All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Gigantor The Goalie]

It's weird looking at our goaltending and thinking there are a lot of questions there at a glance. We have Varlamov, Pickard, Berra, Martin and Papjach. As far as goaltending pipelines go we are in pretty good shape. In fact I wrote about the importance of a goaltending pipeline earlier this year. Right now we're sitting on a near ideal goaltending pipeline...that is about to be blown up in our faces.

Could be a good thing...could be a bad thing. All I'll say is that the Avalanche goaltending situation is almost as big of a question it was after the 2010/2011 season when we ended with a tandem of Elliott/Budaj.

Topics/Questions

The Expansion Draft Effect

With the expansion rules being finalized it's all but confirmed we're going to lose either Varlamov or Pickard. The most intelligent decision is getting assets for one of them before losing them for free in the expansion draft. So with that line of thinking that leads us to some factors to consider.

Trade Return. Which goalie will bring the biggest return? We got Varlamov for a 1st+2nd and that was based on potential. It's not wrong to think we could possibly get more or at least a biggish return. Pickard can conceivably receive what Martin Jones got in the Boston/San Jose trade due to similarities in age, stats, etc.

Level of play. Consistency is important to any player and especially goalies. The question the Avalanche organization will be asking themselves right now is which goalie can maintain NHL winning levels of play? We know what Varlamov is capable of despite the past season. We've seen a glimpse of what Pickard can do but he's never played a full NHL season before so it will be a gamble with him in net.

Money. Varlamov's contract is set in stone for the most part. Pickard is cheaper now and will be cheaper in the future unless he becomes Roylike.

The Berra Factor

If we can come to a reasonable conclusion that we'll be saying goodbye to one of Varly/Pickard then there's the question of a back-up. Before the soccer injury, Berra was a more then capable back-up who unfortunately wore out a bit before Varly came back. It was to be expected though. Do the Avalanche have faith in Berra as a back-up at the NHL level? Does the decision of who the Avs keep between Varly/Picks affect Berra?

The AHL

Yay! More to worry about at the AHL level. As if people aren't more stressed out about replacing Hishon, Everberg, Rendulic, Smith and Noreau (+others), the absence of Will combined with the graduation of Spencer Martin will make the Avalanche come to an interesting decision.

Believe it or not, Spencer Martin is ready for a platoon role at the AHL level at least. It's now up to the Avs to find a goalie that will not only fit with San Antonio but that goalie needs to understand that he's there as a mentor as well. To get to that level and be shown up by a younger, better goalie is hard to deal with. If we can find the NHL/AHL version of Charline Labonte I will be very happy.

The ECHL

The ECHL? Pssh who cares about the ECHL? Anyone who understands the goaltending pipeline and development will. The Avalanche need to look in to bringing either another Roman Will type goalie or an overager like Chase Marchand. It's important to give goalies a chance that have been passed over earlier. A goalie's mental game might have matured in the recent years and the ECHL is a good step to allowing goalies the chance to show what they have to offer.

The Draft

Last but not least, the draft. With six draft picks as of this post for the upcoming draft, the Avalanche will only take one goalie. Question is which goalies to target and in which rounds. Do the Avalanche go with another Spencer Martin type in the 3rd round or go with a European in the later rounds? Or is there a goalie they like that no one has really noticed.

There are a lot of goalies in this draft and to have to choose one that will work out is a difficult task. This pick is very important to the Avalanche goaltending pipeline. We're going to have a hole in a season or two due to Max Papjach more then likely not being good enough to be worth a contract when the time comes.

PS. Aittokallio isn't coming back. He lost the battle to Pickard, he's not willing to do the same thing with Martin.

Click to read more...

 

[UncleRisto]

Let's trade Varly, y'alls.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I'm on the "trade the asset while its value is the highest" train. Unfortunately Varly's value isn't the highest it's ever been, but we will gain more by trading him and trading gets more difficult as time wears on. Trade Varly, sign Ward to 1-2 yrs, and go with Pickard/Ward. Get Berra off this team or start him in the AHL with Martin

 

[henchman21]

I think it all hinges on Varly and the decision there. The organization has made it pretty clear that they love Pickard. He has done more interviews and gotten more hype than any goalie over the past couple seasons. The organization pimps him at every corner. He is also the goalie that I think the Avs would be nuts to give up on.

Expansion Draft - I think it matters, but only slightly. What I mean by that is if they are at all thinking about cutting ties with Varly, it gives an extra little push. If they are not ready for that, I think they will take their chances and try to figure it out next summer. The return won't be as good and everybody knows it, but I think they'd take that risk.

Varlamov - I can see this going either way. His name has been out there, but the Avs shouldn't just give him up for peanuts (I don't think that would be the case). Next season has to be make or break though if he sticks. He can't come back and have groin issues, nor can he be as inconsistent. If he is moved... the Avs will need to bring in a Ward/Reimer type.

Pickard - He is the goalie I think we know will be on the roster. Sakic said it last fall even. He earned the backup job, and has been excellent. His competitive edge is the best out of the group IMO, and I think that says something considering Varly's.

Berra - If he is willing, I see him in the AHL.... that is a big question though. He may want to go back to Switzerland and I wouldn't blame him a bit. As a #3, the Avs could do a hell of a lot worse and if Varly is around you need a solid #3.

Martin - He will get his platoon job in the AHL and he is ready for it. He is the next big prospect in this area for the Avs, he should be given every opportunity to develop. If Berra doesn't want to play in the AHL, he will need a mentor.... somebody like Aaron Dell, Brad Thiessen, Yann Danis, etc.

ECHL - I wouldn't mind them signing a project here. College UFA, random Euro (Godla, Vay, etc), CHL overager, etc. Pajpach shouldn't be an option yet. I want to see him in Finland.

Draft - With Martin in the pipeline still, they can afford to go for a project instead of picking high, but that isn't the route I'd go. I'd try to get Fitzpatrick in the 3rd (though I doubt he slips that far).

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

If we trade Varly I would like to see an established NHLer brought in to split time with and mentor Pickard. I never had a problem with Berra, but I would prefer someone more proven and experienced if Pickard is the starter. If we trade Pickard then Varly/Berra is fine IMO. Personally, I hope we trade Varly. That could save us a lot of money and his trade value is so much higher IMO (I don't see Pickard getting what Jones did). I do think we should trade one of them because of the expansion draft.

However it shakes out in the NHL, we need a #3. I feel Martin should be slotted into the #4 role, maybe even splitting starts 50/50. But I wouldn't want him being the guy getting called up and down when needed. Berra would be fine IMO if it ends up being him and Martin, if Berra accepts that role.

I also agree we should have another youngster in the ECHL. Someone other than Pajpach. Not sure I would want to give him a contract yet, not with his underwhelming play and us holding his rights for a couple more years.

As for the draft, I honestly wouldn't be against taking one of the top guys (Hart, Gustavsson, Fitzpatrick) in the 2nd. I would really like another stud in the system along with Martin. I hope we don't wait until the 5th or later.

 

[McMetal]

Trading Varley would make us a worse team in the short term, but I have to admit Varley for futures is probably the smartest route to go. It sucks, I still believe he could be a cup winner someday, but his trade value and cap hit make him the prime candidate for being moved.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Varly is the one being moved I'm fine waiting a year. Give him an opportunity to get his value back up. I realize it's risky waiting so close to expansion and overall value may go down but if Varly's trade value goes up it's a win. Plus if he regains his elite form it's an even easier decision to keep him over Picks. If Varly sucks this year you expose him and protect Pickard and he wont get picked up in expansion anyway with his contract.

If the decision is already made that Varly is our guy and Pickard is going to be the one who gets traded they should trade him this offseason.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Good post

I somewhat agree with you on the expansion draft. I believe that the expansion draft has pushed the timeline up to make a decision on the two goalies. Next off-season was when they would have made a decision at the earliest. Now it's looking like if they want anything for Varly or Pickard, they have to make the decision this off-season.

If Varlamov is the one traded then I agree 100% that I'd like to see a Reimer type goalie here. Someone who can take over the top goalie spot if Pickard gets fatigued or just can't be a starter this coming season. This team will not want to miss out on playoffs a 3rd year in a row.

For the record, I firmly believe that the highest compete level is with Martin right now. Can change though if they pick a certain goalie from the OHL. Pickard is a competitive goalie it would be amazing if with his compete level he was still 3rd in terms of compete level compared to the other goalies in the organization.

If Fitzpatrick fell to the 3rd round I'd fly to Buffalo and make the pick for the Avalanche myself. Personally I think the Avalanche will probably take a chance for a goalie in the 5th round. Or maybe they fall in love with Sawchenko and take him in the 3rd. I would definitely be on board with that decision.

Fitzpatrick and Hart will be more then likely be gone in the 2nd round to Edmonton/Toronto.

 

[henchman21]

For the record, I firmly believe that the highest compete level is with Martin right now. Can change though if they pick a certain goalie from the OHL. Pickard is a competitive goalie it would be amazing if with his compete level he was still 3rd in terms of compete level compared to the other goalies in the organization.

If Fitzpatrick fell to the 3rd round I'd fly to Buffalo and make the pick for the Avalanche myself. Personally I think the Avalanche will probably take a chance for a goalie in the 5th round. Or maybe they fall in love with Sawchenko and take him in the 3rd. I would definitely be on board with that decision.

It is possible... I've seen it in Martin in the past, he has had lapses sometimes as well. I think part of that was the situation in Mississauga, but I'm not going to hold that against him going forward. I just need a bit more record of it professionally.

Goalies are always so weird on where they get drafted. Booth should have never fell to the 4th last year, but did... I could see Fitzpatrick in any range from the late 1st to mid 3rd. If he gets to the Avs' pick though, I'll be upset they don't select him.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Varly reminds me of Tommy Salo.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Good summary and definitely lays out the need for a depth chart of 1-5 goalies in the system. The 3 goalie has to be someone you can live with starting in the NHL if worse comes to worse, the 5 has to be at least AHL capable in some capacity.

I too would prefer them to sort out the Varly/Pickard thing this season both from a value perspective and a clarity perspective, we don't want this turning into something that hangs over the team. Hopefully in potentially dealing Varly that counts as the punishment to the core and we can move forward.

I too don't think Picks/Berra cuts it, if Varly goes they need a good backup in the NHL and Berra would be a good 3 goalie. Same think if both Pickard and Varly stay, Berra would be a good 3. If they deal Pickard, unlikely but if, then they need a vet starter for the AHL at minimum if they roll with Berra as the backup again.

I'm a touch skeptical they will move Martin up to the AHL just yet, they obviously need a younger 5 behind him. If they somehow obtain that this summer then I could see it but I think default might be another year in the ECHL. I know they care about developing him, I don't see it as a negative on him, they would just be taking their time.

As far as the draft, I don't think they need to draft a goalie early. They can get a quality kid that goes undrafted as long as they are willing to sign someone and I think good options will be available in the later rounds. If we had more picks I could see them go earlier but this year they just can't do it.

 

[AvHooligan]

"With the expansion rules being finalized it's all but confirmed we're going to lose either Varlamov or Pickard."

How is this all but confirmed? I'm not up to date on the expansion rules so forgive me...but how is it guaranteed we lose one or the other?

 

[tigervixxxen]

"With the expansion rules being finalized it's all but confirmed we're going to lose either Varlamov or Pickard."

How is this all but confirmed? I'm not up to date on the expansion rules so forgive me...but how is it guaranteed we lose one or the other?

It's not a guarantee but teams will only be able to protect one goalie. So it would be a big risk to leave either unprotected.

 

[Don Corleone]

Trade Varly. The Avs are not competing for a cup in at least a few years, if even then.

 

[S E P H]

This might sound dumb, but I do hope Avs are looking at Adam Vay from Hungary. Yeah, that "blah, blah, blah", he just had a good two games, but damn has he shown a lot in those games. Good angling, great size, and the most important aspect, that athleticism for his size is something you just can't teach. Yeah he was stuff to work on, like footwork, but we got one of the best in Allaire. I really hope Avs are at least scouting him.

There's also this guy from Belgium, Wouter Peeters, don't know how you pronounce the first name, but Jokerit just signed him and NSS has him ranked as the 6th best Euro goaler in their final list. This guy must be one of those hidden diamonds to climb this far.

His Eliteprospect page, there will be goalers available to replace Will and Berra IMO.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=241698

 

[UncleRisto]

Wonder how Vay has hid in these obscure leagues with stats like that...

Think he'd at least have a shot at the Allsvenskan or Mestis or some other league that guys from small hockey countries often move to.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

If Adam Vay is fine with playing in the ECHL this coming season then I definitely wouldn't mind the Avalanche signing him. He's the type of goalie I'd expect the Avalanche to put down in the ECHL with Martin making the jump to the AHL. As for Peeters...I wouldn't take him until the 7th round and if he's the only goalie taken by the Avs I'll be upset.

 

[UncleRisto]

I don't see why he wouldn't unless he gets a better offer somewhere. The guy played in the Western States Hockey League.

 

[McMetal]

We'll have to take a goalie in the third, IMO, especially since the writing is on the wall for losing one of Picks/Varley soon and we don't have a 4th.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

We'll have to take a goalie in the third, IMO, especially since the writing is on the wall for losing one of Picks/Varley soon and we don't have a 4th.

Good chance for some good goalies in the later part of the draft. Plus one of the goalies that I believe will turn out to be the best ones will definitely be available in the 6th and 7th rounds.

 

[UncleRisto]

Good chance for some good goalies in the later part of the draft. Plus one of the goalies that I believe will turn out to be the best ones will definitely be available in the 6th and 7th rounds.

Samuel? Timpano? Would love to hear a quick assessment of your favorites. As in what you think separates them from the rest.

 

[S E P H]

Samuel? Timpano? Would love to hear a quick assessment of your favorites. As in what you think separates them from the rest.

Antoine Samuel is my personal favourite, but I've been hearing he might go in the middle of the draft, so rounds 4 to 5.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Samuel? Timpano? Would love to hear a quick assessment of your favorites. As in what you think separates them from the rest.

I won't say anything about Hart or Fitzpatrick since they won't be around when the Avalanche finally pick a goalie.

Zack Sawchenko. Aggressive goalie (maybe the most aggressive) and the 2nd fastest among the CHL goalies eligble for the 2016 draft. Real competitive guy too. I really like his puck handling skills as well. Somewhere in the 3rd round or early 4th round is where I expect him to go. My one concern is that he'll over challenge the player or over handle the puck.

Antoine Samuel. Lots of reason to like this kid. Playing on the worst team in the QMJHL actually gave him a chance to look better. Lots of shots really helped him show off his game. Another competitive goalie and very aggressive. He's definitely the Spencer Martin type of goalie where he's big and can still move as if he were a smaller goalie. Slightly worried about his mental game/consistency. There's usually one moment every game where he ends up about a foot further from the net then he should be.

Troy Timpano. The most competitive goalie, the quickest on his skates and the most intelligent goalie in the CHL. He's a hard working goalie stuck in a crappy system in Sudbury. He knows his team has about a 5% chance of winning any given game and he'll still put himself through a player to make a save or cover the puck. It's honestly great to watch. Some weaknesses would be fatigue, Varly happy feet syndrome, and possibly consistency (hard to say considering the team he plays on). NHL goalie coaches will love this kid. He just needs a new OHL team.

Antoine Samuel is my personal favourite, but I've been hearing he might go in the middle of the draft, so rounds 4 to 5.

Antoine Samuel is becoming more then a few people's favourite's I've noticed. Just wanted to say I've been a fan of him since the start of the season

 

[UncleRisto]

And who's this tall kid Dhillon that I drafted in the mock for the Ben Bishop Effect?

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

And who's this tall kid Dhillon that I drafted in the mock for the Ben Bishop Effect?

He'd be a good goalie to draft. I have him behind Fitzpatrick, Hart, Sawchenko, Timpano, Samuel, and Parsons. That's just the CHL as well. There's Colton Point who'd I take ahead of him plus the Swedish goalie and Mikhail Berdin as well. Rather another team take him before the Avs even think about taking him.

I don't like that his main feature is size. If Dhillon is there in the 5th round then sure, I'd take him. Not a round before that though. He has a lot to prove right now and while he was good when Nedeljkovic was off at the WJC, there are still question marks surrounding him.

I don't want a big goalie unless he can move quickly around the net.