Confirmed with Link: ALL-Star Micheal Leighton signed

[Anton Babchuk]

Alex "Zach Fucale" Nedeljkovic: 3-7, 3.48GAA and 0.882SV%
Michael Leighton: 6-2-1, 1.66GAA and .937SV%

 

[CandyCanes]

Alex "Zach Fucale" Nedeljkovic: 3-7, 3.48GAA and 0.882SV%
Michael Leighton: 6-2-1, 1.66GAA and .937SV%

What's annoying is they have Altshuller riding the bench behind him right now too. Kinda weird that they are trying their damn hardest to turn Ned around giving him every start, but not giving two craps about Altshuller. Altshuller had a pretty good start in Florida this season before getting called up to Charlotte, and he had that pretty solid run last year. Not sure why the Hurricanes are playing favorites, Altshuller could be the better goalie prospect but they seem so sold on Ned???

 

[MinJaBen]

What's annoying is they have Altshuller riding the bench behind him right now too. Kinda weird that they are trying their damn hardest to turn Ned around giving him every start, but not giving two craps about Altshuller. Altshuller had a pretty good start in Florida this season before getting called up to Charlotte, and he had that pretty solid run last year. Not sure why the Hurricanes are playing favorites, Altshuller could be the better goalie prospect but they seem so sold on Ned???

This infatuation with Ned is a problem. If you take away his U20 WJC performance, he has shown nothing more than an average level of play. And yet, we are making decisions at the NHL level based on his "imminent" arrival to the team. It is mind boggling. I'm hoping Booth continues his good play and improvement and at least fills the whole that Ned's failure is looking to be at this point.

 

[GoldiFox]

This is just ridiculous at this point. "Playing favorites", "Canes' infatuation", "Ned's failure".

Guys... It's 10 games into the Pro career of a smaller sized goalie who just came from the OHL. He is clearly having a rougher time than expected in adjusting but you are being silly if you think the Canes are throwing their recent 2nd round pick into the rubbish bin after 10 games. The Canes aren't blindly playing favorites or infatuated with a failing project, there are millions of dollars in salary being paid to people to make these decisions and they don't rely on HockeyDB stats to make them.

The vast majority of goalies take years to develop at the Pro level. Maybe Ned will adjust, maybe he won't, but I guarantee you his leash is much, much longer than 10 games. There is a reason the Checkers continue to play him despite early struggles and it isn't blind favoritism.

 

[MinJaBen]

Yes, it is early into his career. And I would hope that they are patient with him. But when NHL goaltender decisions are "justified" by management and coaches with the use of a prospects name that has yet to play a pro game, I think the terms "playing favorites" and "infatuation" are justified, especially given his average at best performance at levels below the AHL. Does he have documented hot streaks to give people hope? Sure, but he also has documented levels of mediocre play as well. It may be to soon to label him a "failure", but it is not too early to consider the possibility of that happening.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is just ridiculous at this point. "Playing favorites", "Canes' infatuation", "Ned's failure".

Guys... It's 10 games into the Pro career of a smaller sized goalie who just came from the OHL. He is clearly having a rougher time than expected in adjusting but you are being silly if you think the Canes are throwing their recent 2nd round pick into the rubbish bin after 10 games. The Canes aren't blindly playing favorites or infatuated with a failing project, there are millions of dollars in salary being paid to people to make these decisions and they don't rely on HockeyDB stats to make them.

The vast majority of goalies take years to develop at the Pro level. Maybe Ned will adjust, maybe he won't, but I guarantee you his leash is much, much longer than 10 games. There is a reason the Checkers continue to play him despite early struggles and it isn't blind favoritism.

I agree, but I'll admit the shine has come off of Ned a bit. Smaller goalies are rare in the NHL and there isn't a lot of conventional wisdom behind anointing one of them your "goalie of the future" if he's not conspicuously dominant.

The fact that he hasn't yet shown an ability to hold his own against men is concerning. Maybe he eventually gets to that point, but what is he showing that justifies sitting around for 3-4 years waiting for the smallest goalie in the NHL to develop? It would seem that there are better opportunities out there, namely the bona fide NHL starters who are known to be on the market.

I'm not saying throw the bum out at age 20, but given his performance over the past couple of years I think it's appropriate to start asking those questions.

 

[GoldiFox]

I agree, but I'll admit the shine has come off of Ned a bit. Smaller goalies are rare in the NHL and there isn't a lot of conventional wisdom behind anointing one of them your "goalie of the future" if he's not conspicuously dominant.

The fact that he hasn't yet shown an ability to hold his own against men is concerning. Maybe he eventually gets to that point, but what is he showing that justifies sitting around for 3-4 years waiting for the smallest goalie in the NHL to develop? It would seem that there are better opportunities out there, namely the bona fide NHL starters who are known to be on the market.

I'm not saying throw the bum out at age 20, but given his performance over the past couple of years I think it's appropriate to start asking those questions.

Goalies on the whole are voodoo. I don't think any NHL team should sit around waiting for one to develop, the Canes should bring in a guy like Fleury, Bishop, Varlamov, etc. If Ned eventually develops into a starter - great. If he doesn't, on to the next project (Booth, LaFontaine, whoever).

I just don't think that the Checkers are "favoring" Ned over Altshuller. I think they legitimately believe he is currently or will soon develop into a better goalie. This isn't too big of a feat considering Altshuller was a big disappointment at the end of last year in the AHL. Coaches and decision makers watched an entire training camp and every practice/game since. They get paid lots of money to make these decisions, have much more comprehensive knowledge than anyone on this board, and they picked Ned.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I have wondered how much decision making at the AHL for the Canes defers to winning, and how much defers to development for the big club. Ned vs. Altshuller is the example right now.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I have no problem with them giving Ned lots of games even while he's struggling. Outside of a super unsustainable hot start last year, Altshuller got hammered about like this last year. It looks like Altshuller started last year 10-1-1 with a 1.71 and a .941 and finished with 10-10-5 with a 2.81 and a .905. That's ugly. So it's not like they haven't gotten plenty of looks at Altshuller to this point.

Granted, I don't have all the faith in the world in Ned. I was saying it was dumb to sign Ward as a two year stop gap hoping that Ned would be ready. I thought it would be better to pursue better goalie options and cross the Ned or other goalie bridge if and when it ever comes. But I agree with AMO completely.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I just don't think that the Checkers are "favoring" Ned over Altshuller. I think they legitimately believe he is currently or will soon develop into a better goalie. This isn't too big of a feat considering Altshuller was a big disappointment at the end of last year in the AHL. Coaches and decision makers watched an entire training camp and every practice/game since. They get paid lots of money to make these decisions, have much more comprehensive knowledge than anyone on this board, and they picked Ned.

I do agree with you on this. Neither of these guys has grabbed the reins to the point that they should consider themselves screwed-over if they don't get regular starts.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

i dont like ned that much

granted, never really seen him play

i just think that small goalies dont have much of a place in the nhl anymore, everything is trending so much towards covering large portions of the net and less on athleticism and reflexes

we are buying up goalie ping pong balls, hoping one of them pops up. if i could only go with one, i think id take booth, but the whole thing is just a weird crapshoot

 

[Anton Babchuk]

This is just ridiculous at this point. "Playing favorites", "Canes' infatuation", "Ned's failure".

Guys... It's 10 games into the Pro career of a smaller sized goalie who just came from the OHL. He is clearly having a rougher time than expected in adjusting but you are being silly if you think the Canes are throwing their recent 2nd round pick into the rubbish bin after 10 games.

Pretty sure I was expecting it (see: this thread). A goalie who had a .907sv% (and .903sv% in the playoffs) over the course of a full OHL season at the age of 19 is probably going to struggle in the AHL. You chose to ignore those stats and hilariously accused me of "cherrypicking" when it was actually you who cherrypicked a couple good playoff series and his WJC performance, ignoring the fact that he had a pedestrian regular season and got obliterated in the finals against London.

The vast majority of goalies take years to develop at the Pro level. Maybe Ned will adjust, maybe he won't, but I guarantee you his leash is much, much longer than 10 games. There is a reason the Checkers continue to play him despite early struggles and it isn't blind favoritism.

I agree 100% with this. Which is why it's absurd to make decisions around this team's goaltending around him. He's nowhere near a sure thing.

The Canes aren't blindly playing favorites or infatuated with a failing project, there are millions of dollars in salary being paid to people to make these decisions and they don't rely on HockeyDB stats to make them.

Maybe you should check out HockeyDB sometime. It would have told you that Leighton has been a quality AHL goalie for years, with at least .918sv% or better in seven straight AHL seasons (and a .933sv% in the KHL). It would have also told you that Nedeljkovic had a .907sv% in a vastly inferior league. You could have used these sets of facts to figure out that Nedelkjovic would probably be worse by a fair margin. It's what I did, but apparently looking at stats over huge sample sizes is now "cherrypicking."

 

[tarheelhockey]

I just worry that we really don't have time to play the lottery with goalie prospects. That's the sort of thing you do in the background while things are humming along at the NHL level... not when you're a Cam Ward hip injury away from literally not having any NHL-level goalies left on your roster.

We're probably 3-5 years out from someone like Ned, Altshuller or Booth developing into a legitimate NHL level starter (if they ever do). That's 3-5 years which are supposed to be the prime years for a core that includes our Big 3 defensemen, a veteran-but-not-decrepit forward core built around Skinner/Staal/Rask, and Gauthier having the short peak that one expects from a power forward. And by the end of that timeframe, I don't think anyone expects Ward to still be a viable option as a placeholder. Basically, we don't have time for a long development curve. It doesn't fit the schedule.

The immediate future HAS to involve acquiring a starter-level goalie via trade or UFA signing, which usually comes with a commitment along the lines of that same 3-5 year range. If one of the prospects goes supernova in the meantime, great, but I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that we missed our window for establishing a goalie pipeline in this rebuild.

 

[GoldiFox]

Pretty sure I was expecting it (see: this thread). A goalie who had a .907sv% (and .903sv% in the playoffs) over the course of a full OHL season at the age of 19 is probably going to struggle in the AHL. You chose to ignore those stats and hilariously accused me of "cherrypicking" when it was actually you who cherrypicked a couple good playoff series and his WJC performance, ignoring the fact that he had a pedestrian regular season and got obliterated in the finals against London.

I agree 100% with this. Which is why it's absurd to make decisions around this team's goaltending around him. He's nowhere near a sure thing.

Maybe you should check out HockeyDB sometime. It would have told you that Leighton has been a quality AHL goalie for years, with at least .918sv% or better in seven straight AHL seasons (and a .933sv% in the KHL). It would have also told you that Nedeljkovic had a .907sv% in a vastly inferior league. You could have used these sets of facts to figure out that Nedelkjovic would probably be worse by a fair margin. It's what I did, but apparently looking at stats over huge sample sizes is now "cherrypicking."

Struggling compared to what I expected is what I meant, I have no problem admitting it. I didn't cherry pick "a couple" Playoff series. I looked at the entirety of his Playoff minus the London series. If you followed the CHL at all last year you would know that London obliterated every single opponent they faced. They were one of the best Junior teams ever constructed.

I already went over the absurdity of comparing OHL SV% to AHL SV% with you. It's apples to oranges. They are two completely different leagues with significant differences in scoring rates, parity from team-to-team, personnel construction, and star power. All of my arguments regarding your previous analysis still stand. Coming back 10 Pro games later to say "Told you so" is asanine. The fact that Ned won the AHL job over Altshuller and continues to be started over Altshuller despite Ned's early struggles backs that.

The real answer is that the Canes need to make Ben Bishop a very rich man. I've said it for a while. If he doesn't want to play for the Canes (likely), then they need to try like hell to trade for Fleury, Varlamov, or another established starter. Canes can't afford not to bring in an established starter that can win games right now. Team interest is dwindling by the game and they have almost no good will left.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Ben Bishop is 30 and having a terrible year on a good team. Why on earth would anyone overpay for him. We also don't really have an appreciation for how a guy his size might age in goal. Maybe he will play until 40, or maybe he washes out in 2 years. Hell he's older than Cam was when **** started going sideways.

 

[GoldiFox]

Ben Bishop is 30 and having a terrible year on a good team. Why on earth would anyone overpay for him. We also don't really have an appreciation for how a guy his size might age in goal. Maybe he will play until 40, or maybe he washes out in 2 years. Hell he's older than Cam was when **** started going sideways.

Canes would have to overpay to bring in any high profile UFA, I think that is an easy one. Bishop has been a top-10 (arguably top-5) goalie for the past 3 years straight.

There is risk an any UFA deal. His age is a concern, but like RBs in the NFL I think wear-and-tear for goalies is somewhat associated with usage (completely arguable point, JMO). Bishop has played ~270 games since his NAHL/College years. Cam Ward has played closer to 600 since his days in junior.

 

[tarheelhockey]

One possible strategy with Bishop is that we could dramatically overpay on a short-term contract. Like, $8M for three years or something. Maybe he bites on a huge payday up front, with the possibility that it goes well and he still gets a substantial twilight contract at 33.

It's not like we're not the lowest payroll in the league by a large margin. We have to spend on something just to make the floor each year.

 

[geehaad]

Guys...

I believe the word you're looking for here is "Gang,".

 

[CalUK]

Honestly, I don't think the Canes should go for someone like Bishop who'll cost them alot. The Canes need to see how Ned plays out, and decide whether its worth trading for goalie who is closer to NHL ready (and overshadowed by a top goalie that doesn't look like they're giving up no.1 slot any time soon) but young enough to be a long term solution. It might be worth trading one of the young D (and possibly Ned to help get the move) for this as we all know, its important to have a good goalie solution (and hopefully playoffs sooner rather than later).

Leighton I have been impressed with. Its only been two games, but I he's been better in those two than Lack has.

 

[Dishface]

Honestly, I don't think the Canes should go for someone like Bishop who'll cost them alot. The Canes need to see how Ned plays out, and decide whether its worth trading for goalie who is closer to NHL ready (and overshadowed by a top goalie that doesn't look like they're giving up no.1 slot any time soon) but young enough to be a long term solution. It might be worth trading one of the young D (and possibly Ned to help get the move) for this as we all know, its important to have a good goalie solution (and hopefully playoffs sooner rather than later).

Leighton I have been impressed with. Its only been two games, but I he's been better in those two than Lack has.

I'd rather trade our Dmen for a scoring forward. As much as I would like Bishop, it'll cost too much and he isn't signed long term. If Ward can keep his play up, ride him out till Booth or Needaspellcheck is ready.

 

[NotOpie]

This is just ridiculous at this point. "Playing favorites", "Canes' infatuation", "Ned's failure".

Guys... It's 10 games into the Pro career of a smaller sized goalie who just came from the OHL. He is clearly having a rougher time than expected in adjusting but you are being silly if you think the Canes are throwing their recent 2nd round pick into the rubbish bin after 10 games. The Canes aren't blindly playing favorites or infatuated with a failing project, there are millions of dollars in salary being paid to people to make these decisions and they don't rely on HockeyDB stats to make them.

The vast majority of goalies take years to develop at the Pro level. Maybe Ned will adjust, maybe he won't, but I guarantee you his leash is much, much longer than 10 games. There is a reason the Checkers continue to play him despite early struggles and it isn't blind favoritism.

In my under-educated opinion, there was a logical development path for our goalies that always included finding a bit of a stop gap at both the AHL and NHL level. Ronnie put the Cam/Eddie tandem in at the NHL level to do just that, anticipating that one or both of them would have a bit of a bounce back year this season and he's been rewarded by a good Ward showing in November and now into December.

At the AHL level Leighton is/was the stop gap veteran minder brought in to help mentor a young goalie. My challenge is it was the wrong guy. All along I felt that Nedeljkovic should have started his pro career against the lesser competition in the ECHL, gain confidence while seeing a marginal increase in skill. Get his legs under him...maybe even for a full season. That would have slotted Altshuller in as the back up in Charlotte. Fast forward a year assuming something of a straight line development curve and Altshuller is the starter in Charlotte, Ned's comes in as his back up. Ideally Altshuller then moves to the NHL the following year in a back up role to one of the NHL starters. Neds gets big minutes as the starter in Charlotte. That's a very typical 3 year progression for both tenders. Maybe one leap frogs the other or proves to be more reliable, but you bring them both along, adding games and quality of competition.

In the end you're still going to have to augment at the NHL level until one of those youngsters is ready.

I have no problem with them giving Ned lots of games even while he's struggling. Outside of a super unsustainable hot start last year, Altshuller got hammered about like this last year. It looks like Altshuller started last year 10-1-1 with a 1.71 and a .941 and finished with 10-10-5 with a 2.81 and a .905. That's ugly. So it's not like they haven't gotten plenty of looks at Altshuller to this point.

Granted, I don't have all the faith in the world in Ned. I was saying it was dumb to sign Ward as a two year stop gap hoping that Ned would be ready. I thought it would be better to pursue better goalie options and cross the Ned or other goalie bridge if and when it ever comes. But I agree with AMO completely.

Keep in mind that when Altshuller's hot streak came to an end last season, Charlotte's blueline was decimated by injury. I'm not saying that was the cause, but to ignore that as a contributing factor is a mistake as well. He then lost confidence and things spiraled from there.

I'd rather trade our Dmen for a scoring forward. As much as I would like Bishop, it'll cost too much and he isn't signed long term. If Ward can keep his play up, ride him out till Booth or Needaspellcheck is ready.

The good news is that the 3 tender picks from the last couple of seasons all look like good gambles. Yes, they are still gambles and need some time, but given the performance of our near-term goalie pipeline, we will almost certainly need another stop gap option. Those are difficult at best and often no better than the status quo.

 

[WreckingCrew]

In my under-educated opinion, there was a logical development path for our goalies that always included finding a bit of a stop gap at both the AHL and NHL level. Ronnie put the Cam/Eddie tandem in at the NHL level to do just that, anticipating that one or both of them would have a bit of a bounce back year this season and he's been rewarded by a good Ward showing in November and now into December.

At the AHL level Leighton is/was the stop gap veteran minder brought in to help mentor a young goalie. My challenge is it was the wrong guy. All along I felt that Nedeljkovic should have started his pro career against the lesser competition in the ECHL, gain confidence while seeing a marginal increase in skill. Get his legs under him...maybe even for a full season. That would have slotted Altshuller in as the back up in Charlotte. Fast forward a year assuming something of a straight line development curve and Altshuller is the starter in Charlotte, Ned's comes in as his back up. Ideally Altshuller then moves to the NHL the following year in a back up role to one of the NHL starters. Neds gets big minutes as the starter in Charlotte. That's a very typical 3 year progression for both tenders. Maybe one leap frogs the other or proves to be more reliable, but you bring them both along, adding games and quality of competition.

In the end you're still going to have to augment at the NHL level until one of those youngsters is ready.



Keep in mind that when Altshuller's hot streak came to an end last season, Charlotte's blueline was decimated by injury. I'm not saying that was the cause, but to ignore that as a contributing factor is a mistake as well. He then lost confidence and things spiraled from there.



The good news is that the 3 tender picks from the last couple of seasons all look like good gambles. Yes, they are still gambles and need some time, but given the performance of our near-term goalie pipeline, we will almost certainly need another stop gap option. Those are difficult at best and often no better than the status quo.

This is basically what I've been thinking 100%. Having watched Charlotte's downward spiral at the end of last season, I can say Alternator was absolutely left out to dry towards the end of the season, he had no help at all. He was absolutely the reason we stayed in some of those games and didn't get blown out by 5 goals, he played well but the whole team imploded.

I saw the same path you did, give Ned tons of starts in the ECHL against lesser competition to get him in a groove, get him some games, get him some experience, and allow him to work on certain aspects of his game (positioning, rebound control, puck-handling, managing the crease, etc) where he doesn't have to fear a constant blowout. Meanwhile, Alty gets to swap some games with Leighton as a mentor, either as a backup or starter depending on his play. If Ned lights up the ECHL, he gets some AHL games while Leighton mentors from the bench. Instead he's getting ripped to shreds and playing < 50% of games, I don't see how that could be helping his development. After a rough start himself, Alty is doing great in the ECHL and had some decent AHL showings, it's time to swap them for a bit

 

[Joe McGrath]

The thing about the ECHL is that you don't have any control over playing time or training. If the organization thinks Ned is a blue chip prospect there isn't a chance in hell they aren't keeping him with their coaches.

 

[NotOpie]

The thing about the ECHL is that you don't have any control over playing time or training. If the organization thinks Ned is a blue chip prospect there isn't a chance in hell they aren't keeping him with their coaches.

Doesn't Peter Karmanos own the Everblades?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Doesn't Peter Karmanos own the Everblades?

He's had them up for sale for a few years with no luck. Was able t sell the Plymouth whalers, though.

Carolina doesn't share Florida with anyone so our guys will get the playing time they deserve there.