Alfredsson talk II

[BloodRedArmy]

It's true and a major factor that Alfie highballed the Sens as his intention was to explore the Canadian tax system. It is not a loophole, it is clearly stated. Something to the tune of 17 million or so (although I can't remember the actual figure)will come his way in two years time. The taxes he paid over the years will be returned. Shawn Simpson has alluded to this a few times that the tax implication for Alfie to leave are too big to ignore. As was Sundin's decision to go back to Europe, and other players who then return.

Why does he have to go to the US to get this money back? Why couldn't he finish his career in Ottawa and then move home to Sweden and be entitled to the exact same money?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

well the chance at ore money does some strange things to people

 

[coladin]

Why does he have to go to the US to get this money back? Why couldn't he finish his career in Ottawa and then move home to Sweden and be entitled to the exact same money?

The US is the only country with NHL teams, as he still wants to play so that is his only option.

 

[BloodRedArmy]

The US is the only country with NHL teams, as he still wants to play so that is his only option.

My point was that he could continue to play in Ottawa until he decides to retire, then move to Sweden and get that money.

It doesn't add up.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

It's true and a major factor that Alfie highballed the Sens as his intention was to explore the Canadian tax system. It is not a loophole, it is clearly stated. Something to the tune of 17 million or so (although I can't remember the actual figure)will come his way in two years time. The taxes he paid over the years will be returned. Shawn Simpson has alluded to this a few times that the tax implication for Alfie to leave are too big to ignore. As was Sundin's decision to go back to Europe, and other players who then return.

I don't believe there is any retroactive benefit.

It has to do with what the CRA calls significant residential ties to Canada which include:
•a home in Canada;
•a spouse or common-law partner in Canada; and
•dependants in Canada;

Secondary residential ties that may be relevant include:
•personal property in Canada, such as a car or furniture;
•social ties in Canada, such as memberships in Canadian recreational or religious organizations;
•economic ties in Canada, such as Canadian bank accounts or credit cards;
•a Canadian driver's licence;
•a Canadian passport; and
•health insurance with a Canadian province or territory.

By selling the house Alfie will file in the US and save considerable tax dollars because the US Federal tax rate is lower for high income earners and the Michigan state tax is almost non-existent compared to Ontario.

As far as players jumping back to Sweden to save tax, find that hard to believe when Sweden's tax rate is higher than Canada.

Individuals pay both national income tax and municipal income tax. In 2010, individual income tax rates in Sweden change between 54% and 61%, 57.77% being the average tax rate.

While the average tax rate for a Swedish player residing in Ontario would be 46.03% in 2014.

In the case of Alfredsson living in Michigan, his average tax rate is ~40%.

 

[Qward]

You cannot retroactive your taxes in the way that is being implied..
The best Alfie could do is on his 2013 taxes prove he was outside the country for 183 days or more. It is called the sojourners rule. The best it would do is reduce the amount of taxes owed on the $1M he made. (Not to mention that he only received 58.5% of that thanks to the lockout.)
When Alfie left, he had to prove he was no longer a Canadian resident and had to sever all ties. This means, selling his house, stepping down as head of his charity, moving his family and either removing all his goods or to sell them. These are criteria the CRA looks for when determining if the person is temporarily leaving or permanently. The difference is, if it is a temporary leave, he must still pay income taxes on all income made worldwide in both Canada and the U.S.
There is a chance that the NHL has a tax treaty in place with the Canadian and Ontario Government, but even then, you cannot retroactively reduce your taxes for years that you were a Canadian resident.

 

[coladin]

It is not a retroactive benefit, it is more of a recapture of taxes.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Keep towing the company line

Because i need proof before I believe something?

Whatever.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Some wing fans don't even want him back and would rather see him retire. Saw him getting bashed in the post game thread last night about how much he has sucked lately and how Holland should let him walk. No idea what more they expected from an old player really.

i have missed the past few games but in general, wings board hates anyone over 27 who isn't top pairing or line guy and wants to send them to the moon asap. people go more overboard there than in any other forum from what i've seen. no matter results or depth, go with kids and prospects. wings do overripe kids and bring them up very slowly but still.

but anyway, alfie has been invisible a lot on ES lately but he's been playing with a lot of crap. too much to expect him to carry those plugs he's been playing with, esp. for full reg. season with olympic fill in etc. he did well when wings were more healthy. we'll see how he plays down the stretch. he might suffer from injuries too as, he's a red wing after all. i think it's written in their contracts that they must have ones and as often as possible.

 

[Slow Hands]

i have missed the past few games but in general, wings board hates anyone over 27 who isn't top pairing or line guy and wants to send them to the moon asap. people go more overboard there than in any other forum from what i've seen. no matter results or depth, go with kids and prospects. wings do overripe kids and bring them up very slowly but still.

but anyway, alfie has been invisible a lot on ES lately but he's been playing with a lot of crap. too much to expect him to carry those plugs he's been playing with, esp. for full reg. season with olympic fill in etc. he did well when wings were more healthy. we'll see how he plays down the stretch. he might suffer from injuries too as, he's a red wing after all. i think it's written in their contracts that they must have ones and as often as possible.

This **** pisses me off. No offense to your fanbase or city but it kills me that someone that meant so much to our community and franchise was allowed to leave so he can get bashed for not being in his prime anymore.

 

[Kellogs]

This **** pisses me off. No offense to your fanbase or city but it kills me that someone that meant so much to our community and franchise was allowed to leave so he can get bashed for not being in his prime anymore.

Yet we have no problem bashing Phillips now....

 

[Slow Hands]

Yet we have no problem bashing Phillips now....

I like Phillips, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he holds the same stature that Alfredsson held before his departure. Doesn't mean either should be free from criticism, but *******, if someone's going to bash our heroes, it should be us, not a bunch of jerks from Detroit who haven't gone through the turmoil our franchise has.

 

[StefanW]

Yet we have no problem bashing Phillips now....

 

[Wondercarrot]

Go taken down from the site so the Sens, the problem with Yost is he takes rumours to be facts but has nothing to back it up besides more rumours, and if he did have a leg to stand on on this he would not of taken it down from the website - he would of stood by it.

At some point I think he losses credibility and becomes a bit of a sideshow - he has broken his own rule own saying he would never talk about things he had no proof of or rumours and now he has become the guy that barks the loudest but has no bite.

Are the Sens in a heap of trouble - yes.
Does this mean Melnyk sends drunk emails and Karlsson cheated on his wife - no.
Yost gets these things mixed up.

and when should all be sending a message to Melnyk that he's not a good enough owner for our fanbase by not buying tickets, Yost is miles ahead of everyone, I doubt he's been to a regular season in 5 years and certainly didn't buy the ticket if he did

Do I have proof of this, no, but it sounds about right and that's the world we are living in right now with these types of rumour to truth posts Yost is turning out.

FWIW Yost tweeted in a reply to someone that he did not take the post down.
Also FWIW the last time all his info disappeared he showed screen captures of who hacked (ip address etc) into hockeybuzz (i think he had someone trace it) and it was traced back to a Ukrainian orphanage supported by Melnyk.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...finances-dispute-eugene-melnyk-210553389.html

 

[Wondercarrot]

No credible sources even touched the story of that Melnyk email. The whole thing was scuttlebut by anonymous bloggers, message board posters and some dude that writes for the biggest joke of a hockey site on the internet.

That's all im saying.

I'm not going to believe something unless there is more than just conjecture, and the aforementioned kinds of people reporting it.

anonymous?
Is the name Travis Yost a pseudonym, im fairly certain he has a law degree, is that a fake?
Senschirp has been given media accreditation by the Sens in the past. how is he anonynous?

you realize that none of the newspaper reporters in this city would ever,ever, EVER put it in print even if they knew that stuff to be true right?
they arent investigative journalists, they're moron semi literate sports reporters who have zero interest in ruining a good thing. i even get that, its not what they signed up for- but you will be waiting an eternity to hear anything from them.

you dont think people on this site know things happening within the sens organization? believe, dont believe whatever - but dont kid yourself.

 

[StefanW]

anonymous?
Is the name Travis Yost a pseudonym, im fairly certain he has a law degree, is that a fake?
Senschirp has been given media accreditation by the Sens in the past. how is he anonynous?

you realize that none of the newspaper reporters in this city would ever,ever, EVER put it in print even if they knew that stuff to be true right?
they arent investigative journalists, they're moron semi literate sports reporters who have zero interest in ruining a good thing. i even get that, its not what they signed up for- but you will be waiting an eternity to hear anything from them.

you dont think people on this site know things happening within the sens organization? believe, dont believe whatever - but dont kid yourself.

Excellent points. Yost is outside the mainstream media, and as such he can put up stories that others will not touch because he does not have to be afraid of losing accreditation or access to players.

That does not make what he said true automatically, but it has to be taken into account when making a decision about how far to trust his story.

When this first broke I posted that my standard of proof is whether he is sued. If it is all fiction with no truth behind it segments of the article are clearly libel. He mentioned in his twitter account that he did not write anything that he would not put in an affidavit, which is strong in my books. He clearly knows the risks, and clearly trusts his source.

The last thing I mention is that we have to consider the fact that sources for information like this will almost never want to be openly named.

We will all make out own judgments about the story. I actually think it is quite reasonable when people say they want more proof before they believe him. However, that proof will not be coming. So we all set our standards, figure things out on our own, and move forward from there.

 

[John Holmes*]

FWIW Yost tweeted in a reply to someone that he did not take the post down.
Also FWIW the last time all his info disappeared he showed screen captures of who hacked (ip address etc) into hockeybuzz (i think he had someone trace it) and it was traced back to a Ukrainian orphanage supported by Melnyk.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...finances-dispute-eugene-melnyk-210553389.html

Don't they have other things to worry about over there...

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

anonymous?
Is the name Travis Yost a pseudonym, im fairly certain he has a law degree, is that a fake?
Senschirp has been given media accreditation by the Sens in the past. how is he anonynous?

you realize that none of the newspaper reporters in this city would ever,ever, EVER put it in print even if they knew that stuff to be true right?
they arent investigative journalists, they're moron semi literate sports reporters who have zero interest in ruining a good thing. i even get that, its not what they signed up for- but you will be waiting an eternity to hear anything from them.

you dont think people on this site know things happening within the sens organization? believe, dont believe whatever - but dont kid yourself.

Im sure that people do, but so much **** gets flung against the wall around here that to believe everything would be naive.

Im sure that some people have sources inside the organization, im sure that others make **** up, and even more report the made up crap as if they found out about it first hand.

I'm not going to deny something if there is enough evidence to prove it, but in this case there simply isn't enough to prove it one way or the other, yet people start believing that its a fact and not just a rumour. I believe that to be a dangerous line of thinking, believing stuff without proof if it has just the right spin. I don't buy into it at all.

And no, I don't give Yost much credit. Look who signs his pay cheques, the absolute king of making up nonsense to generate hits. If he wants people to take him seriously, get a job with a serious company.

 

[pepty]

It's true and a major factor that Alfie highballed the Sens as his intention was to explore the Canadian tax system. It is not a loophole, it is clearly stated. Something to the tune of 17 million or so (although I can't remember the actual figure)will come his way in two years time. The taxes he paid over the years will be returned. Shawn Simpson has alluded to this a few times that the tax implication for Alfie to leave are too big to ignore. As was Sundin's decision to go back to Europe, and other players who then return.

I understood that what they were talking about was the burden in taxes if they own a residence in Canada and one in the US, and that he would likely sell his home while he lived in the US to avoid paying extra tax, not shenanigans having to do with some tax windfall that would cause him to leave the country.

 

[StefanW]

Im sure that people do, but so much **** gets flung against the wall around here that to believe everything would be naive.

Im sure that some people have sources inside the organization, im sure that others make **** up, and even more report the made up crap as if they found out about it first hand.

I'm not going to deny something if there is enough evidence to prove it, but in this case there simply isn't enough to prove it one way or the other, yet people start believing that its a fact and not just a rumour. I believe that to be a dangerous line of thinking, believing stuff without proof if it has just the right spin. I don't buy into it at all.

And no, I don't give Yost much credit. Look who signs his pay cheques, the absolute king of making up nonsense to generate hits. If he wants people to take him seriously, get a job with a serious company.

I'm pretty sure he works at a law firm. That seems pretty serious to me.

Your points about not knowing who to believe are well taken though. It is often unclear online, where lots of people claim to have inside info but are simply making stuff up.

 

[Qward]

No point in waiting for 1K. Other thread is up.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1627047