AHL West in 2015-16?

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wildcat48

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Jul 16, 2005
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What made the team invisible in Portland was the constant ******* match between Brian Petrovek and the Civic Center Board of Trustees.... The team more than likely was going to have to play all of last season in Lewiston because the Civic Center (Cross Insurance Arena) wasn’t going to be ready. It didn’t open for its first event until mid-February and construction has still been ongoing. The locker rooms are only being finished now.

People were fed up with Petro’s way of doing business. That aspect is gone now that Ron Cain has come into save the day. Petro is gone. He’s Adirondack’s problem now. I would agree with anyone several years ago or during the lease disputes in 2005, 2009 and last season that the Pirates could pick up stakes at anytime and leave, but that element is gone with Cain.

Regardless of affiliation the Pirates are one of the safest franchises in this whole process.

The Pirates have a solid owner in Cain. They have a newly renovated arena with a long-term lease that allows them to generate revenues in ways they never could in the past i.e. concessions and corporate suites, club seating, loge seating, advertising etc. Despite the lost season, the Pirates have a very strong corporate base behind them. There is a reason why Business Sports Journal considers Portland a strong minor league market because of the money spent within the corporate community on the Pirates, Red Claws, Sea Dog and soon to be MooseTrax. That’s one of the reasons why the Pirates don’t rely 100% on gate. The Pirates can average 3,250 per game and still break even.

Cain’s vested sports interest also adds stability to the Pirates future in Portland. Cain is the Owner and CEO of Legacy Global. He’s the owner of the Portland Jr. Pirates and the OA Performance Center, which is considered an elite facility in New England for athletic training. The Pirates use it as their full-time training facility because it includes the OA Sports Center, which is a diagnostic, surgical and rehabilitative facility, Michael Phelps Swim Center, which provides aquatic training and rehabilitation as well as MHG Ice Centre, giving the Pirates one central location to train, treat and develop players of its NHL parent team. There is no other facility in this region that is like this and gives the Pirates a huge advantage in recruiting NHL teams to move its affiliation to Portland.

I’ve said all along that I think the Coyotes will leave at the end of this season. No one hide that fact when they signed one-year extension that it was to give the Coyotes an opportunity to look out west. I also don’t dispute the AHL will eventually create a pacific division. It’s bound to happen. But, just because Portland’s current affiliate is PHX/ARI that doesn’t mean Portland is on shaky ground when it all goes down. It simply means Portland will get a new affiliate just like they did with the Capitals left; just like they did when Anaheim and Buffalo departed. This is no different.

I agree with you that there will be a shake up in the AHL… I even agree with you on every point about the process. I don’t think it will be the armageddon that its being made out to be, but there will be a shift and some cities that don’t have the stability, financial wherewithal and amenities will be left out, which takes me back to my original point. The Pirates have a newly-renovated arena, world class training facility and an owner that has deep pockets and devoted to not only the sport of hockey, but to the AHL and the Pirates brand. That's why I do not believe Portland belongs in that discussion.
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
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^^^^ So what will Portland do if/when they lose their affiliation? They have have the greatest owner and arena lease etc. in the wolrd but if they lose their affiliation and no other team wants to affiliate with them, then what? Two choices - Run the team as an independent and based upon the economics, I think there is only one owner that would really want to do that - Levin, and he is not in Portland. Second option is to sell the franchise.

THIS is why Portland is at higher risk than say Chicago. Levin will run the team as an dependent if he could not get an affiliation agreement with an NHL team.
 

go comets

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Jul 10, 2013
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i see portland being in trouble. they are a eastern team, but they are a eastern team that has to travel more than the other eastern teams. same for norfolk. i see the east contracting inward toward the core based around hershey/scranton, rochester/syracuse and springfield/hartford. albany will loose the devils eventually, the devils have already contacted utica about coming back at some point. nhl teams wil want their prospects in cities with the least amount of travel and the most nights spent in their own beds.
 

wildcat48

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Jul 16, 2005
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Portland, Maine
As I said.... Portland will get another affiliate. I'm not worried about that. You think Ron Cain would have invested in the team if he thought he'd have to sell in a year? You don't think he would have done his due diligence? You think they would have gone through everything they did last year just say "Coyotes are gone. Let's sell"? People are not going to be convinced until it happens so be it. As I said once before no one will happen unless we move every New England team to the west coast... It was a tongue and cheek comment but I'm starting to wonder.
 

aparch

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Apr 3, 2008
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As I said.... Portland will get another affiliate. I'm not worried about that. You think Ron Cain would have invested in the team if he thought he'd have to sell in a year? You don't think he would have done his due diligence?...

Depends on if his hand is forced for him. All the best forecast work can't help if his contingency plan doesn't happen as planed.
 

wildthing202

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May 29, 2006
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Basically just splitting the league in two, dumping the NE AHL teams for ECHL rejects then the ECHL takes the CHL rejects and we end up with one less league. Wonder why the NHL doesn't do this then, it'll be better for the Eastern conference teams especially Detroit where they wouldn't ever have to play a 10 PM game again ever.
 

Hoodaha

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Aug 8, 2014
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Not so much

They're not so much taking rejects, as grabbing some of the strongest franchises in the ECHL. Ontario, Stockton, and Bakersfield all have comparable attendance to AHL teams.

Based on last year's attendance, Ontario would be 3rd in the AHL in attendance while Stockton and Bakersfield would be somewhere in the middle of the pack.


The thing that was interesting to me about this article was that it made it sound like a pretty significant portion of the ECHL Western Division would go AHL. Up to this point, I had only really heard that maybe 3-5 teams would.
 

Fenway

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Basically just splitting the league in two, dumping the NE AHL teams for ECHL rejects then the ECHL takes the CHL rejects and we end up with one less league. Wonder why the NHL doesn't do this then, it'll be better for the Eastern conference teams especially Detroit where they wouldn't ever have to play a 10 PM game again ever.

My concern is Manchester and Worcester which are owned by the Kings and Sharks. I have heard the Providence owner may sell the team to the Bruins and he in turn will buy Worcester.

If the ECHL teams out west upgrade to the AHL does the league still stay at 30 teams?

What happens to Alaska in the ECHL if this happens?
 

210

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My concern is Manchester and Worcester which are owned by the Kings and Sharks. I have heard the Providence owner may sell the team to the Bruins and he in turn will buy Worcester.

If the ECHL teams out west upgrade to the AHL does the league still stay at 30 teams?

What happens to Alaska in the ECHL if this happens?

Ummm, what?

When/if the Sharks move their AHL affiliate out of Worcester there will be nothing to buy...
 

Hoodaha

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Reshuffle

Fenway, I'd have to think that if the Kings and Sharks move their AHL affiliates to Ontario and Stockton, it is likely that Manchester and Worcester would be without a team. That said, that doesn't mean that another team can't move there. Manchester certainly has attendance that suggests it's right in line with the AHL. Worcester doesn't look quite as strong on paper, so I don't know if there would be takers or not.

I'm very interested that you mentioned that Boston might buy the P-Bruins, given the recent news that Dallas was buying their affiliate. Is this the start of a trend towards full ownership of AHL franchises by their NHL teams?
 

Hoodaha

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Ummm, what?

When/if the Sharks move their AHL affiliate out of Worcester there will be nothing to buy...

Yeah, that's true. Nothing keeps another weaker AHL team from moving there once they are gone though...
 

Fenway

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I'm very interested that you mentioned that Boston might buy the P-Bruins, given the recent news that Dallas was buying their affiliate. Is this the start of a trend towards full ownership of AHL franchises by their NHL teams?

Worcester draws well for Providence and otherwise is weak. I think if they had kept the Icecats name instead of Sharks they would have done better.

The Bruins pretty much run Providence now anyways and have since they moved to RI from Maine. A couple of years ago the Rhode Island Convention Center Authority considered a new concessionaire and Delaware North told them if they lost the concessions the Providence Bruins would cease to exist.

At one point the local owners were considering rebranding as the Providence (Rhode Island) Reds and the Bruins said NO.
 

210

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Worcester draws well for Providence and otherwise is weak. I think if they had kept the Icecats name instead of Sharks they would have done better.

The Bruins pretty much run Providence now anyways and have since they moved to RI from Maine. A couple of years ago the Rhode Island Convention Center Authority considered a new concessionaire and Delaware North told them if they lost the concessions the Providence Bruins would cease to exist.

At one point the local owners were considering rebranding as the Providence (Rhode Island) Reds and the Bruins said NO.

The IceCats name was poison in the business community. The way St Louis did business in the closing days of the IceCats really put off a ton of major sponsors. There was no way the IceCats name would have worked out for San Jose.
 

Hoodaha

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Worcester draws well for Providence and otherwise is weak. I think if they had kept the Icecats name instead of Sharks they would have done better.

The Bruins pretty much run Providence now anyways and have since they moved to RI from Maine. A couple of years ago the Rhode Island Convention Center Authority considered a new concessionaire and Delaware North told them if they lost the concessions the Providence Bruins would cease to exist.

At one point the local owners were considering rebranding as the Providence (Rhode Island) Reds and the Bruins said NO.

Interesting. I'm actually a fan of one of those ECHL teams that may join the AHL, so I'm not up on all of the politics and inner workings of the AHL just yet. It sucks for some of the Eastern AHL fans, but I'm really excited about the possibility of having an AHL team in town...
 

wildthing202

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May 29, 2006
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Yeah, that's true. Nothing keeps another weaker AHL team from moving there once they are gone though...

Basically you'd have to have a bunch of teams be traded.

Florida trades San Antonio to Phoenix for Portland which saves them.
Then you start with Columbus trading Springfield for Lake Erie from Colorado which removes Springfield since Colorado will move them. Rangers maybe move up 91 to Springfield....
Minnesota trades Iowa to Nashville for Milwaukee then like the rest of the southern teams(Florida/Portland, Tampa Bay/Syracuse) Nashville puts their team in Worcester..........????????

I don't see Boston leaving Providence for Worcester unless H. Larue Renfroe wants them to since he owns the team. Though if the Sharks leave it would give him an opening since it would be the first time since he got majority control(2006) that a team in Worcester didn't exist and he owns that rink in Marlborough that's just a few miles outside the city. Hmmmmmmm.:laugh: Might have a great base for a Providence to Worcester rumor here if it wasn't for the fact that Providence is doing much better in attendance though that might be attributed due to affiliation(Bruins v. Sharks).
 

Hoodaha

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Aug 8, 2014
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Basically you'd have to have a bunch of teams be traded.

Florida trades San Antonio to Phoenix for Portland which saves them.
Then you start with Columbus trading Springfield for Lake Erie from Colorado which removes Springfield since Colorado will move them. Rangers maybe move up 91 to Springfield....
Minnesota trades Iowa to Nashville for Milwaukee then like the rest of the southern teams(Florida/Portland, Tampa Bay/Syracuse) Nashville puts their team in Worcester..........????????

Everything I've read says that Phoenix isn't looking for San Antonio. They want their AHL franchise in Arizona. Possibly Tucson or Prescott Valley. I don't know which franchise they buy to do it though...and I don't know that Either of those locations work for AHL. I know Tucson failed at the AA level many years ago.
 

Royalsflagrunner77

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Jul 26, 2013
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Birdsboro PA
Kings own Manchester, and San Jose owns Wor so they are both gone for sure. Leaves a beautiful building in Manchester open for one of us small market east teams to be gobbled up. Gonna be a crazy year that is for sure. Would Flames bolt to the west and where after one year in ADR? Would Van leave Utica and hop to Abbotsford? What is thier deal with Esche? What markets in the west are open? So as we all know the talk of the western teams liking their farm teams in the east so they can practice more is irrelevalnt. Even in a west division you are still going to have what 40 something games out of division? Still lots of travel for teams out there...

Don,t forget the Kings own Ontario in The E the kings might just have the franchises swap leagues.
 

Fenway

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The IceCats name was poison in the business community. The way St Louis did business in the closing days of the IceCats really put off a ton of major sponsors. There was no way the IceCats name would have worked out for San Jose.

40 years ago the Pawtucket Red Sox were poison in Rhode Island but Ben Mondor promised things would be different. Today the Pawsox may have the strongest minor league brand in any sport.

St Louis was a mess in Worcester and they totally screwed up Peoria.

Dave Andrews doesn't have a clue on how this is going to shake out.

If the western NHL teams follow through on this, these markets are going to have problems finding a parent club

  • Manchester
  • Portland
  • Worcester
  • St John's
  • Norfolk
  • Utica
  • Cleveland

We don't know what the Rangers are going to do with Hartford. This looks like a vicious game of musical chairs and a couple of good hockey markets are going to get hurt by it.

Binghampton could also have a problem down the road as Montreal will wind up in Laval opening up Hamilton for Ottawa. This is going to be ugly and yet it makes sense for the western NHL teams.
 

Royalsflagrunner77

Registered User
Jul 26, 2013
245
67
Birdsboro PA
40 years ago the Pawtucket Red Sox were poison in Rhode Island but Ben Mondor promised things would be different. Today the Pawsox may have the strongest minor league brand in any sport.

St Louis was a mess in Worcester and they totally screwed up Peoria.

Dave Andrews doesn't have a clue on how this is going to shake out.

If the western NHL teams follow through on this, these markets are going to have problems finding a parent club

  • Manchester
  • Portland
  • Worcester
  • St John's
  • Norfolk
  • Utica
  • Cleveland

We don't know what the Rangers are going to do with Hartford. This looks like a vicious game of musical chairs and a couple of good hockey markets are going to get hurt by it.

Binghampton could also have a problem down the road as Montreal will wind up in Laval opening up Hamilton for Ottawa. This is going to be ugly and yet it makes sense for the western NHL teams.

Those teams probably get added to The ECHL.
 
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