AAA 2014 Lineup Assassination Thread

[seventieslord]

have at 'er!

Click to read more...

 

[ResilientBeast]

Coaching Staff - Terry Crisp, Clare Drake

Captain - Schock
Alternates - Marshall, McEachern

Shawn McEachern (A) --- Robert Lang --- Ray Sheppard
Rick Dudley --- Jozef Stumpel --- Mike Bullard
Jochen Hecht --- Ron Schock (C) --- Leroy Goldsworthy
Armand Mondou --- Manny Malhotra --- Mike Grier

Ex : Sergei Mozyakin (LW), Skinner Poulin (C), Evgeny Paladiev(D)

Bert Marshall (A) --- Doug Lidster
Vladmir Malakhov --- Boris Mironov
Tom Kurvers --- Hugh Bolton

"Sugar" Jim Henry
Carey Price

Ex : Sergei Mozyakin (LW), Skinner Poulin (C), Evgeny Paladiev (D)

Power Play

McEachern --- Lang --- Sheppard
Malakhov --- Mironov

Dudley --- Stumpel --- Bullard
Kurvers --- Lidster

Penalty Kill

Hecht --- Malhotra
Marshall --- Bolton

McEachern --- Grier
Malakhov --- Lidster


​

 

[tony d]

I have the first completed roster so here they are the 2014 Denver Spurs:

Tony Mckegney-Robbie Ftorek-Mac Colville
Jimmy Gardner-Normie Himes-Serge Bernier
Doug Smail-Daymond Langkow-Bill Collins
Butch Keeling-Art Jackson-Mark Napier

Dave Maloney-Doug Crossman
Stew Evans-Christian Ehroff
Eric Weinrich-Gord Murphy


Marty Turco
Vladimir Myshkin

Head Coach: Jimmy Skinner

Spares: Bryan Smolinski (C), Al dewsbury (D), Carl Liscombe (LW), Moe Mantha (D)

Special Teams:

PP 1: Tony Mckegney-Robbie Ftorek-Serge Bernier-Doug Crossman-Christian Ehroff
PP 2: Butch Keeling-Normie Himes-Mark Napier-Dave Maloney-Gord Murphy

PK1: Doug Smail-Daymond Langkow-Stew Evans-Eric Weinrich
PK 2: Bill Collins-Robbie Ftorek-Dave Maloney-Gord Murphy

Leadership: Robbie Ftorek (Captain), Stew Evans (Alternate), Gord Murphy (Alternate)

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Pittsburgh Pirates

Coach: Frank Boucher

Chriz Kunitz - Slava Bykov (A) - Andrei Khomutov
Scott Hartnell - Ivan Boldirev - Earl Robinson
Dutch Hiller - Cully Dahlstrom - Joe Pavelski
Jay Pandolfo - Laurie Boschman (A) - Pat Boutette

Mark Hardy - Brad Marsh (C)
Arnie Brown - Paul Martin
Pekka Marjamaki - Barney Holden

Gerry McNeil
Cesaire Maniago

Spares:
Radek Bonk, C
Ran McDonald, RW
Jack Campbell, D
Sylvain Lefebvre, D

PP 1: Kunitz-Bykov-Khomutov-Marjamaki-Martin
PP 2: Hartnell-Boldirev-Robinson-Hardy-Pavelski

PK 1: Dahlstrom-Pandolfo-Hardy-Marsh
PK 2: Pavelski-Hiller-Martin-Holden

 

[seventieslord]

time permitting, I'll do a good review of every team like I did last year.

 

[seventieslord]

Regina Capitals

coach: Brian Sutter

Morris Lukowich (A) - Alexei Zhamnov - Alex Golikov
Don Smith - Alexander Kozhevnikov - Billy Harris
Dave Hunter - Tomas Plekanec - Ric Seiling
Curt Fraser - Kelly Kisio (C) - Martin Lapointe

Alex Smith (A) - Keith Brown
Harold Snepsts - Jim McKenny
Sheldon Souray - Rick Smith

Viktor Konovalenko
Marc-Andre Fleury

spares:
Lucien DeBlois (F)
James Stewart (D)
Fred Whitcroft (F)
Murray Henderson (D)

PP1 - D.Smith - Kozhevnikov - Golikov - Souray - McKenny
PP2 - Lukowich - Kisio - Plekanec - Zhamnov - A.Smith
PK1 - Plekanec - Seiling - A.Smith - Snepsts
PK2 - Harris - Hunter - R.Smith - Brown
PK3 - Kisio - Zhamnov - Souray - Snepsts

1916 or earlier: D.Smith, Stewart, Whitcroft
1917-1942: A.Smith, Henderson
1943-1965: McKenny, Konovalenko
1966-1979: Lukowich, Golikov, Kozhevnikov, Harris, Seiling, R.Smith, Snepsts, Fraser, DeBlois
1980-1994: Zhamnov, Kisio, Brown, Hunter, Sutter, Lapointe
1995-2004: Souray, Fleury
in 2014: Plekanec, Fleury

 

[seventieslord]

I want to see this thread open and active as long as possible. But that`s only going to happen if other people are doing reviews too... I can`t be the only one!

 

[Hobnobs]

Edinburgh Capitals

Alain Vigneault, Coach

John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young
Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen - Mikael Renberg
Dave Reid - Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur
Fredrik Modin - Robert Reichel - Mark Hunter
Eric Daze, Johan Franzen

Bob Rouse - Risto Siltanen
Marcus Ragnarsson - Derek Morris
Kyle McLaren - Tobias Enström
Philippe Boucher

Felix Potvin
Jon Casey

PP1. John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young Derek Morris - Risto Siltanen
PP2. Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen - Mikael Renberg Kyle McLaren - Tobias Enström

PK1. Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur Bob Rouse - Marcus Ragnarsson
PK2. Dave Reid - Fredrik Modin McLaren - Derek Morris
​

 

[tony d]

Hoping to do a couple reviews as well, hopefully we get a review from everyone here as well as every team reviewed.

 

[seventieslord]

Hoping to do a couple reviews as well, hopefully we get a review from everyone here as well as every team reviewed.

We will, no problem!

 

[Rob Scuderi]

You're always active in these threads Tony so I'll review your team first.

I have the first completed roster so here they are the 2014 Denver Spurs:

Tony Mckegney-Robbie Ftorek-Mac Colville
Jimmy Gardner-Normie Himes-Serge Bernier
Doug Smail-Daymond Langkow-Bill Collins
Butch Keeling-Art Jackson-Mark Napier

Dave Maloney-Doug Crossman
Stew Evans-Christian Ehroff
Eric Weinrich-Gord Murphy


Marty Turco
Vladimir Myshkin

Head Coach: Jimmy Skinner

Spares: Bryan Smolinski (C), Al dewsbury (D), Carl Liscombe (LW), Moe Mantha (D)

Special Teams:

PP 1: Tony Mckegney-Robbie Ftorek-Serge Bernier-Doug Crossman-Christian Ehroff
PP 2: Butch Keeling-Normie Himes-Mark Napier-Dave Maloney-Gord Murphy

PK1: Doug Smail-Daymond Langkow-Stew Evans-Eric Weinrich
PK 2: Bill Collins-Robbie Ftorek-Dave Maloney-Gord Murphy

Leadership: Robbie Ftorek (Captain), Stew Evans (Alternate), Gord Murphy (Alternate)

Unless I'm missing someone you seem to have the two best WHA forwards in the draft, and Ftorek is clearly the best. I had him around the 4th best center in the draft so he's a good choice here. Also impressive about him is that he did most of his damage without any strong linemates. I've never scoured my scouting report books about him, but looking at his PIMs did he have some grit to his game as well? I can't be as complementary about his wings. I'd have liked to see a legitimate sniper on his wing. McKegney and Colville seem similar types for a top six role. Hardworkers with some defensive game, but not the greatest scorers. McKegney's six year weighted VsX score is 51.5 which is a weak spot for a top line role (20 wingers have scores about 59.5). Colville is at 58.5 which is passable with his skillset, but not what you want for your best top line wing.

Himes seems like a solid second line center who put up stats without strong teammates like Ftorek. I think Bernier is the second best WHA forward in the draft, and I think he's your best scoring winger. I think he's good enough to play on a top line, so he's great on a second line. Gardner wasn't a very strong scorer during his career, but he spent a number of years on the Wanderers and brings the grit every line needs so I think he fits here.

I didn't have Langkow on my radar but probably should have. He was good defensively, gritty, and a solid scorer with good ES numbers which are important. Smail is a solid third liner, good defensively and very speedy. He gets a knock for scoring his points next to Hawerchuk (which is fair and mentioned for many players in this draft), but I didn't realize he basically got no power play time. He was on the ice for 4% of his teams' power play goals in his career, so he came by almost every single point at even-strength (even Bill Collins can boast 8%). Collins won't help the two-way ability of this line, but he'll be a reliable defensive player and PK stud.

Jackson is probably the most talented 4th line center in the draft and seemed like the best center available when you picked him. He had some defensive ability so he can hang on a 4th line. Keeling is a tough goal-scorer who can crash and bang on the fourth line. I'm not sure what Napier brings though, he seemed like a goal-scorer by trade with little else. Am I wrong there?

Maloney and Crossman complement each other nicely. Maloney was regularly called his team's best defenseman and played a strong physical game. I think he's a good #1. Crossman was a puckmover who logged ice time on strong teams, but scouting reports had mixed reports on his defensive game. He's suited for a top pair despite this though as he was a second pair guy during the Flyers two finals losses.

I like Stew Evans a lot, I think he's a great second pair guy. Stay-at-home and physical, but earned some all-star votes and got some praise in the press to support his place as a very good defenseman in his day. Ehrhoff is probably underrated. Good defensively and a great shot for the powerplay. Logged 20+ minutes on good Sharks teams and a Vancouver team that made the finals where he played on the top pair with Hamhuis injured for the Boston series.

Gord Murphy is a guy I had last year as well and like a lot, I had him on my top pair last year and think he's a very strong #5. Weinrich played forever and was a solid defensive-minded guy. I think he's also a good player for a bottom pair.

I have Marty Turco as the third best goalie in the draft, not elite but a very good choice. Three times top-5 in the Vezina is hard to come by at this point. He may not have Hitchcock on the bench, but you have a strong defense to support him.

The lack of scoring punch on your top six wings hurt your power play. I like Ftorek and Bernier, but I don't see a great option to pair with them. McKegney played and scored less on the powerplay than Langkow did. Crossman and Ehrhoff are solid top unit guys. Maloney isn't a great PP option, but that's par for the course this far down unless you want to compromise your defense at even-strength which you did not do.

I like your pk defensemen. I'd try to get Collins on your top PK unit as well, Smail is very good, but killing penalties is what Collins does best. Does Ftorek have the resume to kill penalties? It seems he did a bit of it in the NHL (25% of his teams' kills).
-----------------------------
I like your defense as a group, maybe no standout but a strong group. I like your center group as well. Turco is a good starter here too.

I'm not as big a fan of your top six wingers (outside of Bernier). I think ideally you'd find another two-way guy to play with Smail and Langkow instead of Collins. I need to be sold on Napier in a 4th line role as well.

Definitely a very good team all in all Tony.

 

[tony d]

Thanks Rob I'll do yours tomorrow.

 

[seventieslord]

If you're reviewing lineups then I might just reply to them and pipe in with my own takes on parts where I disagree or can add clarification or reinforcement.

Unless I'm missing someone you seem to have the two best WHA forwards in the draft, and Ftorek is clearly the best. I had him around the 4th best center in the draft so he's a good choice here. Also impressive about him is that he did most of his damage without any strong linemates. I've never scoured my scouting report books about him, but looking at his PIMs did he have some grit to his game as well?

He was gritty but small and not great defensively was what I got when i read up on him. He was there on my radar for a bottom 6 spot in the MLD but the field was too strong. I had him tops on my list for a bottom 6 spot heading into this draft. I couldn't see him as a scoring line player, his vsx scores are just 358 in his best 6 seasons, that's a good deal behind most top-2 centers here. He had a marginal edge on guys like Kisio and Plekanec and I liked his grit so that's why I had him on top; would have been a great two-way 3rd liner, but from what I can tell he's a little out of his league as a producer in this class of centers.

I can't be as complementary about his wings. I'd have liked to see a legitimate sniper on his wing. McKegney and Colville seem similar types for a top six role. Hardworkers with some defensive game, but not the greatest scorers. McKegney's six year weighted VsX score is 51.5 which is a weak spot for a top line role (20 wingers have scores about 59.5). Colville is at 58.5 which is passable with his skillset, but not what you want for your best top line wing.

yeah, having just one of these guys on a top line would be fine. McKegney can work the boards, and Colville is a known glue guy. But both? there's not enough oomph as it is.

Himes seems like a solid second line center who put up stats without strong teammates like Ftorek. I think Bernier is the second best WHA forward in the draft, and I think he's your best scoring winger. I think he's good enough to play on a top line, so he's great on a second line. Gardner wasn't a very strong scorer during his career, but he spent a number of years on the Wanderers and brings the grit every line needs so I think he fits here.

yeah, this is a good mix.

I didn't have Langkow on my radar but probably should have. He was good defensively, gritty, and a solid scorer with good ES numbers which are important. Smail is a solid third liner, good defensively and very speedy. He gets a knock for scoring his points next to Hawerchuk (which is fair and mentioned for many players in this draft), but I didn't realize he basically got no power play time. He was on the ice for 4% of his teams' power play goals in his career, so he came by almost every single point at even-strength (even Bill Collins can boast 8%). Collins won't help the two-way ability of this line, but he'll be a reliable defensive player and PK stud.

Langkow wasn't on my radar, either, as I see him as a top-6 candidate. he has some intangibles, but I really didn't see them as significant enough to get a bottom-6 spot here, not against this field anyway. Collins is a pretty strong ES producer, though - 29 adjusted ESP per season. Smail has 35 but without Hawerchuk, he's in the same range, right?

Jackson is probably the most talented 4th line center in the draft and seemed like the best center available when you picked him. He had some defensive ability so he can hang on a 4th line. Keeling is a tough goal-scorer who can crash and bang on the fourth line. I'm not sure what Napier brings though, he seemed like a goal-scorer by trade with little else. Am I wrong there?

I agree on Jackson; and for the life of me I can't understand why he hasn't gotten more respect here.

Also agree on the wingers exactly.

Maloney and Crossman complement each other nicely. Maloney was regularly called his team's best defenseman and played a strong physical game. I think he's a good #1. Crossman was a puckmover who logged ice time on strong teams, but scouting reports had mixed reports on his defensive game. He's suited for a top pair despite this though as he was a second pair guy during the Flyers two finals losses.

Maloney rarely (never?) was getting the most icetime on his team, so I'm not sure he was ever really the best on his team. but that's also pretty par for the course here, even for a #1.

I like Stew Evans a lot, I think he's a great second pair guy. Stay-at-home and physical, but earned some all-star votes and got some praise in the press to support his place as a very good defenseman in his day. Ehrhoff is probably underrated. Good defensively and a great shot for the powerplay. Logged 20+ minutes on good Sharks teams and a Vancouver team that made the finals where he played on the top pair with Hamhuis injured for the Boston series.

I think Ehrhoff in the AAA draft still qualifies as somewhat of an "offenseman". 21% PK usage is on page 1 of the list lowest career usage averages posted by defensemen with over 500 career GP. Among goons like Laus, career #7s like Strudwick, and numerous offensive specialists like Kurvers, Corvo, Ozolinsh, Tomas Jonsson, JVB, Jean Potvin and Olausson.

Gord Murphy is a guy I had last year as well and like a lot, I had him on my top pair last year and think he's a very strong #5. Weinrich played forever and was a solid defensive-minded guy. I think he's also a good player for a bottom pair.

I agree that they're both good here. But Weinrich was every bit as offensive as he was defensive.

Actually, this is a really interesting pairing because both of these are guys who I'd describe as able to be the significantly more offensive or significantly more defensive member of a AAA pairing. They could go with a Jim McKenny, or with a Curtis Leschshyn.

I have Marty Turco as the third best goalie in the draft, not elite but a very good choice. Three times top-5 in the Vezina is hard to come by at this point. He may not have Hitchcock on the bench, but you have a strong defense to support him.

I'm kinda torn on Turco. He finished his career 2 sv% points above the league average, but I'm pretty sure team situation helped him a lot with that - we know now with absolute certainty that Ken Hitchcock is a godsend to save percentage.

A 7-season legit starter is probably the worst terms in which you could describe Turco, so he should not hurt his team.

The lack of scoring punch on your top six wings hurt your power play. I like Ftorek and Bernier, but I don't see a great option to pair with them. McKegney played and scored less on the powerplay than Langkow did. Crossman and Ehrhoff are solid top unit guys. Maloney isn't a great PP option, but that's par for the course this far down unless you want to compromise your defense at even-strength which you did not do.

I like your pk defensemen. I'd try to get Collins on your top PK unit as well, Smail is very good, but killing penalties is what Collins does best. Does Ftorek have the resume to kill penalties? It seems he did a bit of it in the NHL (25% of his teams' kills).

you're absolutely right about all of this. And yes, I'd say Ftorek's a more than passable AAA penalty killer if he's at 25%.

 

[tony d]

Pittsburgh Pirates

Coach: Frank Boucher

Chriz Kunitz - Slava Bykov (A) - Andrei Khomutov
Scott Hartnell - Ivan Boldirev - Earl Robinson
Dutch Hiller - Cully Dahlstrom - Joe Pavelski
Jay Pandolfo - Laurie Boschman (A) - Pat Boutette

Mark Hardy - Brad Marsh (A)
Arnie Brown - Paul Martin
Pekka Marjamaki - Barney Holden

Gerry McNeil
Cesaire Maniago

Spares:
Radek Bonk, C
Ran McDonald, RW
Jack Campbell, D
Sylvain Lefebvre, D

As promised a review of your team:

1st Line: Kunitz is the kind of guy that can do a lot of things well but none of it super well. He's done a decent job on Crosby's wing the past few yrs. but he always leaves you wanting more.t Slava Bykov was on my radar as well here a little, one of the best centres here for sure. The Khomutov bio links to Bykov so I can't say to much about Khomutov but what I remember about him he was a good player, overall a good 1st line here.

2nd line: Hartnell's a lot like Kunitz though Hartnell may be less offensive and more defensive but they play the same roles, Hartnell can add goal scoring as well. Boldriev's always been one of my favourites. Knew he was good offensively but reading his bio and he seems good defensively as well. Good pick. Great pick on Robinson, I had it mind to pick him as well this draft and almost had him picked before going with someone else, he didn't do much defensively but on this line that shouldn't matter as his linemates can cover for him defensively so that he can do what he does best: offense. Overall a good 2nd line

3rd Forward Line: Dutch Hillier reads as a good checker, has some speed as well which will help when matched vs. 1st lines. As far as 3rd line centres go there may be none better than Cully Dahlstrom, I contemplated picking him as well in this draft so solid pick. Pavelski's a good versatile player as well, overall a very good 3rd line that may be 1 of the best 3rd lines in the league, solid job.

4th Line: Pandolfo's a super pick, had I not been away last week I would of picked him for my 4th line, guy is exactly what you want in a 4th liner and should be on your first PK unit. I had Boschman in 2012 I believe, the guy's a good 1 as well. Can chip in offensively as well. Boutette is probably your team "enforcer", he'll serve your team well. Good job here.

1st Defensive Pairing: Mark Hardy reads as your offensive guy here, he can play a physical game as well so a decent pick. As it comes to purely defensive defenseman there aren't many better at this level than brad Marsh. I had Marsh in 2011 in the MLD, he's a very good. Overall a solid pairing here.

2nd Defensive Pairing: Brown reads as a good 1 as well, better physically than he is offensively though. Paul Martin was on my radar as well, very solid pick. Might suffer from the lack of a pure offensive defenseman though.

3rd Defensive Pairing: Marjamaki's a good one as well, the guy's a good offensive defenseman and if anything I'd switch him and Brown on your 2nd and 3rd pairings. Holden plays a good 2 way game as well but I think he'll probably play more defensively than offensively. Overall another good pairing.

Goalies: Mcneil's one of the top #1 goalies here, I had him in 2012, very solid goalie who could have done more had he not had to be Bill Durnan's backup. Maniago is a very good backup as well, perhaps the best 1 here. Overall a good goalie tandem.

Coach: Boucher's one of the top coaches here and reads as a good innovator in the game, he should serve your team well.

Extras: Overall a solid group of extras who can fill in as needed for your team.

Special teams: None listed, so no comment

Final Thoughts: Overall a good team, maybe could of used another offensive defenseman but other than that this is 1 of the top teams here, good luck to you going forward.

 

[DaveG]

Coaches: Bill Dineen, Lou Vairo (Asst)

Peter Nedved - John Tavares - Jeff O'Neill
Cory Stillman (A) - Ed Olczyk - James Neal
Steve Konowalchuk - Wayne Merrick - Niklas Sundstrom
Vic Lynn - Andrei Nikolishin - Willi Plett

Anders Eldebrink (A) - Bill Brydge
Hal Laycoe - Al Hamilton
Bret Hedican (C)- Robert Picard

Pelle Lindbergh
Richard Brodeur

extras: LW PJ Axelsson, C Andrew Cassels, D Igor Kravchuk

Special Teams:
PP:
Nedved - Tavares - O'Neill
Eldebrink - Picard

Stillman - Olczyk - Neal
Hedican - Hamilton

PK:
Lynn - Sundstrom
Laycoe - Brydge

Konowalchuk - Nikolishin
Hedican - Picard

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Thanks for the review Tony. I fixed Khomutov's bio and have some tentative special teams posted now.

The only thing I wanted to comment on was my second pair. Neither is a pure offensive guy, but Martin has a good first pass and is a great skater. I was surprised to see how much praise Brown got for his rushing abilities after I drafted him. I think they can both handle the transition game well enough that it won't be a liability.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Coaching Staff - Terry Crisp, Clare Drake

Captain - Schock
Alternates - Marshall, McEachern

Shawn McEachern (A) --- Robert Lang --- Ray Sheppard
Rick Dudley --- Jozef Stumpel --- Mike Bullard
Jochen Hecht --- Ron Schock (C) --- Leroy Goldsworthy
Armand Mondou --- Manny Malhotra --- Mike Grier

Ex : Sergei Mozyakin (LW), Skinner Poulin (C), Evgeny Paladiev(D)

Bert Marshall (A) --- Doug Lidster
Vladmir Malakhov --- Boris Mironov
Tom Kurvers --- Hugh Bolton

"Sugar" Jim Henry
Carey Price

Ex : Sergei Mozyakin (LW), Skinner Poulin (C), Evgeny Paladiev (D)

Power Play

McEachern --- Lang --- Sheppard
Malakhov --- Mironov

Dudley --- Stumpel --- Bullard
Kurvers --- Lidster

Penalty Kill

Hecht --- Malhotra
Marshall --- Bolton

McEachern --- Grier
Malakhov --- Lidster


​

Lang is an elite scorer at this level, he has the highest six year weighted VsX scores of anyone in the draft. He's a great piece to build your team around. Sheppard I have as a below average first liner, but he's a standard scoring line guy at this level and will make use of Lang's playmaking ability. Scouting reports mentioned he wasn't much of a defensive player or effective along the boards so he'll need some help in those areas. McEachern has solid offense for a top six glue guy and will work hard for his line, but scouting reports mention he wasn't that effective along the boards because of his size. I see this is a good line with Lang being a serious threat at this level, but they seem a little light on intangibles.

I like Stumpel a lot as a second line center at this level, he could pass on a top line. Bullard was a very good scorer and his goalscoring will fit Stumpel well. I'd like to know how much right wing he played though, I couldn't find any references to it in my scouting report books. If he's a legitimate winger he's one of the best in the draft on the second line. I have a tough time with Dudley because he basically had four seasons of note, three coming in the WHA. Not questioning his toughness or work along the boards, but his resume is a little light for a scoring role. Depending on how you look at Bullard at wing, I think this line has two very good scorers but Dudley is a question mark for me.

Your third line may be my favorite. Schock and Hecht are both two-way guys that did their damage at even-strength. Neither are dynamic, but they're what you want for a third line. Goldsworthy seems to fit the same profile, nothing spectacular but hard-working, consistent, and defensively responsible. I think this is a strong line.

Good 4th line full of role players. They all add elements every team needs, and they're good enough players to provide them at this level.

Excellent top pair, one of the best in the draft. I think both guys could work as #1s at this level and their styles fit one another very well. I can't find anything bad to say really.

Not as sold on your second pair. Both are okay on the second pair, but I don't think their styles fit together well. Scouting reports praise Mironov's defensive game, but I would like to see someone more conservative and physical next to the inconsistent Malakhov.

Two polarizing guys for your bottom pair, but I can see the value in each. Bolton received consideration in all-star voting and made an all-star game as a defensive defenseman. Kurvers is an elite PPQB at this level but needs sheltering at even-strength. I'm not sure you needed him with Malakhov and Mironov already on board.

I like your goalie tandem a lot, both are about average-above average starters for me. Honestly I think Price is a small step above Henry at this point and would have be happy to have him as my starter at this level.

You have very strong PP pointmen, I'd swap Kurvers and Mironov though to get Kurvers time on the top unit. You have strong scoring forwards as well led by your centers, but the net front guys are weaker.

Strong penalty-killing forwards. I'd look to find room for Schock as he killed the second highest % of penalties on your team after Grier. Marshall is great on the PK and the rest of your defense is solid. Malakhov killed around 40% of his teams' penalties so he's the best option over Mironov and Kurvers.

 

[jkrx]

Lang is an elite scorer at this level, he has the highest six year weighted VsX scores of anyone in the draft. He's a great piece to build your team around. Sheppard I have as a below average first liner, but he's a standard scoring line guy at this level and will make use of Lang's playmaking ability. Scouting reports mentioned he wasn't much of a defensive player or effective along the boards so he'll need some help in those areas. McEachern has solid offense for a top six glue guy and will work hard for his line, but scouting reports mention he wasn't that effective along the boards because of his size. I see this is a good line with Lang being a serious threat at this level, but they seem a little light on intangibles.

I like Stumpel a lot as a second line center at this level, he could pass on a top line. Bullard was a very good scorer and his goalscoring will fit Stumpel well. I'd like to know how much right wing he played though, I couldn't find any references to it in my scouting report books. If he's a legitimate winger he's one of the best in the draft on the second line. I have a tough time with Dudley because he basically had four seasons of note, three coming in the WHA. Not questioning his toughness or work along the boards, but his resume is a little light for a scoring role. Depending on how you look at Bullard at wing, I think this line has two very good scorers but Dudley is a question mark for me.

Your third line may be my favorite. Schock and Hecht are both two-way guys that did their damage at even-strength. Neither are dynamic, but they're what you want for a third line. Goldsworthy seems to fit the same profile, nothing spectacular but hard-working, consistent, and defensively responsible. I think this is a strong line.

Good 4th line full of role players. They all add elements every team needs, and they're good enough players to provide them at this level.

Excellent top pair, one of the best in the draft. I think both guys could work as #1s at this level and their styles fit one another very well. I can't find anything bad to say really.

Not as sold on your second pair. Both are okay on the second pair, but I don't think their styles fit together well. Scouting reports praise Mironov's defensive game, but I would like to see someone more conservative and physical next to the inconsistent Malakhov.

Two polarizing guys for your bottom pair, but I can see the value in each. Bolton received consideration in all-star voting and made an all-star game as a defensive defenseman. Kurvers is an elite PPQB at this level but needs sheltering at even-strength. I'm not sure you needed him with Malakhov and Mironov already on board.

I like your goalie tandem a lot, both are about average-above average starters for me. Honestly I think Price is a small step above Henry at this point and would have be happy to have him as my starter at this level.

You have very strong PP pointmen, I'd swap Kurvers and Mironov though to get Kurvers time on the top unit. You have strong scoring forwards as well led by your centers, but the net front guys are weaker.

Strong penalty-killing forwards. I'd look to find room for Schock as he killed the second highest % of penalties on your team after Grier. Marshall is great on the PK and the rest of your defense is solid. Malakhov killed around 40% of his teams' penalties so he's the best option over Mironov and Kurvers.

Mike Bullard played a bit on the right wing when with the Penguins as they were notoriously weak at that position. How much he did play that position is hard to say because of the nature of a poor team. Lots of line juggling. But my personal opinion I would have to say that he played too little at that position to warrant a selection at RW here.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Edinburgh Capitals

Alain Vigneault, Coach

John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young
Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen - Mikael Renberg
Dave Reid - Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur
Fredrik Modin - Robert Reichel - Mark Hunter
Eric Daze, Johan Franzen

Bob Rouse - Risto Siltanen
Marcus Ragnarsson - Derek Morris
Kyle McLaren - Tobias Enström
Philippe Boucher

Felix Potvin
Jon Casey

PP1. John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young Derek Morris - Risto Siltanen
PP2. Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen - Mikael Renberg Kyle McLaren - Tobias Enström

PK1. Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur Bob Rouse - Marcus Ragnarsson
PK2. Dave Reid - Fredrik Modin McLaren - Derek Morris
​

Larouche is a solid top line center here. His six year VsX score puts him near the top of the draft. I like Sorrell even more, great VsX scores and one of the best scoring wingers in the draft. One knock of this combo though, I'd like to see a little more playmaking for Larouche. Young fits the scoring line glue guy profile here. His offense is solid, and he was praised for his defensive game unlike a lot of those guys with similar offense. Scouting reports mention he wasn't overly physical, but he was still effective along the boards. This is a very good top line.

Jokinen was great value when you picked him, and his six year VsX is a very close second to Lang for tops in the draft. Value aside, he's a great second liner in the draft. Brunette is quietly an elite point producer in the AAA if you look at his VsX scores. His six year score is nearly identical to Sorrell and you see how much I like him. I think about the point you made about Lefebvre, are we underrating Brunette because we're familiar with him? Also bonus, Brunette's playmaking should fit Jokinen who liked to shoot the puck. Renberg brings all the skills you want in a glue guy, and even with the injuries his six best VsX scores make him a solid choice for a scoring line. Definitely one of the best second lines in the draft for me.

Zezel is an okay third liner, but he's not a guy pushing the Plekanec-level of third liners in the draft. The wingers don't wow me. Reid is a PK ace and solid defensively, but not much of a two-way player. I've never gotten to the point of considering drafting Kallur so maybe I'm too hard on him. I realize he was a valuable role player for a dynasty, but again not much of a scorer and such a short career. Outside of the NHL, you have a great year in the SHL winning the MVP. But little else, unless eliteprospects is lying to me, as he represented Sweden in the 1981 Canada Cup and no other time. He doesn't break out until 26, and retires at 32, do you know why he retired? Zezel is okay in his role, but the other two feel more like PK specialists you'd want down a line.

So when I called Art Jackson probably the most talented 4th line center, I didn't realize Reichel was on a fourth line. He compares to top six centers in this draft so he's really slumming it here. I realize he had something of a defensive game, but he's not a prototypical fourth liner. Modin fits here, but I never know how good he is defensively. He did most of his scoring at ES which is nice. Hunter is a solid fourth liner, he was inconsistent but physical and solid defensively when he was on.

Rouse is unspectacular as a #1. He was done as a top pair guy at ES by the early 90s, and more of a depth guy by the time he started winning Cups in Detroit. Siltanen feels a little overmatched on a top pair. TOI estimates said he was never in the top 2 of his teams' ES ice time. Scouting reports talk about his offensive acumen and defensive vulnerabilities. He seems like the type of guy you draft for the power play and try to shelter at ES at this level.

I think Morris is your best defender. He played a lot of ice time and brought a solid yet unspectacular game that you want in a top 4 role. I think he's a good player in his role. Ragnarsson seems more of the same, good minutes and a defensive-minded game. This is a solid second pair.

McLaren is alright, solid minutes on playoff teams in his career. Good defensively and physical. I like Enstrom more than Siltanen. Short career, but logged big minutes his whole career. The tradeoff is he's never been on a playoff team.

Potvin seems like an average goalie at this level. 3x Top 10 in save %, one big year of award consideration going 3rd in AST voting and 4th in Vezina voting.

Great forwards on your power play units, you have serious firepower if Brunette and Jokinen are on your second unit. The pointmen aren't as strong. Siltanen and Enstrom are very strong, but there's a big drop to your 4th guy. Morris is a solid guy at this level, do you have him on the top unit so you have a natural PPQB on each unit? I'd throw Ragnarsson over McLaren, it's going to be ugly either way, but he had slightly more PP points in his career.

Kallur and Reid are strong PKers at this level. Zezel is solid, but Modin is a weaker point killing only 16% of his teams' penalties in his career. Good defensemen, no guy that looks below average here.

In Vigneault, you have arguably the best coach in the draft. He should make good use of your top six and very defensively oriented third line.

 

[seventieslord]

Having a really buy work week so I'm just going to ride on the coattails of your review again, piping in wherever I can. I plan on doing at least two full reviews, though - your team will be one of them.

Lang is an elite scorer at this level, he has the highest six year weighted VsX scores of anyone in the draft.

still, it feels wrong to say that. Was there ever a time that Lang wowed anyone? I can't really explain it, but I am never really that interested in drafting Lang, even when his numbers start to look among the best. I can't quite put my finger on why. Was it linemates, maybe? Was he less of a catalyst than other comparable guys?

(by the way, when there are eight post-expansion, mostly one-dimensional scoring centers available with 6-year vsx scores so close - Larouche, Lang, Nedved, Zhamnov, Stumpel, Olczyk, Jokinen, Boldirev - I don't know if it's really accurate to say one has a "better" score than the others. They're all so close that a couple poorly chosen benchmarks could be the only thing making the top guy better than the bottom. I would call them all virtual equals to start, and look at other reasons to put guys ahead - playoffs, best seasons beyond top-6, intangibles, linemate factors, etc)

so while we're on this topic, let's look at those 8 guys and see if any stand out as being helped a lot more or a lot less than linemates by the others. These are their prime (8-11 consecutive season) help ratings, based on the same work I've been doing in the HOH wingers project using Matnor's numbers:

Jokinen 1.61
Boldirev 1.47
Larouche 1.37
Zhamnov 1.36
Nedved 1.35
Stumpel 1.23
Lang 1.21
Olczyk 1.18

It does appear Lang received more help scoring his points than most of these other guys, to a degree that is statistically noteworthy.

one more way to sort of "break the tie" would be to look at their next best seasons after their best 6.

total vsx scores (my sheet may have a couple different numbers but should be nearly the same) in seasons 7-10

Zhamnov 212
Jokinen 202
Boldirev 201
Larouche 188
Olczyk 188
Stumpel 188
Nedved 180
Lang 173

based on all this, I'd say Lang is dining out a bit on his ever-so-slightly higher 6-year VsX score. He's pretty good, I mean, almost as good as most of these guys, but if I had a to rank them, all things considered, he'd probably be only ahead of Olczyk.

He's a great piece to build your team around. Sheppard I have as a below average first liner, but he's a standard scoring line guy at this level and will make use of Lang's playmaking ability. Scouting reports mentioned he wasn't much of a defensive player or effective along the boards so he'll need some help in those areas. McEachern has solid offense for a top six glue guy and will work hard for his line, but scouting reports mention he wasn't that effective along the boards because of his size. I see this is a good line with Lang being a serious threat at this level, but they seem a little light on intangibles.

I concur.

I like Stumpel a lot as a second line center at this level, he could pass on a top line. Bullard was a very good scorer and his goalscoring will fit Stumpel well. I'd like to know how much right wing he played though, I couldn't find any references to it in my scouting report books. If he's a legitimate winger he's one of the best in the draft on the second line. I have a tough time with Dudley because he basically had four seasons of note, three coming in the WHA. Not questioning his toughness or work along the boards, but his resume is a little light for a scoring role. Depending on how you look at Bullard at wing, I think this line has two very good scorers but Dudley is a question mark for me.

yeah, I think Bullard is really questionable on the wing. I mean, I can see any center playing wing reasonably well, but you've gotta dock them about 10-20% effectiveness in terns of numbers just by how much less they'll touch the puck alone.

Dudley is a real reach for a scoring line. More of a 3rd/4th liner in this draft.

Your third line may be my favorite. Schock and Hecht are both two-way guys that did their damage at even-strength. Neither are dynamic, but they're what you want for a third line. Goldsworthy seems to fit the same profile, nothing spectacular but hard-working, consistent, and defensively responsible. I think this is a strong line.

Good 4th line full of role players. They all add elements every team needs, and they're good enough players to provide them at this level.

Yep, agree on all this, except that Mondou has always underwhelmed me.

Excellent top pair, one of the best in the draft. I think both guys could work as #1s at this level and their styles fit one another very well. I can't find anything bad to say really.

All things considered, I'd probably say marshall is a #2 here, but yeah.

Not as sold on your second pair. Both are okay on the second pair, but I don't think their styles fit together well. Scouting reports praise Mironov's defensive game, but I would like to see someone more conservative and physical next to the inconsistent Malakhov.

you're absolutely right here. This could be a nightmare pairing. Mironov had a defensive game, but he was frustrating and inconsistent. You need way more stability next to Malakhov.

Two polarizing guys for your bottom pair, but I can see the value in each. Bolton received consideration in all-star voting and made an all-star game as a defensive defenseman. Kurvers is an elite PPQB at this level but needs sheltering at even-strength. I'm not sure you needed him with Malakhov and Mironov already on board.

I am not sure Bolton should just be called a "defensive" guy. He had pretty good numbers. In any case, I don't think his defensive or physical resume is established enough to be babysitting for a guy like Kurvers.

there's a little too much offense here... Kurvers was overkill.

If you insist on keeping all three in the lineup I think you should separate them, putting the steadiest and least-sheltering-needed Mironov on the top pairing with Lidster, then use Marshall with Malakhov. I would like to improve upon the 3rd pairing but I don't see a way, this is how it has to be. Kurvers has to be on a 3rd pairing, and I can't see dropping one of your two steadiest guys down there to help him, obviously.

I like your goalie tandem a lot, both are about average-above average starters for me. Honestly I think Price is a small step above Henry at this point and would have be happy to have him as my starter at this level.

agree, both very good. and I also agree, Price is better by now.

You have very strong PP pointmen, I'd swap Kurvers and Mironov though to get Kurvers time on the top unit. You have strong scoring forwards as well led by your centers, but the net front guys are weaker.

absolutely, if you're going to have Kurvers then use his strengths - 1st PP unit. Overall, really strong PP defensemen, average to below average forwards.

Strong penalty-killing forwards. I'd look to find room for Schock as he killed the second highest % of penalties on your team after Grier. Marshall is great on the PK and the rest of your defense is solid. Malakhov killed around 40% of his teams' penalties so he's the best option over Mironov and Kurvers.

definitely, get McEachern out of there and make that penalty kill a little more Schocking. PK forwards are excellent. PK defensemen are just OK.

Marshall makes a good assistant, but I'm not sure about McEachern. Bullard and Hecht were at least briefly captains. May want to give one of them the A over him.

 

[seventieslord]

Larouche is a solid top line center here. His six year VsX score puts him near the top of the draft. I like Sorrell even more, great VsX scores and one of the best scoring wingers in the draft. One knock of this combo though, I'd like to see a little more playmaking for Larouche. Young fits the scoring line glue guy profile here. His offense is solid, and he was praised for his defensive game unlike a lot of those guys with similar offense. Scouting reports mention he wasn't overly physical, but he was still effective along the boards. This is a very good top line.

Pretty good personnel, but you said it, it's pretty goals-biased all around. Young is the most likely to pass player on the line, and even he had just 1.2 assists per goal. I'd be worried about this line generating offense despite the strong goal scorers it features. Young is also not the best overall guy to be a glue guy.

Jokinen was great value when you picked him, and his six year VsX is a very close second to Lang for tops in the draft. Value aside, he's a great second liner in the draft. Brunette is quietly an elite point producer in the AAA if you look at his VsX scores. His six year score is nearly identical to Sorrell and you see how much I like him. I think about the point you made about Lefebvre, are we underrating Brunette because we're familiar with him? Also bonus, Brunette's playmaking should fit Jokinen who liked to shoot the puck. Renberg brings all the skills you want in a glue guy, and even with the injuries his six best VsX scores make him a solid choice for a scoring line. Definitely one of the best second lines in the draft for me.

Yes, this is a really good 2nd line. It's hard to build something with ALL the elements, but it has the shooter, playmaker and puckwinner. it's lacking a great physical presence, and a defensive presence as well, but you can sorta get by without those in the AAA as it's often par for the course.

Zezel is an okay third liner, but he's not a guy pushing the Plekanec-level of third liners in the draft. The wingers don't wow me. Reid is a PK ace and solid defensively, but not much of a two-way player. I've never gotten to the point of considering drafting Kallur so maybe I'm too hard on him. I realize he was a valuable role player for a dynasty, but again not much of a scorer and such a short career. Outside of the NHL, you have a great year in the SHL winning the MVP. But little else, unless eliteprospects is lying to me, as he represented Sweden in the 1981 Canada Cup and no other time. He doesn't break out until 26, and retires at 32, do you know why he retired? Zezel is okay in his role, but the other two feel more like PK specialists you'd want down a line.

I concur.

So when I called Art Jackson probably the most talented 4th line center, I didn't realize Reichel was on a fourth line. He compares to top six centers in this draft so he's really slumming it here. I realize he had something of a defensive game, but he's not a prototypical fourth liner. Modin fits here, but I never know how good he is defensively. He did most of his scoring at ES which is nice. Hunter is a solid fourth liner, he was inconsistent but physical and solid defensively when he was on.

I would still call Jackson more talented. I think his score for a pre-expansion player is more impressive than Reichel's post-expansion. (also, he was buried in his lineup and proved what he was capable when he got a chance, so if we're talking talent and not just production, he should take this easily). The wingers are fairly "robust" but they're not going to run anyone over... and I kinda like 4th lines that are going to run someone over. It's just OK if you treat it as a 3rd scoring line. There were probably some better options out there.

Rouse is unspectacular as a #1. He was done as a top pair guy at ES by the early 90s, and more of a depth guy by the time he started winning Cups in Detroit. Siltanen feels a little overmatched on a top pair. TOI estimates said he was never in the top 2 of his teams' ES ice time. Scouting reports talk about his offensive acumen and defensive vulnerabilities. He seems like the type of guy you draft for the power play and try to shelter at ES at this level.

I agree on both. Skill set wise, these two are a nice fit, but I don't see this as a top pair; I wouldn't even like it that much as a 2nd pair.

I think Morris is your best defender. He played a lot of ice time and brought a solid yet unspectacular game that you want in a top 4 role. I think he's a good player in his role. Ragnarsson seems more of the same, good minutes and a defensive-minded game. This is a solid second pair.

this would be an underwhelming, won't embarrass you, first pairing! I would say just switch them with Rouse/Siltanen.

McLaren is alright, solid minutes on playoff teams in his career. Good defensively and physical. I like Enstrom more than Siltanen. Short career, but logged big minutes his whole career. The tradeoff is he's never been on a playoff team.

Enstrom's career games, points and TOi profile are almost identical to Letang's! on paper, he looks like Letang minus 100 playoff games. which is not insignificant. They are a good complementary pair.

Potvin seems like an average goalie at this level. 3x Top 10 in save %, one big year of award consideration going 3rd in AST voting and 4th in Vezina voting.

yep, I think this is right where he belongs.

Great forwards on your power play units, you have serious firepower if Brunette and Jokinen are on your second unit. The pointmen aren't as strong. Siltanen and Enstrom are very strong, but there's a big drop to your 4th guy. Morris is a solid guy at this level, do you have him on the top unit so you have a natural PPQB on each unit? I'd throw Ragnarsson over McLaren, it's going to be ugly either way, but he had slightly more PP points in his career.

yeah, it's not ideal, but that's what you gotta do, hobnobs.

Kallur and Reid are strong PKers at this level. Zezel is solid, but Modin is a weaker point killing only 16% of his teams' penalties in his career. Good defensemen, no guy that looks below average here.

actually, Morris looks really below average. just 36% which is barely over his "fair share" of 33%, and for teams 12% worse than average.

you're right about Modin, but there are no better options. Actually, one. Scott young killed just 15%, but was known as a really good SHG threat thanks to his speed. I'd put him there instead.

In Vigneault, you have arguably the best coach in the draft. He should make good use of your top six and very defensively oriented third line.

Yep, pretty much the only reason I didn't go the Vigneault route is I didn't want to have to make a big bio about him.

Considering this team sat while close to 100 picks were made by other teams, it's really good.

But who are your captains and assistants? I don't think there are any ex-captains here and no one even jumps out as a letter-wearer. Rouse might be a default captain just because he's a warrior. From there it could be just about anyone... Brunette, Zezel, Modin, Ragnarsson, Morris, McLaren...

 

[Hobnobs]

Edinburgh Capitals

Alain Vigneault, Coach

John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young
Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen (C) - Mikael Renberg
Dave Reid - Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur
Fredrik Modin - Robert Reichel - Mark Hunter
Eric Daze, Johan Franzen

Marcus Ragnarsson (A) - Derek Morris
Bob Rouse (A) - Tobias Enström
Kyle McLaren - Risto Siltanen
Philippe Boucher

Felix Potvin
Jon Casey

PP1. John Sorrell - Pierre Larouche - Scott Young Derek Morris - Risto Siltanen
PP2. Andrew Brunette - Olli Jokinen - Mikael Renberg Marcus Ragnarsson - Tobias Enström

PK1. Peter Zezel - Anders Kallur Bob Rouse - Marcus Ragnarsson
PK2. Dave Reid - Scott Young Kyle McLaren - Derek Morris
​

I basically agree with your assassinations but I think both Reid and Kallur were good ES wingers. Atleast for short times. Kallur got Selke considerations when playing for the Isles checking line. Nothing too significant tho but still. And Reid was very good on those Stars teams.

 

[Hobnobs]

Regina Capitals

coach: Brian Sutter

Morris Lukowich (A) - Alexei Zhamnov - Alex Golikov
Don Smith - Alexander Kozhevnikov - Billy Harris
Dave Hunter - Tomas Plekanec - Ric Seiling
Curt Fraser - Kelly Kisio (C) - Martin Lapointe

Alex Smith (A) - Keith Brown
Harold Snepsts - Jim McKenny
Sheldon Souray - Rick Smith

Viktor Konovalenko
Marc-Andre Fleury

spares:
Lucien DeBlois (F)
James Stewart (D)
Fred Whitcroft (F)
Murray Henderson (D)

PP1 - D.Smith - Kozhevnikov - Zhamnov- Mckenny - Souray
PP2 - Lukowich - Kisio - Golikov - A.Smith - Brown
PK1 - Plekanec - Seiling - A.Smith - Snepsts
PK2 - Harris - Hunter - R.Smith - Brown
PK3 - Kisio - Zhamnov - Snepsts - Souray

1916 or earlier: D.Smith, Stewart, Whitcroft
1917-1942: A.Smith, Henderson
1943-1965: McKenny, Konovalenko
1966-1979: Lukowich, Golikov, Kozhevnikov, Harris, Seiling, R.Smith, Snepsts, Fraser, DeBlois
1980-1994: Zhamnov, Kisio, Brown, Hunter, Sutter, Lapointe
1995-2004: Souray, Fleury
in 2014: Plekanec, fleury

Once again you build a competitive team. Seventies, seriously... How much time do u put into this?

Morris Lukowich (A) - Alexei Zhamnov - Alex Golikov

Speedy first line with all the components with Lukowich being the star meaning hes the guy on the line that can do everything well and brings more dimensions to the game than the others. Two wingers known for their two-way play. I have to be honest. Ive never been a fan of Zhamnov but his offense surely makes him an effective 1st line center in this.

Don Smith - Alexander Kozhevnikov - Billy Harris

Honest here. I had to read the bios. Seems like a balanced line. Billy Harris I already knew much about and will be the glue guy. Smith seems to be a Byng trophy kinda player that scores goals but Kozhevnikov also looks like a scorer. This line doesnt look as good as your first line when it comes to chemistry.

Dave Hunter - Tomas Plekanec - Ric Seiling

Plekanec is awesome at this level imo. Paired with a dirty checker in hunter who can defend your center if things heat up and Seiling feels like Kallur. Are they comparable? Good lchecking line that can score some goals.

Curt Fraser - Kelly Kisio (C) - Martin Lapointe

Wanted both Kisio and Lapointe. So screw you and screw this line...

Alex Smith (A) - Keith Brown

Both these guys will work well with your top-6. Two-way defensemen a rushing one and a passing one. Elite pair at this level.

Harold Snepsts - Jim McKenny

The defense first guy with the irresponsible offense first guy. Balanced but perhaps McKenny should be even more sheltered?

Sheldon Souray - Rick Smith

Mean bottom pairing that will be on the ice to punish anyone in their own zone. Smith will probably be a good man to cover for Sourays defensive lapses.

Viktor Konovalenko
Marc-Andre Fleury

Konovalenko was at the top of my list. Great starter at this level. Im a little iffy when it comes to Fleury but I think he is a decent back-up in this.

PP1 - D.Smith - Kozhevnikov - Zhamnov- Mckenny - Souray
PP2 - Lukowich - Kisio - Golikov - A.Smith - Brown

Obvious set up on defense. Zhamnov was a strong PP passer so he should work well with the others. 2nd PP looks more like a battling PP unit that will be most effective when the opponent has a physical PK set up.

PK1 - Plekanec - Seiling - A.Smith - Snepsts
PK2 - Harris - Hunter - R.Smith - Brown
PK3 - Kisio - Zhamnov - Snepsts - Souray

Not much to say here. two good defensive units and a 3rd one for transition to ES.

Brian Sutter

Not a big fan of his. Seems like he wears out his welcome fast. BUT he is a jack adams winner and have certainly done a good job with teams. Will be well liked by your more physical north american players. If things go wrong he is quick to blame soft euros.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

still, it feels wrong to say that. Was there ever a time that Lang wowed anyone? I can't really explain it, but I am never really that interested in drafting Lang, even when his numbers start to look among the best. I can't quite put my finger on why. Was it linemates, maybe? Was he less of a catalyst than other comparable guys?

(by the way, when there are eight post-expansion, mostly one-dimensional scoring centers available with 6-year vsx scores so close - Larouche, Lang, Nedved, Zhamnov, Stumpel, Olczyk, Jokinen, Boldirev - I don't know if it's really accurate to say one has a "better" score than the others. They're all so close that a couple poorly chosen benchmarks could be the only thing making the top guy better than the bottom. I would call them all virtual equals to start, and look at other reasons to put guys ahead - playoffs, best seasons beyond top-6, intangibles, linemate factors, etc)

so while we're on this topic, let's look at those 8 guys and see if any stand out as being helped a lot more or a lot less than linemates by the others. These are their prime (8-11 consecutive season) help ratings, based on the same work I've been doing in the HOH wingers project using Matnor's numbers:

Jokinen 1.61
Boldirev 1.47
Larouche 1.37
Zhamnov 1.36
Nedved 1.35
Stumpel 1.23
Lang 1.21
Olczyk 1.18

It does appear Lang received more help scoring his points than most of these other guys, to a degree that is statistically noteworthy.

one more way to sort of "break the tie" would be to look at their next best seasons after their best 6.

total vsx scores (my sheet may have a couple different numbers but should be nearly the same) in seasons 7-10

Zhamnov 212
Jokinen 202
Boldirev 201
Larouche 188
Olczyk 188
Stumpel 188
Nedved 180
Lang 173

based on all this, I'd say Lang is dining out a bit on his ever-so-slightly higher 6-year VsX score. He's pretty good, I mean, almost as good as most of these guys, but if I had a to rank them, all things considered, he'd probably be only ahead of Olczyk.

I was planning on showing my work at some point so people understood where I'm coming from in these comments about top six guys, and this is a good opportunity to do so. I realize this will eventually boil down to differences in percentage systems so bear with me.

I have six year weighted scores, and I agree longevity is a great factor to consider with everyone close so I'll be posting number of seasons with a VsX score >= 50. (I realize it's binary and not as effective as what you did, but it's a quick look)

Player|6 year weighted score|# of scores above 50
Robert Lang|72.1|7
Olli Jokinen|71.4|8
Petr Nedved|69.6|7
Pierre Larouche|69.4|7
Alexei Zhamnov|68.8|9
Jozef Stumpel|66.3|6
Ivan Boldirev|63.3|8
Eddie Olczyk|61.2|7

I don't see Olczyk or Boldirev above Lang, they're both second liners for me.

I can't see Stumpel above Lang either, not much difference in years 7-10, and almost identical team help. Aside from Zhamnov's defensive game, none of the other top five bring significant intangibles to leap Lang, right? There's always the flipside of low team help too, would they have earned the same ice time on a better team like Lang did?

Playoff games in career
Lang - 91
Nedved - 71
Larouche - 64
Zhamnov - 35
Jokinen - 6

I still think Lang is an elite offensive talent at this level, and would take him 2nd-3rd in this group.

 

[seventieslord]

Once again you build a competitive team. Seventies, seriously... How much time do u put into this?

A lot less than you probably think - I just got all my bios done in 72 hours!

Speedy first line with all the components with Lukowich being the star meaning hes the guy on the line that can do everything well and brings more dimensions to the game than the others. Two wingers known for their two-way play. I have to be honest. Ive never been a fan of Zhamnov but his offense surely makes him an effective 1st line center in this.

you're right about Lukowich. If I didn't get Zhamnov or Golikov... no big deal. I can replace them. Lukowich you can't replace down here.

Golikov a two-way player? Are you just going by the part of his bio where it says he was part of a good PK duo for a while, or do you have more info on him? I pretty much draft him for offense.

Honest here. I had to read the bios. Seems like a balanced line. Billy Harris I already knew much about and will be the glue guy. Smith seems to be a Byng trophy kinda player that scores goals but Kozhevnikov also looks like a scorer. This line doesnt look as good as your first line when it comes to chemistry.

What's strange about Smith is that he was a boxing champ too. And there's some reason to believe he fought in hockey as well, based on the quotes. His PIM totals are actually above average, and he finished 1st in the NHA in PIM once, and 11th two other times (I hate using PIMs as though they're a good thing, but with older players they can come in handy to demonstrate or hint towards rough play). There's definitely conflicting info with regards to him.

I think the chemistry is fine. Harris was always the digger/playmaker for more talented linemates. Kozhevnikov is definitely a goal-heavy center, but Smith is pretty balanced despite the stats. In his era there were very few assists granted. In the same period of time in the NHA, Lalonde had 0.34 APG, Pitre had 0.29 and Smith had 0.24. Not great, but 71% of Lalonde's level is pretty awesome for an AAA player. The closest thing I can find in a modern goal scoring center is Mike Modano, who's a few levels below Lalonde, but in his prime he had 0.60 APG, so 70% of that would be 0.42 APG, but Lalonde was better so Smith probably compares to a guy who had 0.50 APG during his career - or at least during his prime - which is about Brunette level, give or take. (while being a better goal scorer).

Anyway, yes, the line is a bit goal heavy, which will happen anytime you have a goal scoring center, but I don't think it's out of whack.

Plekanec is awesome at this level imo. Paired with a dirty checker in hunter who can defend your center if things heat up and Seiling feels like Kallur. Are they comparable? Good lchecking line that can score some goals.

I don't know, I feel like Seiling has more in the way of quotes supporting his checking ability, and I think I like his PK stats better too, considering he had far less team help (less reason to believe other players were the reason for the stats) and maintained them for double the sample size. Seiling scored an adjusted 24 ESP/season, Kallur 27 but again, sample size. Seiling averaged 39 in his best sample that was the size of Kallur's career.

Hunter is a pretty nice commodity, being both exceptional defensively and very tough. Down in the AAA you typically have to pick one or the other (see Plekanec, Fraser and Lapointe in my own lineup!)

The defense first guy with the irresponsible offense first guy. Balanced but perhaps McKenny should be even more sheltered?

Maybe ideally. But I really had to shelter Souray after learning more about his ES ice time... check his bio, he was definitely more of a special teams specialist in his career than a top ES guy. I struggled a lot with how to configure these six, and ultimately I had to go with this:

- Souray 3rd pairing, non-negotiable
- McKenny should not be top pairing
- Souray and McKenny should obviously not play together
- Brown's mental game was not great for half his career, so can't trust him to be a babysitter either
- righties on the right, plus Rick Smith who can play either side the same
- Alex Smith is my best guy and has to be top pairing
- Therefore... Souray has to go with a steady rightie or Rick Smith, therefore Rick is the only option
- McKenny can't be top pairing, therefore needs to be on 2nd, needs lefty partner, Alex Smith has to be 1st pairing, so have to put Snepsts there
- leaves lefty Alex Smith and righty Keith Brown on top

I got lucky, because I underestimated Souray's flaws when taking him and also knew little about Brown's poor early and mid-career mental game. I could have had a disaster on my hands but was able to make it work.

Konovalenko was at the top of my list. Great starter at this level. Im a little iffy when it comes to Fleury but I think he is a decent back-up in this.

yeah, Fleury is iffy, no doubt about it. I really had to weigh the good and the bad with him - in the end I was comfortable, though there's one more who is just as good still available.

Not a big fan of his. Seems like he wears out his welcome fast. BUT he is a jack adams winner and have certainly done a good job with teams. Will be well liked by your more physical north american players. If things go wrong he is quick to blame soft euros.

true, I thought about that myself. However, Kozhevnikov was far from soft, so he only has Zhamnov (and maybe Golikov?) to use as whipping boys. Par for the course for most AAA teams, I think.

I was planning on showing my work at some point so people understood where I'm coming from in these comments about top six guys, and this is a good opportunity to do so. I realize this will eventually boil down to differences in percentage systems so bear with me.

I have six year weighted scores, and I agree longevity is a great factor to consider with everyone close so I'll be posting number of seasons with a VsX score >= 50. (I realize it's binary and not as effective as what you did, but it's a quick look)

Player|6 year weighted score|# of scores above 50
Robert Lang|72.1|7
Olli Jokinen|71.4|8
Petr Nedved|69.6|7
Pierre Larouche|69.4|7
Alexei Zhamnov|68.8|9
Jozef Stumpel|66.3|6
Ivan Boldirev|63.3|8
Eddie Olczyk|61.2|7

I don't see Olczyk or Boldirev above Lang, they're both second liners for me.

Yeah, I don't think Boldirev or Olczyk is quite that bad. I think it could be a few bad benchmarks hurting them more than most guys.

I can't see Stumpel above Lang either, not much difference in years 7-10, and almost identical team help. Aside from Zhamnov's defensive game, none of the other top five bring significant intangibles to leap Lang, right? There's always the flipside of low team help too, would they have earned the same ice time on a better team like Lang did?

Playoff games in career
Lang - 91
Nedved - 71
Larouche - 64
Zhamnov - 35
Jokinen - 6

I still think Lang is an elite offensive talent at this level, and would take him 2nd-3rd in this group.

I can buy this. I think it's actually important to note he got into a lot more playoff games than most of the others.

Zhamnov's defensive game? I know he was an OK penalty killer, but at ES? He's the last guy I have to do a bio for because I was saving the most labour-intensive for last... I have 32 passages to dictate out tonight.

One more intangible would be Nedved being able to play the point. Lang's size is another (though he's pretty docile). So yeah, including Zhamnov's possible defense (I'll find out when I do the bio tonight), we're really reaching to find intangibles in these guys.

So, all that said, doesn't it still bother you a bit and close the gap considerably that he had more help scoring those points than most of these guys, and did less outside of his best six years than most of them?

It's not easy picking among these guys. I think we can agree Olczyk is least impressive overall, but after that, there's reasons to like anyone the most or least.