Abbotsford Flames to Utica?

[axecrew]

As a Canucks fan, I am really hoping we can gain control of a franchise in Abby. As I live close by Abbotsford.

Its really a failure, the only time they draw anything half decent is when the Wolves (or prior Moose) came to town.

I think the taxpayers in Abby aren't to happy about continuing to pour money into the thing, and the government has changed since the agreement to bring the team in was made, I'm pretty sure the new government isn't too thrilled about the situation either.

There seem to be alot of possibilities. Maybe the Flames take Chicago if St.Louis sticks it out in Peoria, although from there POV, I would think Chicago would be of interest to them seeing as it is one of the better franchises in the AHL, and they wouldn't have to own it.

That's really the issue for us, we want to own the team so the prospects can get more opportunity, aswell as being close, getting used to tough travel, and it being a good draw for fans in the lower mainland.

What prospects? Connauton who has regressed to the point of being terrible. Schneider,Rodin who can't stay healthy...who do you really honestly consider a prospect that isn't playing in Chicago?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

What prospects? Connauton who has regressed to the point of being terrible. Schneider,Rodin who can't stay healthy...who do you really honestly consider a prospect that isn't playing in Chicago?

Connaution had a bad start, but a good 2nd half. He's still a prospect. Rodin has been in and out of the line-up and given little opportunity on top of battling injures. It would still be great to give him some opportunity.

Then we also have some guys on the Wolves aside from those two.

As for your other question.

Henrik Tommernes, Alex Mallet, Jeremy Price, Kellan Lain, Ludwig Blomstrand, Joe Cannata, Alex Grenier, exc.

The Wolves focus on bringing in Veterans and winning. They don't have given prospects opportunity high up on there priority list, and if we could get our own AHL franchise we could control the entire thing and give them icetime and opportunity.

 

[axecrew]

Connaution had a bad start, but a good 2nd half. He's still a prospect. Rodin has been in and out of the line-up and given little opportunity on top of battling injures. It would still be great to give him some opportunity.

Then we also have some guys on the Wolves aside from those two.

As for your other question.

Henrik Tommernes, Alex Mallet, Jeremy Price, Kellan Lain, Ludwig Blomstrand, Joe Cannata, Alex Grenier, exc.

The Wolves focus on bringing in Veterans and winning. They don't have given prospects opportunity high up on there priority list, and if we could get our own AHL franchise we could control the entire thing and give them icetime and opportunity.

Dude seriously???????? Henrik Tommernes is who??? He's a player no one in Chicago has heard of who is not even on Chicago's roster, kind of hard to play a guy who doesn't exist.
Alex Mallet and Grenier have both been given opportunities in Chicago this season and done absolutely nothing with them unless you consider running around looking lost something.
Jeremy Price has played in EVERY game since getting to Chicago. Don't know how he could play more than that.
Kellan Lain just got here and what do you know he palyed in tonight's game....the Wolves first game since he arrived.
Ludwig Blomstrand not even sure if this guy is even in Chicago yet but even if he is they've play only tonight's game since this guy was acquired.
The only guy that you might have a beef on is Cannata...and quite honestly he was very unimpressive in the ECHL this year.

All in all your statement lacks any validity and is based on personal feelings with no basis in fact at all.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Dude seriously???????? Henrik Tommernes is who??? He's a player no one in Chicago has heard of who is not even on Chicago's roster, kind of hard to play a guy who doesn't exist.
Alex Mallet and Grenier have both been given opportunities in Chicago this season and done absolutely nothing with them unless you consider running around looking lost something.
Jeremy Price has played in EVERY game since getting to Chicago. Don't know how he could play more than that.
Kellan Lain just got here and what do you know he palyed in tonight's game....the Wolves first game since he arrived.
Ludwig Blomstrand not even sure if this guy is even in Chicago yet but even if he is they've play only tonight's game since this guy was acquired.
The only guy that you might have a beef on is Cannata...and quite honestly he was very unimpressive in the ECHL this year.

All in all your statement lacks any validity and is based on personal feelings with no basis in fact at all.

Judging by you knowing nothing about Tommernes, my guess is you really don't follow all of our prospects that closely.

Tommernes is playing in the SEL for Frolunda, and he plays about 20-25+ minutes a night, needless to say that stat just goes to show he is already a major contributor for them on a game to game basis. He should be over here next year.

Alex Mallet and Grenier have been given little opportunity, Mallet was used on the 4th line from time to time, that just goes into what I was saying about our prospects needing opportunity, Grenier was called up for a little bit, but I don't think he was a given much of a role either, then was sent down soon after.

Great to see Price playing, and no he hasn't played every game, sat out the first 2, nice to see him getting time though, he should be a regular next year, especially if they move.

Blomstrand is in Chicago, but he hasn't played yet. And he wasn't recently acquired. We had him for awhile.

Lain played tonight yes (albeit on the 4th line), nice to see. Lets see if, like Price. He will be able to stay in the line-up for the rest of the games and the post season if they make it.

Cannata wasn't great in the ECHL, but was fanatastic in the AHL, yet got very little playing time.

Then even guys on the roster (and this is what I was saying earlier) like Rodin, don't get to play every game, and they play minimal roles when they do play. Even Peter Andersson was a scratch tonight for some reason.

We will also have some guys moving up for next year, and guys coming over. Like Corrado and Tommernes, then also guys there right now that aren't going to be used in big roles, like Blomstrand and Lain, aswell as Grenier, Cannata, and Mallet.

Moving our affiliate would give us control and give those guys opportunity. Plus all the other things, (off-ice things) A move would be nothing but a positive for us.

 

[axecrew]

Judging by you knowing nothing about Tommernes, my guess is you really don't follow all of our prospects that closely.

Tommernes is playing in the SEL for Frolunda, and he plays about 20-25+ minutes a night, needless to say that stat just goes to show he is already a major contributor for them on a game to game basis. He should be over here next year.

Alex Mallet and Grenier have been given little opportunity, Mallet was used on the 4th line from time to time, that just goes into what I was saying about our prospects needing opportunity, Grenier was called up for a little bit, but I don't think he was a given much of a role either, then was sent down soon after.

Great to see Price playing, and no he hasn't played every game, sat out the first 2, nice to see him getting time though, he should be a regular next year, especially if they move.

Blomstrand is in Chicago, but he hasn't played yet. And he wasn't recently acquired. We had him for awhile.

Lain played tonight yes (albeit on the 4th line), nice to see. Lets see if, like Price. He will be able to stay in the line-up for the rest of the games and the post season if they make it.

Cannata wasn't great in the ECHL, but was fanatastic in the AHL, yet got very little playing time.

Then even guys on the roster (and this is what I was saying earlier) like Rodin, don't get to play every game, and they play minimal roles when they do play. Even Peter Andersson was a scratch tonight for some reason.

We will also have some guys moving up for next year, and guys coming over. Like Corrado and Tommernes, then also guys there right now that aren't going to be used in big roles, like Blomstrand and Lain, aswell as Grenier, Cannata, and Mallet.

Moving our affiliate would give us control and give those guys opportunity. Plus all the other things, (off-ice things) A move would be nothing but a positive for us.

I guess we have to get something clear between us in this conversation......I am a Chicago Wolves fan...season ticket holder for over 17 years. I don't give a CRAP about the Vancouver Canucks other than who do they have they can send here to make the Wolves better.
Having said that as you can figure out I've seen the guys you mentioned (except Tommernes) play up close and personal, so I think I'm well qualified to speak on their ability to play in the AHL.

Both Grenier and Mallet have limited ability to play in the AHL right now and that's why they aren't there and I'm sure that Chicago knows what it is doing with them by sending them to the ECHL...DARREN ARCHIBALD ring a bell???????? He was totally lost here last year and went down there ,played and where is he now??? It isn't always about the numbers but learning how to play the game along with how to be a pro, both on and off the ice.
As for Price sitting the first 2 games..there is such a thing as adjustment time....plus practicing with team before playing.
Lain played ok last night....you can't expect these guys to come to Chicago and be put on the first line and first pp unit playing 30 minutes a game right out of jrs or college.....ain't gonna happen. Hell Morgan Reilly played in his first Pro Game last night for Toronto and was on either the 2nd or 3rd pairing for them, and I guarantee he has a bigger upside/potential then all of the guys mentioned by you combined.
Joe Cannata is a BACK UP goalie...he's not going to get a ton of time simple as that, if not for Lack getting hurt he wouldn 't even be here.
Rodin and Andersson have been injured for some time now so Andersson being scratched for "some reason" as you said is a very naive comment. In fact the guy can't stay healthy to save his life.
In closing please refrain from making blanket statements about the Wolves without fact to back up your comments and just ask a question. I'm sure myself and others would be happy to answer them. Oh 1 more thing...Vancouver sought out the Wolves for an affiliation, not the other way around. Just like now, the Wolves have fielded calls from 8 NHL clubs about affiliating with them next year....gotta be a reason for that. Can't imagine all these teams would be calling if Chicago was so bad.

One last thing....you have to remember that playing time doesn't always equate to ability. Having control over the team or players isnt going to make them play any better. Drafting better would go a long way towards better developing players. I have a mule that i can control,own and run everyday but that doesn't mean it will win the Kentucky Derby. You want your prospects to develop??? Tell Mike Gillis to start drafting better ones then.

 

[PCSPounder]

I guess we have to get something clear between us in this conversation......I am a Chicago Wolves fan...season ticket holder for over 17 years. I don't give a CRAP about the Vancouver Canucks other than who do they have they can send here to make the Wolves better.

That attitude, understandable as it may be, might be what the Canucks want to change.

Assume I'm entering the debate about using AHL as a minor league vs developmental league. It's the strong belief of many that it's easy to find experience to win games at that level, but harder to find time for the young talent while trying to make money selling tickets.

More baseball teams are considering buying their AAA affilates (10 already have AAA teams within 100 miles of the parent) and moving them to suburbs or closer locales. MLS teams are sorting out a system with reserve teams in another league rather than (in most cases) affiliating. Trend? Slightly emerging at this point, maybe.

Does this work for NHL and AHL? I'm curious to see if this could be a trend here.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That attitude, understandable as it may be, might be what the Canucks want to change.

Assume I'm entering the debate about using AHL as a minor league vs developmental league. It's the strong belief of many that it's easy to find experience to win games at that level, but harder to find time for the young talent while trying to make money selling tickets.

More baseball teams are considering buying their AAA affilates (10 already have AAA teams within 100 miles of the parent) and moving them to suburbs or closer locales. MLS teams are sorting out a system with reserve teams in another league rather than (in most cases) affiliating. Trend? Slightly emerging at this point, maybe.

Does this work for NHL and AHL? I'm curious to see if this could be a trend here.

that attitude isn't understandable to the majority of AHL Fans, either, because more and more teams are now required, PCS, to be involved w/ the AHL affiliate, and most fans knew this from the IHL Merger BACK IN 2001, hence why Atlanta became the affiliate when the Wolves switched as did the other 5, now 4, since Utah did the same thing that's been charged here....axe seems to forget, that Levin and Young, etc were required to have an affiliate upon being accepted into the AHL, otherwise the franchise ceases to exist because Levin likely would be broke by the end of an independent season, and he also seems to not grasp the fact that Levin, despite his admission that the Wolves won't be sold, isn't exactly a true statement, just as we thought Chipman wouldn't be able to keep his franchise while restarting the Jets in WPG, that's partially why that contract ended when it did.

This is no longer the IHL DAYS, Levin knows that and it's time this fan needs to grow up and realize it, there are no independents, and there's a by law against that as well.

 

[axecrew]

that attitude isn't understandable to the majority of AHL Fans, either, because more and more teams are now required, PCS, to be involved w/ the AHL affiliate, and most fans knew this from the IHL Merger BACK IN 2001, hence why Atlanta became the affiliate when the Wolves switched as did the other 5, now 4, since Utah did the same thing that's been charged here....axe seems to forget, that Levin and Young, etc were required to have an affiliate upon being accepted into the AHL, otherwise the franchise ceases to exist because Levin likely would be broke by the end of an independent season, and he also seems to not grasp the fact that Levin, despite his admission that the Wolves won't be sold, isn't exactly a true statement, just as we thought Chipman wouldn't be able to keep his franchise while restarting the Jets in WPG, that's partially why that contract ended when it did.

This is no longer the IHL DAYS, Levin knows that and it's time this fan needs to grow up and realize it, there are no independents, and there's a by law against that as well.

And once again hutch enters into a conversation, that he adds nothing to and spews incorrect info, not to mention a personal attack on me. Wow...what a shock!!!!

Time to try and correct the misinformation comments....But first this message from our sponsers.....Hutch DON'T TALK DOWN TO ME EVER AGAIN...I HAVE PROBABLY FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT HOCKEY THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. You want to have an intellegent conversation then fine but don't talk down to me.

Don Levin told me in person to my face that he would not sell the Wolves and that the chance of there being hockey in Seattle was about 10% at best. He also stated that one reason he wants an NHL team is to be able to control the players that come down to the Wolves.
What does PCS stand for?
I haven't forgotten anything about being required to affiliate with an NHL team to gain entry into the AHL.
Levin would be broke by the end of an independent season huh? Just like he went broke in the old IHL in which the Wolves were an independent team,in a league with higher player salaries and a much more expensive travel cost, but Don went broke, gee wonder if he knows that?
Love how you call Don Levin a liar on here hutch...like you know the man or have ever spoken to him.
So Don wouldn't be able to own an NHL team and an AHL franchise citing the True North/Chipman deal......you mean like Lieopold in Minnesota owns the Wild and the Houston franchise or maybe like Stillman in St. Louis owns the Blues and also the Peoria franchise...you mean like that?

No hutch there are no independents, and to all those on here reading this....Hutch is the only person in North America who is unwilling to accept that a team has to have an affiliate to enter the AHL but isn't required to have an affiliate to stay in the AHL. there's a whole thread up top on the subject with much more detail.
And hutch I'm calling you out and issuing a challange on here....every time you bring the subject up you cite bylaws as your proof but whenever pressed to you NEVER show us these bylaws that you speak of....so here's the challenge...either you produce these bylaws for all to see OR you never bring them up again.
Now let's see how you want to play it.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I guess we have to get something clear between us in this conversation......I am a Chicago Wolves fan...season ticket holder for over 17 years. I don't give a CRAP about the Vancouver Canucks other than who do they have they can send here to make the Wolves better.
Having said that as you can figure out I've seen the guys you mentioned (except Tommernes) play up close and personal, so I think I'm well qualified to speak on their ability to play in the AHL.

Both Grenier and Mallet have limited ability to play in the AHL right now and that's why they aren't there and I'm sure that Chicago knows what it is doing with them by sending them to the ECHL...DARREN ARCHIBALD ring a bell???????? He was totally lost here last year and went down there ,played and where is he now??? It isn't always about the numbers but learning how to play the game along with how to be a pro, both on and off the ice.
As for Price sitting the first 2 games..there is such a thing as adjustment time....plus practicing with team before playing.
Lain played ok last night....you can't expect these guys to come to Chicago and be put on the first line and first pp unit playing 30 minutes a game right out of jrs or college.....ain't gonna happen. Hell Morgan Reilly played in his first Pro Game last night for Toronto and was on either the 2nd or 3rd pairing for them, and I guarantee he has a bigger upside/potential then all of the guys mentioned by you combined.
Joe Cannata is a BACK UP goalie...he's not going to get a ton of time simple as that, if not for Lack getting hurt he wouldn 't even be here.
Rodin and Andersson have been injured for some time now so Andersson being scratched for "some reason" as you said is a very naive comment. In fact the guy can't stay healthy to save his life.
In closing please refrain from making blanket statements about the Wolves without fact to back up your comments and just ask a question. I'm sure myself and others would be happy to answer them. Oh 1 more thing...Vancouver sought out the Wolves for an affiliation, not the other way around. Just like now, the Wolves have fielded calls from 8 NHL clubs about affiliating with them next year....gotta be a reason for that. Can't imagine all these teams would be calling if Chicago was so bad.

One last thing....you have to remember that playing time doesn't always equate to ability. Having control over the team or players isnt going to make them play any better. Drafting better would go a long way towards better developing players. I have a mule that i can control,own and run everyday but that doesn't mean it will win the Kentucky Derby. You want your prospects to develop??? Tell Mike Gillis to start drafting better ones then.

Chicago isnt bad at all. Infact its one of the best AHL affilates in the league. Depending on what you are looking for that is.

I'm glad you cleared this up, as it allows me to go back to my original point.

We want our prospects to get time to play in the AHL and gain experience. The Wolves want to win at all costs and present a winning product to the fans. So that understandably leave them in the position of signing the veterans they think are the absolute best they can get. Yeah Anton Rodin (for example) may not be as good as Brett Sterling or Darren Haydar. But he can still play in this league on a night to night basis in a 2nd or 3rd line role. With the Wolves, due to the veterans they have. That isn't the case.

And that's one of the reasons we want to move. So we can control our own farm system and give our prospects the opportunities they may not get under a seperately owned team like Chicago. Do I blame Chicago for not putting our prospects first priority? Absolutely not, it makes perfect sense.

But for us we want to have our prospects getting more opportunity. Like another example. Adam Polasek played for the Wolves last year for most of the year I do believe, this year due to depth he was in the ECHL. Did he regress? I don't think so as a developing player that is striving to get better. The Wolves just brought in some veterans, like Mullen and Joslin. Exc. And with Andersson coming in that stole his spot. Where as in Abbotsford we would look to get Polasek in the line-up and playing. Same goes for Yann Sauve.

It's nothing against the Wolves and there franchise or fans or whatever. It is just us wanting to move closer for a number of reasons. Prospect development being one of them.

 

[orcatown]

QUOTE=axecrew;62188729]What prospects? Connauton who has regressed to the point of being terrible. Schneider,Rodin who can't stay healthy...who do you really honestly consider a prospect that isn't playing in Chicago?[/QUOTE]


Going on a rant here. Fuzzing everything together to make some point you want to hammer home rather than have any kind of rational discussion

Andersson has emerged as prospect. With Joslin has probably been the best defenseman on the team. Only 21 and in his first year in NA and has done well. Good range and smart with the puck. Big frame and will get stronger - he is a very decent prospect.

Archibald has improved a ton this year. He has a way to go in his skating but given his size and improvement this year he has a chance.

Cannata has had some excellent games for the Wolves. I think you can say he stole a couple. First year pro who has at least met expectations

Agree Connauton has tough season but in some ways he has improved. Less offense but not making the huge gaffes he made in his first season in Chicago. I think he has to show more mental awareness and get the hitches out of his game but he's not a write off.

Jensen is also showing enough at 19 (still Junior age) to believe he has a future

Polosek is still a young developing player that has at least survived at the AHL level.
He is had some very good games.

I would say that you are correct that there isn't a great deal there. But to say that there are no prospects is silly and just diminishes the rest of what you say which if you were to be honest is very selective and over blown.

btw All this I talked to Don Levin personally (like face to face man) as though you were running with the big dogs, and kind of insider with your close buddy "Hutch" there, seems more bent on impressing the rest of us than it does in really trying clarify the situation. Who knows maybe you are a mover and shaker at the minor pro level but I guess it's just as likely that you need to try to impress others by saying you know like totally important people.

 

[LadyStanley]

MOD NOTE: claims of insider status (IOW access to the movers/shakers) must be proven (to an administrator).


This thread has gotten way off track, so I'm closing it.

IF and WHEN there is actual news on affiliations/AHL teams actually moving, then I'll consider reopening.

(Meanwhile, there is an open thread on the topic in the Business of Hockey forum, if you absolutely must talk about it.)