Addressing Player Development in OKC

[Hockey Buddha]

After what would seem to be another successful season of Baron's hockey and a decent playoff run, I was thinking about Jonathon Willis' recent June 4th article about the OKC Barons receiving more defined parameters from the parent club about who plays.

Willis wrote: "Is the root cause of those players’ problems related to coaching, or to missed opportunities because veterans were being given minutes? Personally, I doubt it. However, MacTavish is clearly emphasizing that prospects will be given every opportunity to play important minutes in the minors, and acquiring veterans to fill holes is going to be less of a priority going forward. Put shortly, the organization is going to worry less about wins and losses in the minors and more about making sure the farm team produces viable players for the NHL club."

In my mind, this is an important issue that needs to be addressed, as there is a clog in the pipeline in developing young talent. Young players, drafted early in the draft (1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders), who should have a legitimate albeit outside shot of playing in the NHL are sitting in the PB in favour of veteran AHL players, whose opportunity to play in the NHL has long since faded.

Understandably, it is a difficult balance to strike for an AHL coach, between winning and simultaneously developing young talent. These are quite often competing interests, and I cannot blame the coaching staff for trying to create a winning team with veteran players, but the cost of this is a lack of player development in some players who potentially could become NHL roster players. We have several players who experienced significant success in junior but have seriously faltered developmentally in OKC to this point, having their careers sidetracked temporarily and their confidence shaken by not being afforded an opportunity to play.

My concerns lie with the handing of the following situations with young players:

• Curtis Hamilton, drafted in the 2nd round (48th overall) sits in the PB, while former NHLer Josh Green, 35, plays.
• Ryan Martindale, drafted in the 3rd round (61st overall) sits in the PB in favour of Tanner House.
• Tyler Pitlick, drafted in the 2nd round (31st overall) is moved from centre (an area of need for the Oilers) to the right wing, while House plays centre on the fourth line.
• Colten Teubert, drafted in the 1st (13th overall) sitting in the PB.

I agree that a winning culture is important and players should have to work into roles, but development occurs most markedly from players playing in game situations, not sitting in the PB. IMO our organization has to improve with player development in a way that is more balanced. MacTavish is quite correct in addressing this imo, as we have young draftees sitting and a coaching staff in OKC playing veteran players. There is an obvious trade off: maintaining a winning culture vs. developing players, but imo the OKC coaching staff is a little negligent on the development side of some potentially significant player pieces.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this...

Click to read more...

 

[McShiva]

Hamilton, Martindale and Teubert are sitting in the press box because they deserve to based on their play. IMO Teubert will be flushed this summer (as well as Plante) and several others as there is a big crop of first year pros coming.

As to Pitlick, you may have a point, but then he is only just now starting to pick it up after a disappointing season. The Oilers have been real bad at developing players in the minor leagues, so the change with MacT is welcome to develop them a bit farther than before. A prime example of a well run team that handles their prospect better and gets them better prepared for the NHL is the team that just beat the Barons, which is Detroit's farm club.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

I don't mind the competition from veteran players because that is what those prospects will have to face in the NHL.

However, I still want to see prospects play as much as possible.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

In a way it makes the most sense to play your prospects lots to see what the scouting staff has been pumping out of the drafts. That said having an "all kids" team would be a potentially bad situation. Next season we should see guys like Pitlick, Hamilton, and Martindale playing a ton, if they can't cut the mustard as legit top 9 AHL forwards at that point then the odds of them being busts are all but certain. We should see guys like Marincin, Davidson, Kelfbom (possibly), Kessy, Roy, etc. playing a ton next season.

 

[Tarus]

It's pretty obvious that having a successful minor league organization will no longer be a priority, and instead of making rookies earn their ice time, they will be force fed time even if they can't handle it.

Oh well, hope OKC fans(the few of them there are) enjoyed the playoffs, because you won't be seeing them again anytime soon.

 

[Bangers]

I have no problem with the way OKC has been run. If a player like Pitlick/Hamilton/etc. can't beat out Josh Green at the age of 21, they don't deserve to play. Putting players in roles they don't deserve/can't handle = recipe for failure.

 

[tiger_80]

This is probably a bit more complex than winning in the AHL vs developing prospects. Would Marincin, Davidson, Rajala do as well as they did (and got serious play-off experience to boot), if they were surrounded with Teubert, Plante, Martindale, Hamilton etc.

It is important that prospects get ice-time, but let's face it, not all prospects are worth developing. At this point, there's little sense in playing Plante, Teubert, VandeVelde, Cornet etc over AHL vets unless they themselves assume roles typically allocated to Greens and Jones' of the world.

 

[tiger_80]

This is probably a bit more complex than winning in the AHL vs developing prospects. Would Marincin, Davidson, Rajala do as well as they did (and got serious play-off experience to boot), if they were surrounded with Teubert, Plante, Martindale, Hamilton etc.

It is important that prospects get ice-time, but let's face it, not all prospects are worth developing. At this point, there's little sense in playing Plante, Teubert, VandeVelde, Cornet etc over AHL vets unless they themselves assume roles typically allocated to Greens and Jones' of the world.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I have no problem with the way OKC has been run. If a player like Pitlick/Hamilton/etc. can't beat out Josh Green at the age of 21, they don't deserve to play. Putting players in roles they don't deserve/can't handle = recipe for failure.

Pretty much this^

Mact is going to let the Barons degrade to Springfield levels again in an effort to try and get blood out of the stones they drafted and traded for. I guess changing the culture of losing and having players earn their spots is no longer a priority.

 

[McDavidMcCup]

Pretty much this^

Mact is going to let the Barons degrade to Springfield levels again in an effort to try and get blood out of the stones they drafted and traded for. I guess changing the culture of losing and having players earn their spots is no longer a priority.

Sorry but this is simply not the case. There is a winning recipe to the AHL- bring in AHL veterans in certain positions and shelter your new draft picks. Stauffer on 630 has referred to R. Daum's manifesto that he submitted to the Oilers after being released on how to win in the AHL.

In an interview with Nelson this year, he himself admitted that there were games that he didn't ice the best team in an effort to give the prospects more playing time.

I agree with the OP; the emphasis going forward should not be to win with AHL vets like Green, but rather to work on development.

Does Pitlick have a future?
Is Musil's footspeed going to limit him in his professional career?

I would like to know. Even if it means there are years the team misses the playoffs.

 

[Hockey Monkey]

[*]Curtis Hamilton, drafted in the 2nd round (48th overall) sits in the PB, while former NHLer Josh Green, 35, plays.

Hamilton played regularly all season, he blew out his knee in the Charlotte series. Also he's really bad.

Ryan Martindale, drafted in the 3rd round (61st overall) sits in the PB in favour of Tanner House.

Martindale really isn't ready for the AHL yet. If he can't displace Tanner House then he should be in the ECHL.

Tyler Pitlick, drafted in the 2nd round (31st overall) is moved from centre (an area of need for the Oilers) to the right wing, while House plays centre on the fourth line.

Pitlick played much, much better on the wing than he ever did at center.

Colten Teubert, drafted in the 1st (13th overall) sitting in the PB.

He earned it. You can throw Plante (another 1st rounder) in there as well.


You seem to think that being highly drafted entitles these guys to playing time. If they aren't willing or able to come in and earn a spot on an AHL roster, why do you think they'll be able to do so in the NHL? All of the guys you mentioned above have gotten a lot of games in the AHL, it isn't like they're being denied the opportunity.

 

[cbear42]

This isn't a black and white issue to me. Yes you want to see your young prospects play, but isn't there something to be said for earning your playing time? What about that 'Winning atmosphere' everyone was talking about before?

There is a line that needs to be walked IMO, could they do a little more to push the development of some along? Sure. But loading a team up with prospects that will inevitably be near the bottom of the table perennially will do little to help....IMHO.

 

[Auguste McEscoffier]

If Hamilton, Pitlick and Martindale are unable to contribute offensively, Scott can't remain with his hands under his ass waiting for the day to come. He too has to ice a competitive team, so I don't blame him for signing veterans.

 

[Supermassive]

MacT is obviously looking to the next batch of junior graduates entering the farm system. He notes that OKC coaching/management is asking for more input on who to play, in what situations. He's going to play a greater role advising the coaching staff than Tambo did. Makes perfect sense.

Ewanyk
Kessy
Moroz
Pelss
Marincin
Musil
Olivier Roy

All guys that will receive all the minutes they can handle. Add a few Euros willing to take a shot at the NA game, and we should see quite the roster upheaval in the next two years. Rebuilding the whole organization to play a big man's game. Arrows are pointing up.

 

[joestevens29]

Damned if you do damned if you don't. Do you play all rookies becoming one of the worse teams in the league and then hope that they develop while losing?

The one thing I did read that we need to do going forward is play a similar system in OKC and in Edmonton, so that players can come in and know what to do right away.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Sorry but this is simply not the case. There is a winning recipe to the AHL- bring in AHL veterans in certain positions and shelter your new draft picks. Stauffer on 630 has referred to R. Daum's manifesto that he submitted to the Oilers after being released on how to win in the AHL.

Wtf does he know about winning in the AHL or developing NHL prospects?

That's like hiring Willy Loman to be your Director of Sales.

In an interview with Nelson this year, he himself admitted that there were games that he didn't ice the best team in an effort to give the prospects more playing time.

So what's the problem?

I agree with the OP; the emphasis going forward should not be to win with AHL vets like Green, but rather to work on development.

Putting players in roles they arent ready for and/or repeatedly fail at is not development.

Does Pitlick have a future?

No.

Is Musil's footspeed going to limit him in his professional career?

Is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear **** in the woods?

I would like to know. Even if it means there are years the team misses the playoffs.

So you are saying we should go back to what we were doing in Springfield? That was a smashing success.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Hamilton played regularly all season, he blew out his knee in the Charlotte series. Also he's really bad.



Martindale really isn't ready for the AHL yet. If he can't displace Tanner House then he should be in the ECHL.



Pitlick played much, much better on the wing than he ever did at center.




He earned it. You can throw Plante (another 1st rounder) in there as well.


You seem to think that being highly drafted entitles these guys to playing time. If they aren't willing or able to come in and earn a spot on an AHL roster, why do you think they'll be able to do so in the NHL? All of the guys you mentioned above have gotten a lot of games in the AHL, it isn't like they're being denied the opportunity.

Great post and thanks for sharing a perspective of someone who watches the team regularly.

 

[CupofOil]

I think Stauffer and some others are getting their panties in a bunch for no reason.
I understand that OKC is a minor league club designed for the purpose of developing Oiler prospects but a part of developing them properly is making them earn their roster spot as opposed to just handing it to them. Listening to Stauffer, he seems to think that guys like Hamilton, Martindale, Pitlick etc. are getting somewhat shafted because they haven't been handed enough playing time.

As has been mentioned, the reason why the vets like Green, Cheechoo, Arcobello etc. are getting more playing time is because they have been better, bottom line.
I see Stauffer complaining that there's a developmental problem due to the treatment of the prospects. No, the problem is that the draftees just aren't good enough right now. It's not fair to the other players on the team who earned their keep to place these underperforming prospects into prominent roles merely because they are potential Oilers down the road.

The one thing that Stauffer hinted at which i do tend to agree with (and he pointed to the Sens model as a reference) is that the Barons should employ a system similar to the Oilers so that when these players get called up to the big club, the transition is smoother because they will familiar with the system.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I think Stauffer and some others are getting their panties in a bunch for no reason.
I understand that OKC is a minor league club designed for the purpose of developing Oiler prospects but a part of developing them properly is making them earn their roster spot as opposed to just handing it to them. Listening to Stauffer, he seems to think that guys like Hamilton, Martindale, Pitlick etc. are getting somewhat shafted because they haven't been handed enough playing time.

As has been mentioned, the reason why the vets like Green, Cheechoo, Arcobello etc. are getting more playing time is because they have been better, bottom line.
I see Stauffer complaining that there's a developmental problem due to the treatment of the prospects. No, the problem is that the draftees just aren't good enough right now. It's not fair to the other players on the team who earned their keep to place these underperforming prospects into prominent roles merely because they are potential Oilers down the road.

The one thing that Stauffer hinted at which i do tend to agree with (and he pointed to the Sens model as a reference) is that the Barons should employ a system similar to the Oilers so that when these players get called up to the big club, the transition is smoother because they will familiar with the system.

That's all well and good if the system the Oilers are using is a good one. It seems pretty apparent that it is not.

 

[Skm]

Wtf does he know about winning in the AHL or developing NHL prospects?

Had 108 points with the Houston Aeros and then the Oilers literally gave him **** all to work with in Springfield so he floundered like anyone would have.

 

[Supermassive]

That's all well and good if the system the Oilers are using is a good one. It seems pretty apparent that it is not.

Probably because you can't play the desired system with the current roster.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Probably because you can't play the desired system with the current roster.

I dont know. Defensemen chasing guys out to the blueline........its like we are playing man to man. Krueger must think he is Phil Jackson.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Had 108 points with the Houston Aeros and then the Oilers literally gave him **** all to work with in Springfield so he floundered like anyone would have.

He made the playoffs once in four years and lost in the second round.

"A small man can be just as exhausted as a great man."

 

[Supermassive]

I dont know. Defensemen chasing guys out to the blueline........its like we are playing man to man. Krueger must think he is Phil Jackson.

Good...point. God that was horrific to watch. D-men that went for a Sunday stroll. Forwards who couldn't anticipate and cover for it.

I'd hope that with bigger, faster...better...players, that we could aggressively pin and overpower attackers in the d-zone. That's part of the system I'm hoping for this year. Not the typical undersized backchecking waterbugs hoping to get a stick in someone's skates during a two minute d-zone fire drill.

God, the horror. If MacT upgrades the personnel and we still see this crap, Ralph's head should roll. He's probably best suited for the Associate Coach role anyway. Give the reins and system control to Maurice and let Ralph coach his principles.

 

[dem]

Curtis Hamilton.. Ryan Martindale? These guys are write offs at this point. They can't hack it.

Give Kristians Pelss a spot over those bums.