God Bless Canada
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Now that teams are starting to complete their rosters, it's time to start with another ATD tradition: evaluations. Please post your completed rosters here.
When I look at this team, I see a lot of guys who never played against the best in the world on a nightly basis. And it's a big concern. They played in fractured leagues, or European leagues. pappy's right when he questions the double-standard in this draft, and why we treat the WCHL and the PCHA and the European leagues different from the WHA. How are they going to adjust to playing against the best ever on a nightly basis, when they never played against the best in the world on a nightly basis? Some players are going to be in for a real learning curve.
And you're right: the talent was split. And that's where you get into the tough part for evaluating talent - how will guys adjust to playing against the best ever, when they never played against the best in the world on a nightly basis. And it was a completely different game back then. We talked about how now it's a different game than 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The rules in the game really haven't changed much. The last major rule change, IMO, that had a visible impact on how the game was changed on a shift-by-shift basis was when they allowed players to pass the puck across their own blue-line back in 44. Since then, the approach has changed many times, and the rule changes have been minor or mild.If you are going to critize the PCHA for not having the best in the world at the time, then you are going to have to critize the NHL in that time period for the same thing, because the best were really split between the two. The difference to these leagues and WHA is, to my knowledge, never had any serious opportunity to show itself against the NHL stars in real competition, and succeed, as the WCHL, PCHA, and European leagues (the later ones at least) did.
And you're right: the talent was split. And that's where you get into the tough part for evaluating talent - how will guys adjust to playing against the best ever, when they never played against the best in the world on a nightly basis. And it was a completely different game back then. We talked about how now it's a different game than 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The rules in the game really haven't changed much. The last major rule change, IMO, that had a visible impact on how the game was changed on a shift-by-shift basis was when they allowed players to pass the puck across their own blue-line back in 44. Since then, the approach has changed many times, and the rule changes have been minor or mild.
We saw the best team from the western leagues play the best team from the NHL/NHA. To my knowledge, there wasn't an all-star game between the two leagues, or a series between the best players from the PCHA/WCHL vs. the best from the NHA/NHL. At least we had that with Summit in 72. We saw the best in the USSR vs. the best in the NHL. And it changed everyone's perceptions.
For the record, if the WHA ever played the NHL in an all-star game, or a Summit-esque series, I think the WHA would have beat the NHL. Not because the WHA was better. But for the guys in the WHA, it would have meant the world to them. To the NHL guys, it would have been an exhibition.
Kimberley Dynamiters
Head Coach: Pete Green
Ast. Coach: John Muckler
Sid Smith-Joe Sakic (C)-Larry Aurie
Brian Bellows-Marcel Dionne-Reggie Leach
Thomas Steen-Kenta Nilsson-Hakan Loob
Johnny Gottselig-Dave Poulin-Mario Tremblay
Spares: Johnny Wilson, Duane Sutter
Ray Bourque (A)-Rob Blake
Kevin Lowe (A)-Adam Foote
George Owen-Bill Hajt
Grant Fuhr
Charlie Hodge
PP 1: Smith-Dionne-Leach-Bourque-Sakic
PP 2: Steen-Nilsson-Loob-Owen-Blake
PK 1: Poulin-Tremblay-Bourque-Foote
PK 2: Steen-Gottselig-Lowe-Hajt
Call-up squad:
Morris Lukowich-Jason Spezza-Russ Courtnall
Normand Rochefort-Mike Green
Earl Robertson
To my knowledge, there wasn't an all-star game between the two leagues, or a series between the best players from the PCHA/WCHL vs. the best from the NHA/NHL.
*Team defence could have some problems. Not a qualm with the blue-line. The blue-line has a nice blend of skill and defensive responsibility. But the Dionne and Nilsson lines will be out for a lot of goals against.
I think the world of Johnny Wilson. I'd actually have him in there ahead of Gottselig.Thanks GBC, your reviews are the cream of the ATD and I read them all just for the evaluations.
Just one question here: I'm also concerned about the defensive liabilities among the forwards, and I'm tempted to drop Bellows out of the lineup in favor of Wilson.
Lines would look like this:
Smith-Sakic-Aurie
Gottselig-Dionne-Leach
Steen-Nilsson-Loob
Wilson-Poulin-Tremblay
Gottselig's not a physical guy either, but at least he'd provide a bit of defensive conscious to the second unit.
My only major regret is taking Dionne over Kennedy. With the way the bottom six shaped out, Sakic/Kennedy would be the best two-way combo.
When a guy in the west coast leagues played a game in the 20s, what percentage of the players there were among "the best in the world." What percentage would have played in a consolidated league? Of course, it varied, but what percentage would it have been? And what percentage would it have been in, say, 1912? (I'll leave the war years out of it. While the game wasn't weakened like it was in the Second World War, there was an impact). Prior to the war, there were a lot more options out there, guys retained their amateur status longer. It really is hard to evaluate players. Looking at raw numbers is a fool's ploy, because the game had completely different rules. Even looking at top fives or top 10s is tough, because each player will react to different circumstances differently. A guy who was top two or three in points might not be after consolidation, because of the changes in the game caused by consolidation. Just like a guy who was top five in assists prior to 1929 might not be afterwards, because of how radically different the forward pass in the offensive zone made the game. (It also changed what teams were looking for in a player).But they were playing against the best in the world on a nightly basis. Most teams certainly had talent, and considering there weren't that many teams back then, certainly featured some of the best in the world at the time.
Relating the few number of teams, when they met for the cup, the teams facing off were likely loaded with talent, and would likely compete with, or beat, a team made up of the stars of the rest of their league. And in those matches, we know each team would give 100%- it was the cup on the line.
It didn't mean that much to the NHLers by the looks of things at first, but that soon changed. I think they could dig deep for motivation and win, with the big talent difference.
Syracuse Bulldogs
Coach: Scotty Bowman
Captain: Gordie Howe
Sweeney Shriner - Frank Boucher - Gordie Howe
Steve Shutt - Frank Frederickson - Mike Gartner
George Hay - Tommy Dunderdale - Lorne Carr
Al Secord - Dale Hunter - Mike Keane
Zdeno Chara - "Ching" Johnson
Lloyd Cook - Kevin Hatcher
Dave Burrows - Mathieu Schneider
Vladislav Tretiak
Mike Vernon
PP 1: Sweeney Shriner - Frank Boucher - Gordie Howe - Zdeno Chara - Lloyd Cook
PP 2: Steve Shutt - Frank Frederickson - Mike Gartner - Kevin Hatcher - Mathieu Schneider
PK 1: Dale Hunter - Mike Gartner - Zdeno Chara - Dave Burrows
PK 2: Gordie Howe - Mike Keane - Ching Johnson - Dave Burrows
Spares on roster:
Jim Roberts, Andre Lacroix, Larry Hillman
Spares for recall:
Don Edwards, Al Arbour, Kent Douglas, Claude Larose, Danny Grant, Lowell MacDonald
Hamilton Bettmans (Johnny Engine and Dreakmur)
Coach - Don Cherry
Assistant Coach - Roger Neilson
Vladimir Krutov - Mario Lemieux [A] - Hooley Smith [C]
Tommy Smith - Darryl Sittler [A] - Billy Boucher
Tommpy Phillips - Art Chapman - Blair Russel
Percy Galbraith - Red Berenson - Mush March
Valery Vasiliev [A] - Moose Johnson
Jan Suchy - Bert Corbeau
Dunc Munro - Red Dutton
Clint Benedict
Tom Paton
Spares: Corb Denneny and Jack Campbell
Minor League : Jim Riley - Clare McKerrow - Cully Wilson - Bobby Trapp - Jim McKenny - Nicklas Backstrom
Powerplay
Unit #1: Vladimir Krutov - Mario Lemieux - Hooley Smith - Jan Suchy - Bert Corbeau
Unit #2: Tommy Smith - Darryl Sittler - Tommy Phillips - Valery Vasiliev - Moose Johnson
Penalty Kill
Unit #1: Hooley Smith - Tommy Phillips - Valery Vasiliev - Moose Johnson
Unit #2: Art Chapman - Blair Russel - Dunc Munro - Red Dutton
Unit #3: Red Berenson - Percy Galbraith
Shut-down Unit: Tommy Phillips - Art Chapman - Blair Russel - Valery Vasiliev - Moose Johnson
When a guy in the west coast leagues played a game in the 20s, what percentage of the players there were among "the best in the world." What percentage would have played in a consolidated league? Of course, it varied, but what percentage would it have been? And what percentage would it have been in, say, 1912? (I'll leave the war years out of it. While the game wasn't weakened like it was in the Second World War, there was an impact). Prior to the war, there were a lot more options out there, guys retained their amateur status longer. It really is hard to evaluate players. Looking at raw numbers is a fool's ploy, because the game had completely different rules. Even looking at top fives or top 10s is tough, because each player will react to different circumstances differently. A guy who was top two or three in points might not be after consolidation, because of the changes in the game caused by consolidation. Just like a guy who was top five in assists prior to 1929 might not be afterwards, because of how radically different the forward pass in the offensive zone made the game. (It also changed what teams were looking for in a player).
I view consolidation as one of the most significant events in hockey history. Right up there with the NHL/WHA merger, and behind the expansion in 67. Once consolidation happened, for the first time, you could look at a hockey league and say "the best players in the world are in one league." Before there were options. After consolidation, there wasn't.