Agents and advisors

[Banffboy70]

Hello all,

My son has been approached by a couple of advisors. He currently plays U15AAA in Alberta, Canada. Is it worth exploring at this point?

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[MiamiHockeyII]

Hello all,

My son has been approached by a couple of advisors. He currently plays U15AAA in Alberta, Canada. Is it worth exploring at this point?

Don't sign anything with anyone. Don't pay anything to anyone.

There are some good "advisors" out there, but it's the wild west. At U15AAA you are close enough to the WHL that you can taste it, but still far enough away from it that you should keep all (NCAA) options open. You would be amazed how frequently the top U15AAA players barely play a game of Jr A whereas lesser U15 players grow and become WHL regulars. Each player's path is different.

Listen to as many opinions as you can, but form your own opinion about what is best for your son, and follow that, not what any one advisor tells you.

 

[Banffboy70]

Thanks Miami H. At this point, I think I will just focus on getting him in front of junior hockey decision-makers at u-15 spring camps. I spend enough money getting him through AAA as it is.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Don't sign anything with anyone. Don't pay anything to anyone.

There are some good "advisors" out there, but it's the wild west. At U15AAA you are close enough to the WHL that you can taste it, but still far enough away from it that you should keep all (NCAA) options open. You would be amazed how frequently the top U15AAA players barely play a game of Jr A whereas lesser U15 players grow and become WHL regulars. Each player's path is different.

Listen to as many opinions as you can, but form your own opinion about what is best for your son, and follow that, not what any one advisor tells you.

This is correct.

Unless he's a potential first or second round pick, stay away from "advisors" who will steer him to the Major Junior route - a few games there and it's a long, involved process to play NCAA hockey at all.

If you're approached by an advisor, you also need to deeply research who they are and their background. There's one junior hockey advisor out there who is literally a convicted felon, and parents actually trust his advice. It's absurd.

If your kid is playing U15AAA, scouts already know who he is. You need good guidance and you need to ACTUALLY TALK TO YOUR SON AND FIND OUT WHAT HE WANTS. He might not be academically inclined, but the Major Junior education package is very deceptive and difficult to use. Or he may want to play hockey as a means to get a good education. Either way, it should be as much about what he wants as possible.

And do not - DO NOT - give an advisor any money without thoroughly researching them first.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

He might not be academically inclined, but the Major Junior education package is very deceptive and difficult to use. Or he may want to play hockey as a means to get a good education. Either way, it should be as much about what he wants as possible.

Easy there, Eddie. What you write above is patently false.

1) The CHL education package is part of a legally binding contract that is administered centrally by the league. You just have to fill out a few forms to get the funds.

2) The idea that a hockey player should go the NCAA route to "get a good education" is not just ridiculous, for Canadians the opposite is actually a more accurate statement. If a Canadian really wants a good education, they should stay in Canada. Yes, the NCAA has Harvard, Yale, and Princeton (none of which offer full scholarships, BTW), but it also has St Lawrence, MSU-Mankato and AIC (among other low-ranking schools). A CHL scholarship that covers five years at UBC, Alberta, McGill, or Dalhousie, is worth more than any NCAA full ride.

3) This board is frequented by academics, college and athletics administrators, coaches, and scouts. Please don't think you can spout falsehoods about either the CHL or NCAA without being called out.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Easy there, Eddie. What you write above is patently false.

1) The CHL education package is part of a legally binding contract that is administered centrally by the league. You just have to fill out a few forms to get the funds.

2) The idea that a hockey player should go the NCAA route to "get a good education" is not just ridiculous, for Canadians the opposite is actually a more accurate statement. If a Canadian really wants a good education, they should stay in Canada. Yes, the NCAA has Harvard, Yale, and Princeton (none of which offer full scholarships, BTW), but it also has St Lawrence, MSU-Mankato and AIC (among other low-ranking schools). A CHL scholarship that covers five years at UBC, Alberta, McGill, or Dalhousie, is worth more than any NCAA full ride.

3) This board is frequented by academics, college and athletics administrators, coaches, and scouts. Please don't think you can spout falsehoods about either the CHL or NCAA without being called out.

First of all, while the CHL education package is a binding contract, the benefits disappear pretty quickly if you go on to play professional hockey.

You also only get one year of school as part of the education package for each season played in the CHL - so if you need five years to get through, say, Dalhousie, you'd better hope you've played enough Major Junior to cover it. The average CHL player doesn't play in the CHL long enough for the package to cover them completing a bachelor's degree.

There are also rules on where you can use the package, largely based on where you live and/or what team you play for - so while you COULD go to Dal, McGill, or Queen's, you likely won't be able to unless you grew up near those schools or played near those schools.

And if you play one season and one game of pro hockey - at any level - your education package goes poof. How much is it worth then?

Did you forget about that?

If you think SLU is a low-ranking school, or that the CHL education package is better because "the Ivy League schools don't give scholarships," you're just proving how little you actually know about those schools. The Ivies give every student the opportunity to attend regardless of financial need - so it's pretty likely that if your family is even middle class, you're going to be paying significantly less than full price.

How do I know this?

My wife is a teacher and college counselor at a Northeastern prep school with a hockey program that puts kids into the USHL annually.

Like you said, don't think you can spout falsehoods about either the CHL or NCAA without being called out.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Dude. I respect you consulting your wife, but everything you write below is inaccurate.

First of all, while the CHL education package is a binding contract, the benefits disappear pretty quickly if you go on to play professional hockey.

And if you play one season and one game of pro hockey - at any level - your education package goes poof. How much is it worth then?

Did you forget about that?

Yes, Connor McDavid is not getting an Education Package from the OHL. But, what you write is not accurate. It's only if you play a full year of pro after the age of 21.

But I'm curious ... what kind of scholarships do NCAA teams offer their players who even attend a Pro camp, much less play a game of Pro?

You also only get one year of school as part of the education package for each season played in the CHL - so if you need five years to get through, say, Dalhousie, you'd better hope you've played enough Major Junior to cover it. The average CHL player doesn't play in the CHL long enough for the package to cover them completing a bachelor's degree.

Inaccurate. The CHL also pays for university tuition while a player is in the league ... so an 18, 19, 20 year old who takes courses part-time while playing in the CHL only needs 3 years to complete their degree. If you look at USports rosters you'll see them littered with ex-CHL players doing Graduate studies because of this.

There are also rules on where you can use the package, largely based on where you live and/or what team you play for - so while you COULD go to Dal, McGill, or Queen's, you likely won't be able to unless you grew up near those schools or played near those schools.

That sentence is a bald-faced lie.

The amount of the CHL package is based on the tuition of the university the player identifies which can be either in their home state/province OR where their current team is located. That establishes a baseline amount. But the player can apply that scholarship to ANY post-secondary institution.

I once recruited a WHL player from Vancouver Island who played in Saskatoon, Lethbridge, and Portland, used the first three years of his package to pay tuition and books at Military College in Ontario, and the last two years to fund his PhD in Regina.

If you think SLU is a low-ranking school, or that the CHL education package is better because "the Ivy League schools don't give scholarships," you're just proving how little you actually know about those schools. The Ivies give every student the opportunity to attend regardless of financial need - so it's pretty likely that if your family is even middle class, you're going to be paying significantly less than full price.

SLU is a Liberal Arts college, which by definition makes it a low-ranking school.

Ivy League school packages are never full, and are based on household income. If you're a middle-class Canadian you're looking at an unaffordable amount.

How do I know this?

My wife is a teacher and college counselor at a Northeastern prep school with a hockey program that puts kids into the USHL annually.

So, all of her advice is based on the inaccuracies you state above about the CHL?

I understand that the NCAA vs CHL calculus will be different for prep school kids from New England versus middle-class kids from Canada. But, so should you.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

A large part of the CHL package depends on when you were selected in the league draft.

The lower you were selected, the less you get.

What do those kids get?

Maybe learn something about liberal arts college (I went to another one in the ECAC) before you dump on them. Not everywhere is Harvard. Not everywhere is Manitoba, either.

Fact: The CHL is a for-profit business that exploits unpaid child labor with the illusory offers of "education packages" that, if you aren't drafted in the first two rounds of the league draft, aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

The reality is that most CHL players don't play long enough to get packages like you say "your recruit" got. It's in the CHL's interest to offer the best prospects the moon. They'll never have to pay for educating the top players who go on to play pro hockey, who will be either able to pay for their education themselves or never need the package.

It also allows them to stiff a lot of kids.

Did you forget that part?

 

[Banffboy70]

is it difficult as a Canadian to get your kid onto a USHL team?

 

[AUS Fan]

is it difficult as a Canadian to get your kid onto a USHL team?

I would think that if your kid can play at that level, a team will take him. But, BCHL and other Junior A leagues serve the same purpose.

 

[dm8895]

I would think that if your kid can play at that level, a team will take him. But, BCHL and other Junior A leagues serve the same purpose.

In the internet age, if you are good enough they will find you.

 

[Banffboy70]

Thanks all. Looking at things over the past few years, there is no doubt in my mind that the US has a superior hockey development model and program compared to the disaster we call Hockey Canada.

 

[AUS Fan]

Thanks all. Looking at things over the past few years, there is no doubt in my mind that the US has a superior hockey development model and program compared to the disaster we call Hockey Canada.

It's all about the Money. And a population 10 times that of Canada.

 

[Banffboy70]

True. like Hockey Canada spending 3 million on hush money payouts for sexual abuse. Could have used that money towards the development program!

It probably happens south of the border too, I guess.

 

[Banffboy70]

I also wonder what peoples thoughts are on accepting a WHL offer as a low draft pick vs. holding off and waiting for next year. Betting on your kids ability to improve.

 

[AUS Fan]

True. like Hockey Canada spending 3 million on hush money payouts for sexual abuse. Could have used that money towards the development program!

It probably happens south of the border too, I guess.

I think the Americans are more aware of stuff than HC, but things do fall through the cracks.

 

[AUS Fan]

I also wonder what peoples thoughts are on accepting a WHL offer as a low draft pick vs. holding off and waiting for next year. Betting on your kids ability to improve.

Then this "mythical" kid is a year older and less likely to get selected by a CHL team. He would have to refuse to go the the team that drafted him, and they don't like that.

 

[Banffboy70]

Perhaps, but if you lock yourself in with one team as a lower draft pick, you may never play or even worse, become a reliable AP player they don't want to release. Maybe it is best to accept the risk, and if you have no further interest in the WHL you still have AJHL or BCHL as options. Just spit balling for a mythical friend

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Late to this discussion, but worth considering that the CHL education package is good even if you have to retire from hockey. Blow out your knee in 3rd year of Major Junior? Still get three years of tuition covered at a Canadian university, college or trade school.

NCAA scholarships are only guaranteed for your first year. Don't perform to Coach's expectations? Your scholie is cut in half, or going completely to someone else. Good luck with that 25K to 50K tuition...

 

[timbitca]

Late to this discussion, but worth considering that the CHL education package is good even if you have to retire from hockey. Blow out your knee in 3rd year of Major Junior? Still get three years of tuition covered at a Canadian university, college or trade school.

NCAA scholarships are only guaranteed for your first year. Don't perform to Coach's expectations? Your scholie is cut in half, or going completely to someone else. Good luck with that 25K to 50K tuition...

I almost got in a fight with a USA Hockey recruiter this past weekend at a U16AAA Tournament here in town.

He was talking about the coming partnership between the CHL and NCAA, saying how it was the best thing since sliced bread. How graduating CHL players could go play D2 hockey, get a great education and it wouldn't cost them much. Apparently my arguement that any of our teams would wipe a D2 team, the education was just as good and kids would likely walk away with money in their pockets versus having to pay crazy tuitions wasn't good enough. Besides, some degrees from the states don't even translate well to Canada anyways, though this may be more of an issue for the francophones.

 

[Banffboy70]

If the CHL and NCAA come to an agreement, it will destroy U-sport in Canada and likely AJHL, BCHL and other leagues. I also feel it is unlikely to happen, as the powerful schools in the NCAA are happy being the big dogs. It's the smaller schools that want it. That's said, the hockey landscape in Canada is all over the place these day's so who knows?

 

[AUS Fan]

If the CHL and NCAA come to an agreement, it will destroy U-sport in Canada and likely AJHL, BCHL and other leagues. I also feel it is unlikely to happen, as the powerful schools in the NCAA are happy being the big dogs. It's the smaller schools that want it. That's said, the hockey landscape in Canada is all over the place these day's so who knows

Time will tell....

 

[AUS Fan]

I almost got in a fight with a USA Hockey recruiter this past weekend at a U16AAA Tournament here in town.

He was talking about the coming partnership between the CHL and NCAA, saying how it was the best thing since sliced bread. How graduating CHL players could go play D2 hockey, get a great education and it wouldn't cost them much. Apparently my arguement that any of our teams would wipe a D2 team, the education was just as good and kids would likely walk away with money in their pockets versus having to pay crazy tuitions wasn't good enough. Besides, some degrees from the states don't even translate well to Canada anyways, though this may be more of an issue for the francophones.

Are you sure he said D2 hockey and not D1? There are six schools in the US that have D2 hockey with a total of Three Canadians.

 

[timbitca]

Are you sure he said D2 hockey and not D1? There are six schools in the US that have D2 hockey with a total of Three Canadians.

Positive. Made his arguement all the more ridiculous.

 

[Banffboy70]

If it's D2,D3 maybe its good for them as all the AJHL, BCHL and USHL players will be more available to them as D1 will take CHL players first.