All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part VII - The Steals Weren't There

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Okay crazy idea i did on cap friendly so I’ll bounce it here:
What if we bought out Staal this off-season and then re-signed him to a 3 x 2 million aav deal?

Staal is sticking around past this season, we know that. Cap for next year will be a little tight. I would think we would give Staal a 2 x 2 million deal after this one was over.

We basically delay 2 million of his cap hit to the following year and he gets paid the same amount of money. 2 million isn’t a ton but it could be the difference that gives 3 solid pairings on D and 3 solid offensive lines from the get go.

We have a ton of cap flexibility in 23-24 with Morrow, Drury, Rees, Seeley, Drury, and Jarvis all ELCers on the roster.

 

[htdoc]

Can't buy out the player and then sign him again in the same season

 

[WreckingCrew]

Okay crazy idea i did on cap friendly so I’ll bounce it here:
What if we bought out Staal this off-season and then re-signed him to a 3 x 2 million aav deal?

Staal is sticking around past this season, we know that. Cap for next year will be a little tight. I would think we would give Staal a 2 x 2 million deal after this one was over.

We basically delay 2 million of his cap hit to the following year and he gets paid the same amount of money. 2 million isn’t a ton but it could be the difference that gives 3 solid pairings on D and 3 solid offensive lines from the get go.

We have a ton of cap flexibility in 23-24 with Morrow, Drury, Rees, Seeley, Drury, and Jarvis all ELCers on the roster.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can sign a guy for like a year after you buy him out

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The term crosses the line of cap circumvention, imo. Staal is not a player on the verge of retirement like Orpik, who was traded, bought out and then signed back by Washington to just a 1 year deal. Nor is he a marginal NHLer like Stone, who was bought out by Calgary and signed back a month later again to just a 1 year deal. This would be a captain of the team signing a multi-year deal.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can sign a guy for like a year after you buy him out

Can't buy out the player and then sign him again in the same season

That restriction was applicable to compliance buyouts, not the regular type. See Michael Stone 2019 for a buyout and sign back scenario.

 

[spockBokk]

Klingberg on a plane to Raleigh…



(not really)

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The term crosses the line of cap circumvention, imo. Staal is not a player on the verge of retirement like Orpik, who was traded, bought out and then signed back by Washington to just a 1 year deal. Nor is he a marginal NHLer like Stone, who was bought out by Calgary and signed back a month later again to just a 1 year deal. This would be a captain of the team signing a multi-year deal.





That restriction was applicable to compliance buyouts, not the regular type. See Michael Stone 2019 for a buyout and sign back scenario.

I agree it is borderline cap circumventing. In the end GMs are paid to bend the rules to make it benefit the team to win the most. My wild idea would do that. If Kucherov can practice for a month and Eichel needs 1-2 months more after initially practicing for 2 teams with epic levels of cap issues, why can’t the Canes dabble in the cap issue circumvention?

 

[Lempo]

why can’t the Canes dabble in the cap issue circumvention?

 

[bleedgreen]

It's a tradeoff, yes he's much better offensively but I think he's quite a bit of a drop off defensively. Plus his offense would have to be underutilized here with TDA holding down PP1. Skjei has been pretty under the radar this year but he's been holding down the fort defensively on that 2nd pair with Pesce struggling a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to add Chychrun. But not at the expense of Skjei and Morrow plus a 1st. I just don't see the point in trading current core pieces for a slight upgrade, if we go for him we should be adding him to our roster not just swapping him out for someone like Skjei. So it'd have to be picks/prospects for me to like it. Necas, Jarvis off the table and I'd strongly prefer to hold onto Morrow but if we could get Chychrun for Morrow + other picks/prospects I would consider it. I really doubt we can pull it off though, other teams will offer more.



Fair point. Still not enough of a benefit in my opinion to give up Skjei and Morrow. Skjei and a 1st and like Bokk or something? Maybe but still wouldn't love it, I'm really high on Skjei admittedly.

I don’t think he’s a drop off at all defensively, and could easily be better than Skjei defensively but can agree to disagree.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

There was an ease that Lidstrom covered the d zone that is an awful huge compliment to Slavin to be compared to... not sure Slavin is anywhere near as smooth or effortless looking and I am a huuuuuuge Slavin fan... Lidstrom could be physical but it neve looked like he was exerting himself that much. He could cover ice so effortlessly in his prime that you wondered how the heck he got to point b from point a when it looked like he barely took a step/stride...

I'm sure you've seen it, but as a reminder, this highlight reel is from one game against McDavid.

 

[htdoc]

I guess I need to be more clear since it appears I was somehow slighting Slavin with my comments...

That was not my intention at all...

The way Slavin uses his stick and his smoothness at covering g things can be seen stylistically to be similar.

I think Slavin is a Norris trophy candidate. I think he is the MVP of our team. I think he is our best d man and he is incredibly under appreciated what he can do. If he put up more points he would be fawned over constantly by the media types that are blinded by a player that can put up points moreso than ability to play the position from a d perspective.

As much as I think Slavin is a freaking amazing player and should be recognized for what he brings to our team, as much as he likely will have a career that mimics a lot of what Lidstrom meant to the wings, he hasn't put up 20 years of the kind of things Lidstrom did... he may get there, but he's not quite there yet and in some ways may never get there..

Lidstrom had the d game and the o game. He had it all.. he could shoot to tip he could shoot to pass he could shoot to score.. slavin likely will never put up the kind of nu.bers that Lidstrom put up year after year...

There's a reason he was known as the perfect human... Slavin is smooth as silk in the d zone and does amazing things with his stick. I've loved that Slavin has planted a few guys and rocked them this season... but as amazing as I think Slavin is, he isn't Lidstrom and what Lidstrom did for 2 decades... Slavin can make a stick play or a block look easy... but I can remember so many times Lidstrom would be on a 3 on 1 against and he managed to cover both sides of the ice to make the pass difficult and then he still managed to get from one dot to the other dot and block the shot or steal the puck away such that the team on the 3 on 1 didn't even get a shot... and how the heck he covered so much ice without seemingly even taking a stride was insane. He just looked soooooo smooth be was on a different level... and this was in an age of clutch and grab and clunky slower hockey unlike today... part of the comparison is hard given the vastly different eras of hockey... but to see him just never seem to get beat... I honestly can't remember Lidstrom getting beat any time I ever watched him. I've seen Slavin get beat as well as do something stupid amazing with breaking up a play with his stick... maybe I just didn't watch enough wings games closely enough to see the bad and am only remembering the good of Lidstrom.. he was just so unflappable and always seemed to get to the spot he needed to get to...


I look forward to seeing Slavin play for as long as he can and maybe in another 10 years it will be enough highlights to make it a much closer comparison .. I just try not to compare player to player or in this case, awesome current player to an absolute legend of the game..

I appreciate if others see it differently and have a different opinion. Wont argue that. Just don't want people thinking I don't know how awesome Slavin is and how lucky we are to have him on our team and watch him be a linchpin to our success every night..

 

[mikeyfan]

When you look at Hockey Reference and compare Lidstrom to Slavin the one stat that stood out to me was Defensive Points Share. After 6 full seasons, both at the age of 26, Lidstrom was at 30.2, Slavin at 29.4. So Defensively Slavin is contributing about the same defensive wise as Lidstrom

 

[mikeyfan]

Question Rods last year as a player the “C” was given to Staal. Would Rod consider taking the “C” from Jordon next season and giving it to Aho, Staal and Slavin with the “A” and Martinook back to just a player

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Question Rods last year as a player the “C” was given to Staal. Would Rod consider taking the “C” from Jordon next season and giving it to Aho, Staal and Slavin with the “A” and Martinook back to just a player

The letters are given to the players that everyone in that room agrees are the leaders. Martinook has been that for our entire period of success even though he's technically a 4th liner, and that's not changing until he leaves/retires.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Question Rods last year as a player the “C” was given to Staal. Would Rod consider taking the “C” from Jordon next season and giving it to Aho, Staal and Slavin with the “A” and Martinook back to just a player

My theory has always been that Rod was pissed about how all of that went down and will give Staal a lot more rope than he himself was given.

 

[mikeyfan]

My theory has always been that Rod was pissed about how all of that went down and will give Staal a lot more rope than he himself was given.

I have thought that too, however, if you go by on ice leadership, it appears Aho has the heartbeat of the team better than Jordon. Of course, I don’t know how that translates into the locker room

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

5 NHL players who were stripped of their captaincy - Article - BARDOWN

Eichel was a function of an organizational dispute and Linden giving up the captaincy is a dubious narrative. The common theme among the others is a team failing to meet expectations and management looking to push a button.

It's not crazy to think that something like that could go down, I guess. It probably would only come after several seasons of not progressing in the playoffs. Brind'Amour isn't going anywhere. What does replacing Waddell actually accomplish? They turnover the roster regularly in the normal course of business. Those are the most common shakeup moves organizations make.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

As long as Jordan is on the roster, he's the Captain. Period. I think with his play this year however there's an increasingly likely chance of him not being on the roster after next year. I do think Aho will be our next Captain once Jordan is gone. But it could be several years, definitely not next year unless Jordo unexpectedly retires or is traded (near 0% chance of the latter).

 

[Ole Gil]

I'd add Jordan's play hasn't been that bad. 2.9 s% is a big time fluke.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I'd add Jordan's play hasn't been that bad. 2.9 s% is a big time fluke.

Until you watch his shot selection and then 2.9% seems like he must have scored a fluke

 

[Svechhammer]

Until you watch his shot selection and then 2.9% seems like he must have scored a fluke

I was joking last night that someone is going to have to just start launching shots as his ass hoping for a deflection, for him to get back on the scoresheet.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

As long as Jordan is on the roster, he's the Captain. Period. I think with his play this year however there's an increasingly likely chance of him not being on the roster after next year. I do think Aho will be our next Captain once Jordan is gone. But it could be several years, definitely not next year unless Jordo unexpectedly retires or is traded (near 0% chance of the latter).

I think that Slavin is the likely successor to Staal for the C spot, not Aho. He's had the alternate letter for longer and is older than Aho by a few years. This group is incredibly deep and rooted, to the point that they probably give the captaincy via attrition/next man up.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Meh, I've been generally happy with Staal in the past given his defensive play and scoring at a 45-50 pace for the most part. You can't deny that he's struggling offensively this year though.

That said. He's not on the PP, he's playing with Fast and Lorentz and the team is still one of the top teams in the NHL with him not contributing offense.

Where the team needs him to show up is the playoffs. Hopefully that's where he does.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I think that Slavin is the likely successor to Staal for the C spot, not Aho. He's had the alternate letter for longer and is older than Aho by a few years. This group is incredibly deep and rooted, to the point that they probably give the captaincy via attrition/next man up.

Certainly possible I tend to think the players would pick Aho though just since he's more fiery and vocal. Slavin fits better as an A. Just my opinion, and we won't actually know anything until they announce it.