AHL Stockton name announcing next week (Update: Heat)

[Thunder God]

He's like 12. Don't pay any attention. He's posted before that he has information on stuff but can't share it.

Try 39 Years Old

 

[aparch]

To be fair, I don't think the Adirondack Flames were trademarked either.

 

[Lunatik]

He's like 12. Don't pay any attention. He's posted before that he has information on stuff but can't share it.

I'm positive he has no inside information. He was showing up in our ADK thread on the Flames board earlier in the year trying to milk me for information about the possible mascot thinking I had some sort of inside knowledge; which of course I do not.

 

[offkilter]

this is exactly what has happened i think

Yeah naming the incoming team the same name as one of the Stockton Thunder's divisional rivals wasn't a good idea. Then again pretty much everything they've done has been a giant misstep since buying Stockton. From trademarking the Stockton Grizzlies name, to already announcing the Thunder name and logo is going to Adirondack, to holding a naming contest that didn't include the Thunder name the overwhelming majority of fans still want to keep its almost like they're trying to run the fanbase into the ground before they even start playing.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah naming the incoming team the same name as one of the Stockton Thunder's divisional rivals wasn't a good idea. Then again pretty much everything they've done has been a giant misstep since buying Stockton. From trademarking the Stockton Grizzlies name, to already announcing the Thunder name and logo is going to Adirondack, to holding a naming contest that didn't include the Thunder name the overwhelming majority of fans still want to keep its almost like they're trying to run the fanbase into the ground before they even start playing.

The problem is for the naming contest they picked the most popular names, which including Calgary Puck members flooding names they wanted, I single out CalPuck because they were campaigning other members to write in votes for the Scorch specifically. Had it been limited to fans in the Stockton area I am positive Thunder would be one of the finalists, but unfortunately the Flames likely have more fans on CalPuck than there are Stockton fans.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

There is a lot of preemptive trademarking, service marking, copyrighting, and buying of web addresses. Think of how much money someone would make if they had www.microsfot.com just for the number of mistypes for microsoft. Think of the owner of barakobama.com or any other person who was nameless 10 years ago? Think if you owned google.com web address. IT would be like hitting the lottery. Think of the owner in the ABA who took a small percent of NBA TV revenues in perpetuity and how much that is worth now. It is cyber speculation. Just think if you knew the move to stockton was taking place and the minute you heard it you spent the money on go daddy and bought all the stocktonflames heat scorch fire etc .com, .net, .tv, etc. domain names and how much you could get for them...

 

[Seattle Totems]

just an aside but can we please stop referring to hockey uniforms as "kits" from here on out? This isn't the UK. Hockey players wear "hockey sweaters". "kits" sounds pretentious. Call them jerseys if you're not down with tradition...

Getting back to the Flames, it's not surprising that they disrespected yet another local fanbase given their history in the AHL. When will they learn? AHL branding is only going to affect how well the local fan base takes to the team. Imposing the Flames brand on a local fan base that probably can't tell much difference between the ECHL and AHL is just not a good idea. It certainly didn't work when the Flames moved to Quad City and Abbotsford. Stockton Thunder was a decent brand that had equity with the fans. The Flames should have just kept the name or limited the suggestions to local submissions if it had to be changed.

And I have to opine that all these singular noun names sound like they came from a marketing firm. "Scorch", "Heat", "Inferno" etc. Could no one come up with a proper plural noun for a group of hockey players? What's next. Will the parent club become the "Calgary Flame" just to be hip?

 

[Lunatik]

just an aside but can we please stop referring to hockey uniforms as "kits" from here on out? This isn't the UK. Hockey players wear "hockey sweaters". "kits" sounds pretentious. Call them jerseys if you're not down with tradition...

Getting back to the Flames, it's not surprising that they disrespected yet another local fanbase given their history in the AHL. When will they learn? AHL branding is only going to affect how well the local fan base takes to the team. Imposing the Flames brand on a local fan base that probably can't tell much difference between the ECHL and AHL is just not a good idea. It certainly didn't work when the Flames moved to Quad City and Abbotsford. Stockton Thunder was a decent brand that had equity with the fans. The Flames should have just kept the name or limited the suggestions to local submissions if it had to be changed.

And I have to opine that all these singular noun names sound like they came from a marketing firm. "Scorch", "Heat", "Inferno" etc. Could no one come up with a proper plural noun for a group of hockey players? What's next. Will the parent club become the "Calgary Flame" just to be hip?

Disrespected? Give me a [MOD] break. Buying a team and changing the name is hardly disrespecting anyone. It may end up not be a sound business decision but in no way is it disrespectful.

 

[Seattle Totems]

the name is one thing but i think its more than that. I dont think the Flames treat their AHL partners or fans very well. They seem to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths when they inevitably leave.

 

[Nosedive]

Disrespected? Give me a [MOD] break. Buying a team and changing the name is hardly disrespecting anyone. It may end up not be a sound business decision but in no way is it disrespectful.

Yes, taking a franchise's identity that's been built and supported by fans for the past ten years and simply giving it to Adirondack isn't disrespectful at all...

 

[Goldenshark]

just an aside but can we please stop referring to hockey uniforms as "kits" from here on out? This isn't the UK. Hockey players wear "hockey sweaters". "kits" sounds pretentious. Call them jerseys if you're not down with tradition...

And I have to opine that all these singular noun names sound like they came from a marketing firm. "Scorch", "Heat", "Inferno" etc. Could no one come up with a proper plural noun for a group of hockey players? What's next. Will the parent club become the "Calgary Flame" just to be hip?

That's right, North American pride baby!
No more of those wimpy UK Soc-ca words!

BTW, isn't Thunder a singular noun? What about Tampa Bay Lightning and Minnesota Wild? I don't think it matters very much, I think you're reaching on that one.

 

[Seattle Totems]

I know I sound a little hypocritical because of the Thunder. I was lamenting the lack of any traditional plural noun names in that contest.
Singular nouns are nonsensical. A single member of the Sharks is a Shark. It sounds funny to refer to a single member of the Wild as a Wild... In the end I don't really care because it's not my team, but then again, I'd like to see Calgary do it right for once and have the AHL succeed. Reaching out to the fans would be a start.

 

[Hoodaha]

Getting back to the Flames, it's not surprising that they disrespected yet another local fanbase given their history in the AHL. When will they learn? AHL branding is only going to affect how well the local fan base takes to the team. Imposing the Flames brand on a local fan base that probably can't tell much difference between the ECHL and AHL is just not a good idea. It certainly didn't work when the Flames moved to Quad City and Abbotsford. Stockton Thunder was a decent brand that had equity with the fans. The Flames should have just kept the name or limited the suggestions to local submissions if it had to be changed.

Yeah, Californians don't know anything about hockey and can't tell if the players are skilled or not. Could you please explain the game to us some more? I mean, it's warm outside and it doesn't snow often, so Californians couldn't possibly understand the game, amiright? I mean, palm trees naturally prevent the understanding of the nuances of the game. That's science.

I'm going to enlighten you: Hockey isn't a new thing in California. The Kings have been here since 1966. The Sharks have been here since 1991. The Ducks have been here since 1993. There are a large number of cities in California that have had other teams as well. The San Diego Gulls date back to 1966. The California Golden Seals were around in 1967. The Bakersfield Kernals were around in 1962. Lots more too. California hockey fans know the game and can tell if the talent is there or not. Hockey history in California did not start with Gretzky, as the Canadian media would have you believe. It helped grow the game a whole lot, but the game was already here.

Fans are thrilled to have the AHL coming to the West Coast, as evidenced by the big turnout of 8,500 fans in San Diego just to hear the team's name announced. Minor league hockey has made big strides in California over the last 20 years.

In Bakersfield, the team played on a stage in a theater on small ice in front of 1,500-2,000 fans per game for semi-pro and early WCHL games, the upgrade in skill from semi-pro to the brand new WCHL was notable, then the move to the ECHL happened and there was another jump in skill - fans noticed each step of the way. The attendance has consistently been 4,500-5,500/game since Bakersfield was renamed Condors and moved into Rabobank Arena (then Centennial Garden). Now we're moving to the AHL, and players that were our best players this year and last year will now be our 4th liners or bench guys (or may not even make the team). Don't think that the fans won't notice that.

I agree with you on Calgary, they did a very bad job handling the naming of the Stockton team. They knew that the fans in Calgary would vote and align the name with the parent club. The whole thing was a farce. Contrast that with what the Oilers did - the team got to keep it's identity, despite the Oilers obvious desire to have an Oil themed team name in Bakersfield (they mentioned the Oil economy of Bakersfield multiple times in press conferences). Maybe they learned from their mistakes in OKC. Anyway, there will be sour grapes in Stockton, especially since the Condors and Reign got to keep their names (and San Diego got its beloved Gulls back rather than being baby Ducks or something of that ilk), but over time it will probably wane. It's hard to give up cheering for a team that you've invested in for 10 years.

 

[easternrefugee]

Yeah, Californians don't know anything about hockey and can't tell if the players are skilled or not. Could you please explain the game to us some more? I mean, it's warm outside and it doesn't snow often, so Californians couldn't possibly understand the game, amiright? I mean, palm trees naturally prevent the understanding of the nuances of the game. That's science.

I'm going to enlighten you: Hockey isn't a new thing in California. The Kings have been here since 1966. The Sharks have been here since 1991. The Ducks have been here since 1993. There are a large number of cities in California that have had other teams as well. The San Diego Gulls date back to 1966. The California Golden Seals were around in 1967. The Bakersfield Kernals were around in 1962. Lots more too. California hockey fans know the game and can tell if the talent is there or not. Hockey history in California did not start with Gretzky, as the Canadian media would have you believe. It helped grow the game a whole lot, but the game was already here.

Fans are thrilled to have the AHL coming to the West Coast, as evidenced by the big turnout of 8,500 fans in San Diego just to hear the team's name announced. Minor league hockey has made big strides in California over the last 20 years.

In Bakersfield, the team played on a stage in a theater on small ice in front of 1,500-2,000 fans per game for semi-pro and early WCHL games, the upgrade in skill from semi-pro to the brand new WCHL was notable, then the move to the ECHL happened and there was another jump in skill - fans noticed each step of the way. The attendance has consistently been 4,500-5,500/game since Bakersfield was renamed Condors and moved into Rabobank Arena (then Centennial Garden). Now we're moving to the AHL, and players that were our best players this year and last year will now be our 4th liners or bench guys (or may not even make the team). Don't think that the fans won't notice that.

I agree with you on Calgary, they did a very bad job handling the naming of the Stockton team. They knew that the fans in Calgary would vote and align the name with the parent club. The whole thing was a farce. Contrast that with what the Oilers did - the team got to keep it's identity, despite the Oilers obvious desire to have an Oil themed team name in Bakersfield (they mentioned the Oil economy of Bakersfield multiple times in press conferences). Maybe they learned from their mistakes in OKC. Anyway, there will be sour grapes in Stockton, especially since the Condors and Reign got to keep their names (and San Diego got its beloved Gulls back rather than being baby Ducks or something of that ilk), but over time it will probably wane. It's hard to give up cheering for a team that you've invested in for 10 years.

^5 and soooooo right!!!!! A-W-E-S-O-M-E post...thank you....

 

[Seattle Totems]

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a dig against hockey in the state of California or the US by any means. My thinking was that fans supported the ECHL and historical leagues so well that perhaps their personal investment in the brand was more important than the league they currently played in.

As you may tell by my avatar I'm a fan of the PCL/WHL teams from the 50's and 60's. I'd love to see the California Seals and San Diego Gulls back.

 

[Hoodaha]

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a dig against hockey in the state of California or the US by any means. My thinking was that fans supported the ECHL and historical leagues so well that perhaps their personal investment in the brand was more important than the league they currently played in.

As you may tell by my avatar I'm a fan of the PCL/WHL teams from the 50's and 60's. I'd love to see the California Seals and San Diego Gulls back.

No worries, I misunderstood. Hazard of these boards that there are a lot of digs at "non-traditional" markets.

Stockton built a brand for a decade and it's being torn down. My hope is that the fans rebound and realize that it's a win having better quality hockey, regardless of the name. I've heard horror stories in other markets of team names being dropped and the fans not taking it well...

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.recordnet.com/article/20150311/NEWS/150319937/101100/A_SPORTS

It'll be announced today as Stockton Heat

 

[GindyDraws]

The Calgary Flames on minor league teams: Economy first, Quality second.

After all, there's a reason why Adirondack is gonna be called the Thunder and not the Flames.

 

[aparch]

No worries, I misunderstood. Hazard of these boards that there are a lot of digs at "non-traditional" markets.

Stockton built a brand for a decade and it's being torn down. My hope is that the fans rebound and realize that it's a win having better quality hockey, regardless of the name. I've heard horror stories in other markets of team names being dropped and the fans not taking it well...

If it was any team other than Calgary at the helm of this name change, it might be better received. Calgary has a track record of slash-and-burning markets, local history bedamned.

Omaha was the only recent affilate location where the name actually meant something to the past. Quad City had the Mallards name/history dumped for an unimaginitive flaming QC and Flames name. Abbotsford had the equally unimaginitive Heat. Adirondack at least was made cool by the re-use of the Atlanta Flames A, but the unimaginitive name Flames.

Keeping the Stockton Thunder name, and just revising the logo that they gave to Adirondack would have been great.


If Inferno is the name, I really, really, really hope Calgary bought the rights to Columbia S.C.'s ECHL team. The ECHL Inferno had a good logo.

 

[Hoodaha]

If it was any team other than Calgary at the helm of this name change, it might be better received. Calgary has a track record of slash-and-burning markets, local history bedamned.

Omaha was the only recent affilate location where the name actually meant something to the past. Quad City had the Mallards name/history dumped for an unimaginitive flaming QC and Flames name. Abbotsford had the equally unimaginitive Heat. Adirondack at least was made cool by the re-use of the Atlanta Flames A, but the unimaginitive name Flames.

Keeping the Stockton Thunder name, and just revising the logo that they gave to Adirondack would have been great.


If Inferno is the name, I really, really, really hope Calgary bought the rights to Columbia S.C.'s ECHL team. The ECHL Inferno had a good logo.

The funny part is that Heat is one of the worst names even of their finalists. I think they should have kept Thunder and added some flames coming off of Thor and changed the color scheme somewhat. Missed opportunity, I guess.

 

[Seattle Totems]

pretty meh on the Flames recycled Heat moniker. Even more so if they recycle the Abbotsford Heat logo. They need to come up with something better than a wordmark logo. A dog or cat in estrus or a flaming "S" would be better.

 

[wildcat48]

I'd be willing to bet they'll recycle the Abbotsford jersey's with Stockton in the wordmark logo..... It's the Calgary way.

 

[hkymnky]

. A dog or cat in estrus

I really wish HFBoards supported some kind of up-voting system...because your post would get all of mine.

I love the internet.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

The Calgary Flames on minor league teams: Economy first, Quality second.

After all, there's a reason why Adirondack is gonna be called the Thunder and not the Flames.

Agree.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd be willing to bet they'll recycle the Abbotsford jersey's with Stockton in the wordmark logo..... It's the Calgary way.

I agree on the jersey part, but on the logo you clearly are mistaken; some may have been ugly (QC especially) but they weren't recycled (unless you count the Flaming A, in which recycling it was a good call)

All logos used by Flames AHL teams since the 93-94 season.