Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose Coyotes Arena Talk: Land Auction Date Set - 6/27

Ciao

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Jul 15, 2010
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The more I dwell on it, the more I feel Meruelo should have humbled himself, tucked his tail between his legs, and gone back to Glendale to broker a peace deal

Break the Mullet lease, which was temporary in nature to begin with. I doubt Tempe would mind, and let ASU keep the annex

It’s hard to grasp that there’s a purpose-built, not-a-bad-seat-in-the-house NHL arena with no anchor tenant sitting idle in a 6 million metro in exchange for the Delta Center in a metro of maybe 2 million. The optics on that at surface level is laughable

Also, at this point, cannot ignore the growth of affluence of Surprise and North Peoria and even to some extent Goodyear and Litchfield Park. This ain’t the 2000’s West Valley

Especially with the team turning a corner operations and on-ice product wise

It should have at least bought some time, gotten the NHLPA off of the markets back, and I cant discount it may have even been a strong business opportunity for Mereuelo. Push comes to shove I bet he could have got a favorable lease, if he approached Glendale with tact and self-awareness. Can’t ignore he may have even wanted to purchase it on the cheap and get a winning product and build some goodwill for a more calculated move

Im examining this from the perspective of post-TED failure

Just a lot to think about at the moment
I had a similar thought until I read @Fenway 's post on the BOH boards that the NHLPA got a call about the Coyote's unpaid hotel bill in Boston.

You just got stuck with a bad actor here. I doubt that Glendale would have anything to do with him under any circumstances. No one likes being lied to.

I can't imagine this guy is at all capable of building a new arena and reviving the Coyotes.

No doubt the NHL wants the Phoenix market, but it would have to be under new management.

Brace yourself for the litigation to follow.
 

Fenway

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Meruelo has a well-documented history of being late with payments.

He HAD to pay ASU or the house of cards would collapse.

The city manager in Glendale is on record saying the arena has made money the last 2 years without hockey.

I believe Bettman is focused on Atlanta 3.0 and with the right owner and arena location it will work.
 

Bonsai Tree

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Meruelo has a well-documented history of being late with payments.

He HAD to pay ASU or the house of cards would collapse.

The city manager in Glendale is on record saying the arena has made money the last 2 years without hockey.

I believe Bettman is focused on Atlanta 3.0 and with the right owner and arena location it will work.
Don’t trust what Glendale’s city manager said just on faith alone. It doesn’t pass the sniff test. Also, the NHLPA has a history of corruption. Their claim needs corroboration as well.

I have no trust in any of the players in this saga.
 

The Feckless Puck

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Don’t trust what Glendale’s city manager said just on faith alone. It doesn’t pass the sniff test. Also, the NHLPA has a history of corruption. Their claim needs corroboration as well.

I have no trust in any of the players in this saga.

Glendale's assertion of record profits without the Coyotes is about on par with the Coyotes' assertion that they blew away income records at the Mullett. Same exact spin doctoring.

The reality is that if Meruelo had signed a 10-year lease to play at GRA/DDA, it would have been up exactly when the probable timeline of building an entertainment district at Scottsdale and the 101 would have been complete.

That's not a fun thing to contemplate.
 

Jakey53

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Glendale's assertion of record profits without the Coyotes is about on par with the Coyotes' assertion that they blew away income records at the Mullett. Same exact spin doctoring.

The reality is that if Meruelo had signed a 10-year lease to play at GRA/DDA, it would have been up exactly when the probable timeline of building an entertainment district at Scottsdale and the 101 would have been complete.

That's not a fun thing to contemplate.
Meruelo said Glendale wanted a 30yr. lease.
 

TheLegend

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Glendale's assertion of record profits without the Coyotes is about on par with the Coyotes' assertion that they blew away income records at the Mullett. Same exact spin doctoring.

The reality is that if Meruelo had signed a 10-year lease to play at GRA/DDA, it would have been up exactly when the probable timeline of building an entertainment district at Scottsdale and the 101 would have been complete.

That's not a fun thing to contemplate.
Yeah I’m not buying Glendale’s line.

Because they also boasted they could make up the loss of 41 hockey games with just 20 medium-major events and they haven’t come remotely close to that yet.

Everything they have done since the Coyotes left is to position themselves into absorbing the cost they put into building the arena in the first place.

Anyone who bothered to even take a moderate dive into it can figure this out. And with all due respect to some people with who have a good understanding of that realm of business they aren’t going to bother because their own personal biases won’t let them.
 
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MIGs Dog

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Nope…. minimum of 15. Ken Phelps has been quoted multiple times about that.

15 years would have allowed Glendale to pay the arena bonds off.

It is illogical for Glendale to say they are making money without the Coyotes by doing other events, but the Coyotes + other events were financially untenable.

Plenty of white space on the Glendale arena calendar. The frickin Crypto.com arena has four pro franchises and still finds time to bring in the circus.
 
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TheLegend

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It is illogical for Glendale to say they are making money without the Coyotes by doing other events, but the Coyotes + other events was financially untenable.

Phelps himself was quoted he offered to sell the arena to Meruelo at a steep discount and Meruelo turned it down.

So now they’re looking to unload it onto AGM in the next few years.
 
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The Feckless Puck

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Phelps himself was quoted he offered to sell the arena to Meruelo at a steep discount and Meruelo turned it down.

So now they’re looking to unload it onto AGM in the next few years.

Yeah, buying DDA wasn't going to be an option. Glendale isn't going to work for anything other than a temporary location. It's just an attractive temporary location because, even with work needed on it, it's the best arena for hockey in the entire state and, arguably, the best arena period. If Meruelo peaces out on us (like I hope he does), it'd be nice to have someone local talk to Glendale about doing a temporary deal that is beneficial for both sides while a new barn goes up in the East Valley - a win win that would allow Glendale to divest itself of the arena to AGM and allow the new owner to finish his own build.

I mean, that just feels like common sense to me. Mullett never did.
 

TheLegend

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I can see why AM wouldn't want it. He probably thought finding a better location would be easy.

He’d been negotiating with Tempe since he bought the team.

Correct that…. He took over the negotiations. The Coyotes were already engaged with Tempe when Meruelo bought them.
 
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TheLegend

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Yeah, buying DDA wasn't going to be an option. Glendale isn't going to work for anything other than a temporary location. It's just an attractive temporary location because, even with work needed on it, it's the best arena for hockey in the entire state and, arguably, the best arena period. If Meruelo peaces out on us (like I hope he does), it'd be nice to have someone local talk to Glendale about doing a temporary deal that is beneficial for both sides while a new barn goes up in the East Valley - a win win that would allow Glendale to divest itself of the arena to AGM and allow the new owner to finish his own build.

I mean, that just feels like common sense to me. Mullett never did.

Could have if Meruelo had bought Westgate instead of Bob Parsons.

Coyotes had countered with 3 years and an option for two more.

Which would have roughly been when the that original 15-year lease with IA ran out had Mayor Santa Claus not orchestrated that conflict of interest gambit to get it terminated.
 
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XX

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I can see why AM wouldn't want it. He probably thought finding a better location would be easy.

He didn't have the money is the most likely answer. Short and long term.

The arena would cost no more than $100m to control the teams destiny and remove the possibility of being forced into a situation where operating losses were much higher. It would remain a competing venue for any new arena, so tearing it down or converting it to something else would also have a value. A serious owner would have leapt at the opportunity to take it out from under Glendale. He instead ended up 'paying' for the annex and taking big losses at ASU.

I think the intention has always been to flip the team to someone else and his behavior matches with that. The rest is just window dressing to protect his ego.
 

LAIslanderFan

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He didn't have the money is the most likely answer. Short and long term.

The arena would cost no more than $100m to control the teams destiny and remove the possibility of being forced into a situation where operating losses were much higher. It would remain a competing venue for any new arena, so tearing it down or converting it to something else would also have a value. A serious owner would have leapt at the opportunity to take it out from under Glendale. He instead ended up 'paying' for the annex and taking big losses at ASU.

I think the intention has always been to flip the team to someone else and his behavior matches with that. The rest is just window dressing to protect his ego.
I don't understand exactly how the finances work, but the Coyotes needed to be subsidized from Glendale to turn a profit, so that's why I think the Coyotes weren't interested in taking control of the Glendale area. I imagine if AM were given the opportunity of taking over the arena and was allowed to purchase a large parcel of land adjacent to the arena, he would have been all in.
I don't buy the opinion that the team couldn't work in the west valley. Stable ownership and a successful on ice product would have taken care of that, but there still needed to be more than just an arena. That's why AM needs to build more than an arena in Scottsdale and he needed to do that in Tempe as well.

To be completely transparent, I live in the west valley (Surprise).
 

XX

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I don't understand exactly how the finances work, but the Coyotes needed to be subsidized from Glendale to turn a profit, so that's why I think the Coyotes weren't interested in taking control of the Glendale area.

That is the type of thing that would impact a cash poor, short term owner. It would be of no real relevance to someone professing his love of AZ and claiming to want to pass the team down to his kids one day. Buying the arena and eating some short term losses would be a blip on the radar for someone flush who actually was in it for the long haul.

We need to lower our collective expectations for the guy stiffing hotels. He was never that caliber. And even if he was, he couldn't bring himself to stay that way despite immense pressure from the league and other owners. The per diem and bonuses ended up not being a one time goof.

The league was okay with him as a bag holder but I think even they were disappointed in the end just as we are.
 

The Feckless Puck

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I don't understand exactly how the finances work, but the Coyotes needed to be subsidized from Glendale to turn a profit, so that's why I think the Coyotes weren't interested in taking control of the Glendale area. I imagine if AM were given the opportunity of taking over the arena and was allowed to purchase a large parcel of land adjacent to the arena, he would have been all in.
I don't buy the opinion that the team couldn't work in the west valley. Stable ownership and a successful on ice product would have taken care of that, but there still needed to be more than just an arena. That's why AM needs to build more than an arena in Scottsdale and he needed to do that in Tempe as well.

To be completely transparent, I live in the west valley (Surprise).

I think the takeaway from everything that's happened to this franchise in almost 30 years is this: hockey may work in various locales around the Valley depending on context and how the team does business, but it will never work anywhere in Arizona if the ownership sucks as much ass as ours has virtually since day one.

I mean, an engaged, Mark Cuban-style owner could have made it work in Glendale. Truly, he could have. It would have taken a lot of work in the community to build relationships and get west side fans excited in the sport rather than marketing to people 30 miles away. It would have taken infrastructure partnerships to build local sheets of ice and youth programs in the same area as Westgate. It would have taken a personal interest in working with Valley corporations to be partners for the whole Valley instead of saying it would only work in their backyards. And maybe it would even have required encouraging the players to get homes in the affluent areas in the northeast part of town (although that wasn't very realistic back in 2003, when there wasn't the "West Scottsdale" development push that we have out here now).

Lots of ifs, sure. But look at what we've been through the last two years. We had an East Valley arena. It should have been easy - no, a fait accompli - to sell out Mullett every f***ing night, because of where it's located. And we had a development plan - or at least a pie in the sky idea - that should have been the biggest slam dunk of all time to build a massive jewel of an entertainment district on a piece of land that not even Tempe wants to have anything to do with. But nobody trusted the ownership except the politicians. That history of malfeasance and bad faith and questionable finances that has dogged the Coyotes since, well, year two of their existence in Arizona just never went away, no matter how much the faces changed.

And what's worst about our current situation is that that history won't go away either so long as Alex Meruelo is involved in any capacity with the franchise. The local pols, businesspeople, and voters aren't going to suddenly give him the benefit of the doubt just because we lost a team and they want to have one back. He's the same guy. He's shown absolutely zero intent on changing the way he does business to perform outreach, to connect with people, to become anything more than an absentee father to a neglected child. Does anyone really think that anyone outside of the blind diehards who want a team back at all costs will trust him or want to do business with him? Of course not.

I think the NHL knows this. This whole 5-year window of "activation" thing is a smoke screen for them to hide behind and get away with this with less blowback. They don't want Meruelo in the club anymore. They don't think he will do what he's been promising, because he hasn't followed up on anything else he's promised. They are likely hoping he will skip town with the cash, and that will be the end of the Arizona era and they can go chase money in Houston and Atlanta.

Bettman and co. would love it if someone with boundless cash, a keen eye for and experience in sports business, and an attitude of making things work would somehow magically appear in Arizona and build a franchise here. Unfortunately, that mythical figure does not exist. Matt Ishbia is not that guy. He's a basketball guy who would take on a hockey team as part of his portfolio, not like Ryan Smith who is doing it because he likes hockey and wants to see it succeed in SLC. Ishbia has shown none of that kind of interest. The only interest he's shown has been as a way to expand his empire and holdings, not be the borderline pastor of an aimless flock of hockey devotees who can help them build a settlement and a life.

I think once people understand all of this, it will make things a little easier to cope with.
 

Bonsai Tree

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My take from almost 30 tumultuous years of Coyotes hockey is that in this professional hockey, ownership rules. Unlike baseball, hockey teams can’t succeed despite poor ownership.
 
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