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That makes more sense. Kind of like the exceptional status in junior hockey.
AHL Age requirment
- Thread starter Isles Junkie
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That makes more sense. Kind of like the exceptional status in junior hockey.
I personally agree, 1 year is a nice compromise, 2 seems too long, 1 year still lets fans say "lets go check out that guy who was drafted 5th overall!" With the 2 year wait you get those players who aren't quite good enough to make deep NHL teams, but who are just way too good for the CHL more or less wasting their time there. Brayden Schenn would be a great example from last year. Can be a somewhat wasted development year for some of these guys IMO, and it's an arbitrary decision anyways, what makes CHL fans more "deserving" of these players than AHL fans, especially when it's not what the player himself wants?
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If the player wants it, I'm all for it. It just shouldn't be mandated by the league. I'll also say the AHL team has to release him for whatever country he decides to play for in the world juniors; if he wants to play for them.
Remember he has to be signed to a contract to play for the AHL team and some agents (most) will want a 2 way contract. In that sense it might get dicey.
Im all for letting kids into the AHL early. The problem with that logistically is that it would increase to cost to the NHL to transfer an 18 year old into the AHL. Right now transfer fees are extremely low due to the 4 year rule. If they open that up, it will cost more to the NHL. I dont know if alot of teams would be interested in that, but thats just me guessing. If the NHL was willing to do so, then all the power to them.
For me most 1st Round picks should have the option to take that route. It would effect maybe 15-20 kids a year who are the best. If it doesnt work out, then so be it, send them back to the CHL. The danger that you get is when 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc round picks are send to the AHL early, how does that effect their progress?
It will be interesting to see how the next transfer agreement between the CHL and the NHL goes down.
For me most 1st Round picks should have the option to take that route. It would effect maybe 15-20 kids a year who are the best. If it doesnt work out, then so be it, send them back to the CHL. The danger that you get is when 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc round picks are send to the AHL early, how does that effect their progress?
It will be interesting to see how the next transfer agreement between the CHL and the NHL goes down.
CowbellConray
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I hate how some players have to go back to the CHL.
Take Zack Kassian of the Sabres. Couldnt go to Portland, so scores at a 2.0 ppg pace in the OHL and then gets bored and slows down his possible development.
It's terrible
Take Zack Kassian of the Sabres. Couldnt go to Portland, so scores at a 2.0 ppg pace in the OHL and then gets bored and slows down his possible development.
It's terrible
I have yet to see a junior player who has played his 20 year old season in the CHL dominate.
People act like Brayden Schenn was some sort of Crosby/Gretzky-esque player who ran away with the league.
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins was more impressive.
It seems mostly American's are in favour of changing this rule....
Lots of players who "dominate" in their 20 year old season, still struggle in the AHL the next season.....I dont see why the transition would be any easier one year earlier, if they want to play against men, sign in Europe.
If the players become bored and stop trying then it reflects poorly on their character and work ethic, not that they've become "above their league".
People act like Brayden Schenn was some sort of Crosby/Gretzky-esque player who ran away with the league.
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins was more impressive.
It seems mostly American's are in favour of changing this rule....
Lots of players who "dominate" in their 20 year old season, still struggle in the AHL the next season.....I dont see why the transition would be any easier one year earlier, if they want to play against men, sign in Europe.
If the players become bored and stop trying then it reflects poorly on their character and work ethic, not that they've become "above their league".
R S
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Schenn did dominate, atleast down the stretch of the regular season. 2PPG is pretty damn solid.
Not saying that defeat's your point, just saying that might not be the best example.
Schenn flat out dominated at times.
Fair enough, I was only able to watch his playoff series against the Kootenay Ice where I thought he looked mediocre, although Kootenay looked dominant the entire WHL playoffs.
You obviously got to see a lot more Schenn than I have though...my point remains
I think your original point is fairly accurate thou, very rarely does a first round pick suffer from playing 3 or 4 years in the CHL.
Paranoid Android
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Ryan Ellis? It was pointless for him to go back to Jrs. He stepped in to the AHL playoffs and looked great immediately. We'll see how he does next year.
Maybe there can be some kind of exception for 1st round picks? Or players can file a request to get in 1 year early for those who are top of the class? I understand wanting to keep players in Juniors, but for the top end talents, it could slow their development IMO.
Ellis and Schenn are good examples, but other first round picks, guys like Watson, Hishon, Howden and such where deffinetly better off in the CHL. It would almost have to be a case by case basis, which is hard to do.
Fripp
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The CHL is the best developmental league in the world. If you would like it to remain that way, taking away the best players that still have junior eligibility and thus killing revenue would probably be a bad idea. I get that everyone wants to see their favorite team's favorite prospect go pro right away, but its simply better for the overall health of the development chain to protect the feeder leagues. It would be ridiculously short-sighted to ditch this rule.
But no one is really talking about ditching the rule altogether. Just tweaking it to allow "some" players to be able to play pro sooner in the AHL. The CHL would still remain some of the best development leagues in the world but also not hamper the develop of better prospects either.
As it is right now, a 19 yr old player can be in the AHL so long as his birthday is before Jan 1st. Which to me, thats stupid and too arbitrary to say that a 19 yr old born before the 1st of January is ready for the AHL but a kid born 1-2 weeks later isn't ready. Thats where I think the tweaking needs to happen.
As an example, Gudbranson is 19 and was born Jan 7th so he's got no choice but to go to the NHL or back to juniors. With what happened last season with his coach, the state of his junior team, and the fact he's physically more mature than a lot of junior-aged players, it doesnt make any sense for him to go back to juniors. But then FL went out and brought in 2 top 4 d-men this summer and their defense is deep enough that they don't need to rush him either. The best thing for him and the team would be to play in the AHL where he would get plenty of icetime. But due to the rule, he's not allowed which just doesn't make any sense, period.
Gudbranson is a poor choice to use as an example in my opinion. He may be bigger, but his play last year was arguably his worst since entering the league. If it was a merit based decision, then he would be one of the last players I would suggest playing in the AHL next year.
I still love his potential, (based from my first viewing of him as a Bantom in Ottawa), but last year was not a good one, and the argument could be made that moving to another team in the CHL would be better for him then the AHL.
Its moot either way, he will be in the NHL this year, and hopefully thrive.
I'm pretty sure you'd be in the minority in that opinion. Gudbranson showed a lot to Panthers brass with his performance in the WJC tournament and the 2nd half of his season. He definitely showed he has more of an offensive game which was a knock against him when drafted. If you ignore the suspensions, everything about him suggests he doesn't belong in the OHL anymore. We just got to see him against all our other prospects at the team development camp and trust me, he was a man amongst boys there so yes he merits the promotion to the pro ranks.
Moving to another CHL team might be better yes but that's not going to be an option until midseason and really then wouldn't be better for him than the AHL. In the AHL, the team can monitor his progress more closely and help him reach his potential. Regardless, you're right that he'll be in the NHL most likely this yr and will be fine but I think even the Panthers org would prefer if he could play in the AHL right now.
Isles Junkie
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Nino Niederreiter is another one (and really the 1 player I had in mind when making this thread) who would be best served playing 2011-12 in the AHL. But he's not eligible. He very likely won't be going back to Portland, so the WHL is losing one of their better players anyway. He might as well be in the league that is best for his development.
In my circle of contacts, most had him as playing a pretty poor year. I was able to go see him play about 5-6 times over the course of the year, and he was deffinetly not performing the same way as he was the year before, everyone in the rink agreed there.
Regardless, he will be in the NHL next year, so the debate is moot.
TaketheCannoli
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IMO, while this deal is clear protectionism for the CHL, the real folly is that kids can either play in the NHL or go back to juniors. I think it's just too big of a step for many kids who may be ready for better competition than juniors can offer. I'm also not so sure the AHL is such a great option either. Too many guys with limited talent looking to make a name there. Destroying a top prospect is too enticing for them.
I'd like to see some sort of super major juniors program. Maybe organizations like Hockey Canada and USA Hockey along with the organizations from other major hockey playing nations could put together national teams.
I don't know. The options today are weak. I don't think it will help players like Gudbranson and Johansen to toy with opponents and have little in the way of challenge this upcoming season if they return to juniors.
Minnesota had this problem when they first drafted Schultz. Too good to be in the CHL, still too green for the NHL. They weren't happy with his development in the CHL (And to be fair, if you don't like the coaching, there isn't much you can do with the CHL as you can in the NCAA).
They were stuck between a crossroad with Bouchard. Dominated his league and didn't have as much to learn as he could have in the AHL.
They were stuck between a crossroad with Bouchard. Dominated his league and didn't have as much to learn as he could have in the AHL.
I don't think anyone is saying that there should be some kind of rule forcing CHL players into the AHL, those arguing against the current rule in this thread are just suggesting that prospects who can make their AHL team and who want to move up should be allowed to do so at 19 instead of 20 (i.e. have to spend at least 1 post-draft season in the CHL before being allowed to move on to the AHL, instead of at least 2 post draft seasons in the CHL). The current rule is that CHL players must be 20 years old (by Dec 31st of that AHL season) to play in the AHL, or they must have played 4 years in the CHL. It doesn't say that they HAVE to play in the AHL then, just that they're able to, if younger or less experienced in the CHL they're banned from the AHL, while non-CHL players (Europeans, etc.) can join at 18.
One interesting idea would be to let CHL and NHL teams negotiate a "transfer fee" that the NHL team could pay the CHL team. Basically, if the NHL team would like to see their prospect in the AHL before he's 20/has 4 CHL years, they'd have to work out a payment with the CHL team to compensate for the lost revenues that a star player would bring in. It'd be minimal money for an NHL team (and fully optional regardless, you could just let the prospect develop in the CHL instead of the AHL, i.e. the status quo), but insignificant money for an NHL team is still significant money for a CHL team, the extra money could keep them financially healthy (helps Maineiacs-type teams to avoid folding), could be put towards advertising to attract new fans, etc. So prospects who are ready to move on early could do so without screwing the CHL teams.
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Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
Seems like this comes up every six months or so. The following is a piece I wrote last season about Schenn and the CHL/NHL agreement. I still stand by it:
http://futureconsiderationsdotca.wo...onsider-this-time-to-ammend-nhlchl-agreement/
http://futureconsiderationsdotca.wo...onsider-this-time-to-ammend-nhlchl-agreement/
I don't care if it's 1 or 2 years, but what I do care about is they should have a special eligibility program that the OHL currently has for it's selection draft. IE Aaron Ekblad and Tavares.
Brayden Schenn definitely should have played last year in the AHL.
Brayden Schenn definitely should have played last year in the AHL.
