking about only 1 LW...The one that will be playing with Clarkie. If you talk about Foyston having scored 200 goals, well, Mahovlich reached 600 too (if we're to consider out-NHL leagues, we should as well consider them all, right?)... And Mikhailov have close to 500 goals in something like 600 games in Russian League.
 

vancityluongo

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Miami's going to win IMO. I like the Eagles top line, while I don't personally know much about Philly's 2nd line.
 

MXD

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Miami's going to win IMO. I like the Eagles top line, while I don't personally know much about Philly's 2nd line.

Their second line can definitely score goals with Makarov (who's FAR from my favorite russian player, but no one will deny this guy could skate and score), and be somewhat competent defensively. Not good, not great, not even fair : he's competent.

Bykov is (or was?!) the national coach of Russia's team. A sound tactician on the ice, he was a fast and creative center who played in the shadow of Igor Larionov. He couldn't win a faceoff to save his life, and couldn't lead the CSKA to victory when the KLM left. He led Russia to victory in Albertville '92, and refused to come in NA when he learned that he would earn less than Valery Kamensky.


Khomutov was a winger alongside Bykov. What puzzles me is that he's an RW, and played at LW in JFF's team. Smallish player, was able to play offensively, don't have a clue about him defensively. Was a star in Switzerland.

Briefly, this is a fast line that is able to score goals. Their defensive play is a big, big question mark - and since 2/3 of this line never had to face top line or best defensive line of the opposition - one can point out their lack of experience playing against top players -- not to mention that Bykov was scratched in Canada Cup for obscure reasons. This line also averages 5'9.33 and 173 pounds. To give a comparison, my 2nd line averages 6'3 and roughly 215 pounds.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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+1

Flyers to take the series when Patrick Roy surrenders 7 goals in the deciding game ...

I would have no problem losing to the Flyers winning this matchup : JFF obviously drafted a great team that he probably thought a lot about, as his squad really makes sense as a squad (don't know how to put this...) sacrificing some big names in order to have a 2nd line with chemistery, amongst others.

However, is this kind of comment REALLY have its place amongst voting?
 

ck26

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no, I believe we will only be taking votes from GMs, or if posters like ClassicHockey, etc. decide to stop by and give an analysis.
Sorry for trying to be funny ...

I don't think Philly's lack of an elite blueliner will hurt that much because someone like Clarke is capable of shutting down a Mahovlich or a Mikhailov, and is capable of doing it and still doing a little scoring himself.

Flyers have reserves who are superior to starters (Draper/Drury and Sydor/Svoboda), which makes the Flyers grit&toughness advantage even more pronounced. Shanahan / Clarke / Foyston is a nasty first line, and is better than Mahovlich / Apps / Mikhailov. Flyer's bottom 2 lines have great combinations of skill (Nilsson and Robitaille) and vinegar (Verbeek, Draper and Larmer)

Patrick Roy's "intensity" doesn't bode well for a series against Verbeek and Larmer and Shanahan ... if Roy's "intensity" results in powerplays, that could be huge. Curious if John drafted 3 Soviet teammates intentionally or if that was just an after-market effect ... eitherway, he gets more points for what is an awfully good 2nd line. Flyers in 6.
 

John Flyers Fan

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Why we will win:

#1. Bobby Clarke - clearly the best skater on the ice, and he'll have a dominant presence in the series. An all time great leader, he'll be setting up Shanahan and Foyston on a regular basis. I don't think it will be needed but he can also be used to shut down a top line if it's giving us too many problems.

#2. Goaltending - Miami was clearly pinning a lot of it's hope in having a decided edge in goal, and that isn't the case in this series. The goaltending match-up becomes a wash

#3. Lack of cycle game by Miami - My one true weakness could be size and strength on the blue line, but while Miami does have size, they don't have a line that is going to get a big cycle game going down low to wear down my smaller defense.

#4. Fourth line: Clear advantage.

#5. Home ice advantage - able to match lines and get Clarke out against whomever we prefer.
 

pitseleh

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Jul 30, 2005
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I think the key for Philadelphia will be their second defensive unit. Given that the top pairings will log a ton of minutes against the oppositions top lines, if Gerard/Svoboda are able to shutdown Miami's second line, I think it will swing this in their favour. I don't see that same capability to shut down Philadelphia's second line in Miami's second or third pairing. I also think that getting scoring from the fourth line will be important for Philadelphia. They have a significantly greater capacity for scoring than Miami's, and seeing as both teams only have one checking line, they'll probably need to see the ice quite a bit.

I think Miami will need their first line to step up. I like it better than Philadelphia's first line, but if there is a head to head matchup of first lines, they will need to outscore Philadelphia's first line if they want to win this series. They will also need Roy to outplay Brodeur. It's no easy task, but I think Roy is capable of taking it to a higher level.
 

John Flyers Fan

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There's no wash when you have the best playoff performer of all-time between your pipe.

I'll gladly stack Marty's 3 Stanley Cup's, 1 Olympic Gold and 1 World Cup Champ against Roy's 4 Stanley Cup's.

GAA under 1.90 ... 1 So behind Roy in nearly 90 less games.

Goaltending is not something I'm worried about, in this series or any other.
 

God Bless Canada

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Haven't had the chance to talk or think about this series very much.

A lot of similarities between these two teams. They're rooted in excellent goaltending. Roy/Brodeur will be one of the best goaltending battles in draft history. I think Roy might be a little better suited to his team's style of play. He's shown he can thrive behind a run-and-gun squad. We've never seen Brodeur behind a team like Philly.

They also have question marks on the blue line. Neither team has that elite, top 10 or even top 20 all-time defenceman. They have depth, but nobody who's going to thrive playing 28-30 minutes per game. I do want to see what Tom Johnson can do with the offensive green light, and Harry Howell covering for him.

Both teams can roll three lines that can score. They do it in different ways - Miami has all those big, skilled forwards, Philly might actually have a little more toughness in their top nine, with Clarke, Foytson, Shanahan and Plett. Philly's fourth line wingers are good enough to play on some teams' second line.

I would like to see more physical play from Miami's top six, since they are so friggin' big. Mikhailov's the smallest of those top six, and he might be the most physical. San Jose didn't do too well with a bunch of big, but not tough, forwards.

Miami also has the better checking line. Philly doesn't have a true checking line. Miami does. But if Miami throws Kasper out there against Clarke's line, it means the Eagles will employ a line with Petr Bondra against the Soviets, or Luc Robitaille and Kent Nilsson.

If there's a big edge in this series, I think it's in coaching. Lester Patrick is a much better coach than Mike Keenan. Patrick's one of the top 10 of all-time.
 

John Flyers Fan

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Miami also has the better checking line. Philly doesn't have a true checking line. Miami does. But if Miami throws Kasper out there against Clarke's line, it means the Eagles will employ a line with Petr Bondra against the Soviets, or Luc Robitaille and Kent Nilsson.

If there's a big edge in this series, I think it's in coaching. Lester Patrick is a much better coach than Mike Keenan. Patrick's one of the top 10 of all-time.

If I need to create a shutdown line I certainly can, I just don't feel that it's necessary is this match-up. I plan on using Clarke to go head to head top line vs. top line.

I'd also disgree regarding Keenan. In a one season, one playoff type tournament, I feel that he's in the top 10. 1 Stanley Cup, 2 Canada Cups (when they still meant something), four Stanley Cup Finals appearances.
 

God Bless Canada

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If I need to create a shutdown line I certainly can, I just don't feel that it's necessary is this match-up. I plan on using Clarke to go head to head top line vs. top line.

I'd also disgree regarding Keenan. In a one season, one playoff type tournament, I feel that he's in the top 10. 1 Stanley Cup, 2 Canada Cups (when they still meant something), four Stanley Cup Finals appearances.
Actually, the first Canada Cup in 87 meant something. It's likely Canada's most meaningful victory between Summit and the 02 Olys. But by the time 91 Canada Cup rolled around, for whatever reason (I think largely due to the problems with the USSR), the tournament lost some its luster.

And I think quite a few coaches could have guided the 87 and 91 teams to victory.
 

Murphy

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The Wachovia Center is going nuts as Kate Smith finishes God Bless America. Patrick Roy is starting for the Miami Screaming Eagles and Martin Brodeur is starting for the Philadelphia Flyers.

The puck drops and the Flyers press early, 9 shots are directed at Roy in the first 6 minutes. Bobby Clarke and Brendan Shanahan are playing possesed and seem to have their way in Miami's end. Harry Howell trips up Foyston and second later Roy retaliates against Robitaille who's camped in front. The Flyers continue to press and fire 7 more shots at Roy during the 5 on 3 but can't solve him. As the last penalty finishes, Svedberg springs Bondra who's coming out of the box and he scores on Miami's first shot of the game on a breakaway. The period ends with Miami ahead 1-0

The teams settle down in an uneventful second period. The Flyers are carring a majority of the play as Miami seems content to try and sit and protect their lead. Stanowski and Behn Wilson are playing particularily strong blocking shots and clearing their zone with authority. As the period winds down Bobby Smith springs Nedomansky on another breakaway and scores on Brodeur. Its Miami's 10th shot on net and they end the period with a 2-0 lead.

The third starts much like the first with the Flyers pressing early. The momentum ends soon though after Bobby Clarke takes a goaltending interference call. The crowd is not impressed and the boos rain down when Syl Apps scores on the powerplay with a nice tip, Svedberg & Jack Crawford earn assists. The wind seems to be taken away from the Flyers and the Screaming Eagles have found some confidence. They have taken momentum away from the Flyers and add an exclamation point when Doug Weight feeds Bondra for a goal on a pretty 2 on 1 play.

The Miami Screaming Eagles skate off with a 4-0 win and the Warchovia center is in a foul mood, a much different atmosphere then when the game started.
 
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