AAA 2012 Semis: Regina Pat Canadians vs. Pittsburgh Professionals

[seventieslord]

Darryl Sutter

Greg Adams - George Gee - Petr Sykora
Vaclav Prospal - Mike Bullard - Dmitri Khristich
Alexandre Burrows - Bill Clement "A" - Bill Collins
Bob Kelly - Archie Hooper - Howie Meeker

Dale Rolfe - Leo Reise, Sr.
Mark Hardy "A" - Doug Lidster
Harold Snepsts "C" - Tom Poti

Cesare Maniago
Richard Brodeur

Spares:
Reg Hamilton, D
Steve Rucchin, C
Igor Liba, F
Bert McCaffrey, RW/D

Power Play #1
Vaclav Prospal - Mike Bullard - Dmitri Khristich
Tom Poti - Leo Reise

Power Play #2
Greg Adams - George Gee - Petr Sykora
Mark Hardy - Doug Lidster

Penalty Kill #1
Bill Clement - Bill Collins
Harold Snepsts - Dale Rolfe

Penalty Kill #2
Archie Hooper - Alexandre Burrows
Mark Hardy - Doug Lidster


VS

Pittsburgh Professionals

Coach: Frank Boucher

Bep Guidolin - Robert Reichel - Earl Robinson
Lowell MacDonald - Jozef Stumpel - Shawn McEachern
Benoit Hogue - Christian Ruuttu - Ken Schinkel
Dave Hunter - Curtis Brown - Keith McCreary
Spares: Pete Horeck, Veli-Pekka Ketola

Ralph "Scotty" Bowman - Keith Brown
Tom Reid - Philippe Boucher
Dana Murzyn - Jeff Norton
Spares: Rick Lapointe and Frank Mathers

Daren Puppa
Hec Fowler

​

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Two very deep and well-coached teams. Should be a good one.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

[Raw stats / overpass's adjusted stats - ES (per season rates), PP (per season rates, usage, team rating with 1.00 being average and higher scores being above average) / Best Six VS #2 Scores by 70s method / Team Scoring Placements
Playoff Scoring]

Reichel - 830 GP, 630 PTS / 488 ESP (46), 250 PPP (24, 49%, 1.06) / 400 / 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
70 Playoff GP, 31 PTS

Sykora - 1017 GP, 721 PTS / 600 ESP (48), 312 PPP (26, 60%, 1.07) / 399 / 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4
133 Playoff GP, 74 PTS, x2 SC

Adams -1056 GP, 743 PTS / 532 ESP (40), 229 PPP (17, 44%, .87) / 319 / 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 10, 10
81 Playoff GP, 42 PTS


[Raw stats / Best Six VS #2 Scores by 70s method / Team Scoring Placements
Playoff Scoring]
Gee
551 GP, 318 PTS / 359 / 2, 3, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 11
41 Playoff GP, 19 PTS, x1 SC

Guidolin - 519 GP, 278 PTS / 312 / 3, 3, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 11
24 Playoff GP, 12 PTS

Robinson - 417 GP, 181 PTS / 350 / 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 11
25 Playoff GP, 9 PTS, x1 SC

Sykora and Robinson are the two best players on our lines. Sykora is overqualified for this level, whereas Robinson is merely very good to elite. Both will have to be dealt with or they will certainly produce in this series.

Gee has excellent VS2 scores for an 06 guy, but I think Reichel still claims an edge. He wasn't great in the playoffs, but I think his international career helps put him ahead here. Reichel doesn't distance himself from Gee in the Vs #2 scores as much as I'd like, but like Guidolin and Adams I think the modern player who played a bigger part in his team's scoring is more valuable.

I mentioned Reichel had a decent defensive game for a scorer last thread, but Gee's defense is far more notable. I think he and McEachern probably have the best checking skills of our top sixers.

Adams and Guidolin round our lines out, and I think Adams has an edge. His VS2 scores are the weakest of any post-expansion member of our top sixers, but he has great longevity and like Guidolin does more than just score. I don't think he's as tough or fearsome as Guidolin, but his team scoring placements are definitely flattering.

I think these lines are pretty evenly matched, but I'd give Regina an edge with Sykora who seems to be in a position to succeed with these hardworking types by his side.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sykora and Robinson are the two best players on our lines. Sykora is overqualified for this level, whereas Robinson is merely very good to elite. Both will have to be dealt with or they will certainly produce in this series.

Gee has excellent VS2 scores for an 06 guy, but I think Reichel still claims an edge. He wasn't great in the playoffs, but I think his international career helps put him ahead here. Reichel doesn't distance himself from Gee in the Vs #2 scores as much as I'd like, but like Guidolin and Adams I think the modern player who played a bigger part in his team's scoring is more valuable.

I mentioned Reichel had a decent defensive game for a scorer last thread, but Gee's defense is far more notable. I think he and McEachern probably have the best checking skills of our top sixers.

Adams and Guidolin round our lines out, and I think Adams has an edge. His VS2 scores are the weakest of any post-expansion member of our top sixers, but he has great longevity and like Guidolin does more than just score. I don't think he's as tough or fearsome as Guidolin, but his team scoring placements are definitely flattering.

I think these lines are pretty evenly matched, but I'd give Regina an edge with Sykora who seems to be in a position to succeed with these hardworking types by his side.

I think that was fair. Only thing I would disagree with is your statement that Robinson is your best player. I think Reichel is clearly better.

Adams and Guidolin are quite similar. The difference between Sykora and Robertson is also pretty close to the difference between Reichel and Gee. In a regular season match-up, I think both sides would have a hard time claiming much of an advantage.

This being a play-off series, however, I think the play-off abilities of Petr Sykora and Robert Reichel, who are the engines of their respective lines, are going to create a gap. Reichel's international record somewhat saves his play-off resume, but it's still below average. Sylora's play-off record, on the other hand, is likely the strongest in this draft.

Adams, Gee, Guidolin, and Robinson all have on-and-off years in the play-offs, and I don't think their play-off performances will be significantly different than their regular season.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

I think that was fair. Only thing I would disagree with is your statement that Robinson is your best player. I think Reichel is clearly better.

Adams and Guidolin are quite similar. The difference between Sykora and Robertson is also pretty close to the difference between Reichel and Gee. In a regular season match-up, I think both sides would have a hard time claiming much of an advantage.

This being a play-off series, however, I think the play-off abilities of Petr Sykora and Robert Reichel, who are the engines of their respective lines, are going to create a gap. Reichel's international record somewhat saves his play-off resume, but it's still below average. Sylora's play-off record, on the other hand, is likely the strongest in this draft.

Adams, Gee, Guidolin, and Robinson all have on-and-off years in the play-offs, and I don't think their play-off performances will be significantly different than their regular season.

I think Robinson and Gee were better than Adams and Guidolin were in the playoffs. I see Adams and Guidolin as more of one big year territory than the others. But I agree with the statement that none of them did anything to significantly enhance a resume.

Also I wanted to contest the statement that Sykora has the best playoff record, but if he doesn't then maybe Jude Drouin does? I wouldn't be worried about it either way.

I'm actually worried enough about Sykora that I'm thinking about finding room for Pete Horeck this series. I know you called Sykora a willing battler for pucks, but I definitely think the way to play him is to hit him early and often.

Everyone at this level played with better talent during their careers than here, but Sykora's success comes as the trigger man finding space. He had the luxury of Elias/Malkin to draw attention and Arnott/Malone to do his digging. I think Gee and Adams are suitable linemates, but it's going to be an adjustment when he's drawing more attention than them. Also as much as I buy Adam's ability to create space and work along the boards, his bio also makes it clear he's no grinder or particularly strong. I don't like his ability to serve as a "policeman" for Sykora and I intend to give him something worth policing.

Sykora's on the right side and I couldn't have my left side defensemen fit the game we need to play against him any better. All night he's going to have one of Bowman, Reid, or Murzyn on his side of the ice. All three of those guys are big and bring a serious physical game.

That brings me to my forwards and the idea of dressing Horeck. Guidolin was a nasty fellow who's gonna get his shots in on Sykora without question. I found the most absurdly positive article about Hunter's work bodychecking Lafleur in the playoffs so I really like the idea of Sykora receiving a few of those checks. Hogue hits, but he's not as big like Guidolin or my defenders, or as punishing as Hunter. If I could find room for Horeck, that makes this cause even more effective. I don't think its as simple as hit Sykora and he goes away, but I intend to make him really earn his points this series.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Stumpel - 957 GP, 677 PTS / 609 ESP (51), 238 PPP (20, 49%, .99) / 397 / 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6
55 Playoff GP, 30 PTS

Bullard
727 GP, 674 PTS / 391 ESP (40), 221 PPP (24, 47%. .97) / 402 / 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5
40 Playoff GP, 29 PTS

MacDonald - 460 GP, 379 PTS / 301 ESP (51), 110 PPP (19, 44%, .95) / 361 / 2, 3, 3, 5, 7, 7
30 Playoff GP, 22 PTS

Prospal
1060 GP, 735 PTS / 578 ESP (48), 254 PPP (22) / 390 / 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5
65 Playoff GP, 35 PTS

McEachern - 911 GP, 579 PTS / 534 ESP (47), 151 PPP (13, 36%, 1.00) 20%PK, .99, 29 SHP / 348 / 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9
97 Playoff GP, 37 PTS, x1 SC

Khristich
811 GP, 596 PTS / 484 ESP (47), 203 PPP (20, 49%, 1.09) / 372 / 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8
75 Playoff GP, 40 PTS

Not too sure how to make sense of centers. Similar VS2 scores and adjusted scoring. I guess you could say Stumpel did more of his damage at even-strength, and Bullard was deadly with the man advantage, but I'm thinking this is more or less a wash again.

The wingers are much easier to see an edge in. MacDonald has his nice little peak, but Prospal is an excellent winger here. His Vs2 and team scoring placements are exceptional and he's definitely better than MacDonald.

Khristich seems to be undervalued because of his LoH profile. I think McEachern is definitely better defensively and probably provided a more consistent effort, but Khristich's offense is superior. Prospal and Khristich were two deserving all-stars that push Regina's line ahead here.

 

[seventieslord]

Gee has excellent VS2 scores for an 06 guy, but I think Reichel still claims an edge. He wasn't great in the playoffs, but I think his international career helps put him ahead here. Reichel doesn't distance himself from Gee in the Vs #2 scores as much as I'd like, but like Guidolin and Adams I think the modern player who played a bigger part in his team's scoring is more valuable.

Meh, offensive production is pretty even. 359 pre-expansion is pretty much equal to 400 post-expansion. That’s as close as it gets.

Not that Gee was anything special in the playoffs as a whole, but Reichel was awful. Gee did step up in 1950 in the wake of Gordie’s injury. Reichel makes up for it with international play, as you say.

I mentioned Reichel had a decent defensive game for a scorer last thread, but Gee's defense is far more notable. I think he and McEachern probably have the best checking skills of our top sixers.

Please tell me where you’re getting this from! You didn’t search out old “God Bless Canada†posts, did you? Because that’s the only place I’ve ever seen Gee to have “notable†defense. He’s likely passable considering he was on a lower line in the O6 and had some SHP, but that’s all we know, and we looked. (try searching “Gee†in google archives!)

I think that was fair. Only thing I would disagree with is your statement that Robinson is your best player. I think Reichel is clearly better.

The way I see it, Reichel was right there in that class with a dozen others entering the draft, but Robinson stood out as THE most potent pre-expansion winger available. That has to count for something.

Also I wanted to contest the statement that Sykora has the best playoff record, but if he doesn't then maybe Jude Drouin does? I wouldn't be worried about it either way.

Per-game his stats don’t look stellar, but considering it is still well over half a point per game from 1997 to 2009 and is the most GP, pts, finals appearances and cups of anyone here, I’d still say it’s the best.

Drouin’s numbers are nice but he piled those points up in weak expansion division matchups, apparently.

but it's going to be an adjustment when he's drawing more attention than them.

I think that’s true for any scoring forward here.

Sykora's on the right side and I couldn't have my left side defensemen fit the game we need to play against him any better. All night he's going to have one of Bowman, Reid, or Murzyn on his side of the ice. All three of those guys are big and bring a serious physical game.

Murzyn, yes, but Bowman and Reid? I’m not seeing it in your bios. They seem like steady defensive specialists.

Not too sure how to make sense of centers. Similar VS2 scores and adjusted scoring. I guess you could say Stumpel did more of his damage at even-strength, and Bullard was deadly with the man advantage, but I'm thinking this is more or less a wash again.

More or less. I realize that Bullard’s per game numbers are actually a lot lower there, but also overpass’ adjusted numbers, like most adjusted numbers, favour DPE players considerably. With “adjusted adjusted†numbers they are pretty much even. Which is what you concluded anyway.

The wingers are much easier to see an edge in. MacDonald has his nice little peak, but Prospal is an excellent winger here. His Vs2 and team scoring placements are exceptional and he's definitely better than MacDonald.

Agree.

Khristich seems to be undervalued because of his LoH profile. I think McEachern is definitely better defensively and probably provided a more consistent effort, but Khristich's offense is superior. Prospal and Khristich were two deserving all-stars that push Regina's line ahead here.

I definitely disagree about McEachern defensively. Solid, yes, but better than Khristich, no. There is evidence from multiple sources all the way through Khristich’s career that he was a very good defensive player.

As you say, Khristich is better offensively. That’s not hard to see. Although, I’m still getting my head around the fact that he was 2nd on a team in scoring three times… I had no idea.

Although – in 1998 an Afredsson injury prevented him from rightfully being 3rd, and in 2004 a Heatley car crash and Savard injury prevented him from being rightfully 4th…. Just sayin’. But, I guess you can take a knife to anyone’s resume like that. It’s not like the 1996 and 1997 Kings that Khristich led were any good. (the 1994 Caps, 1998 and 1999 Bruins were though)

In terms of consistency of effort… that is Khristich’s weakness, along with being injury prone. So McEachern would have that edge. But even when “off†I think Khristich can be better than McEachern at his usual consistent pace. Heck, after what was arguably his best offensive season, he was still lambasted for inconsistency!

 

[Dreakmur]

Murzyn, yes, but Bowman and Reid? I’m not seeing it in your bios. They seem like steady defensive specialists.

The issue with Murzyn is skating. He's as likely to trip over his own feet as he is to catch Sykora.

Actually, the real issue is that Murzyn just isn't good enough to handle being matched up against arguably the best offensive player in the draft.

 

[seventieslord]

The issue with Murzyn is skating. He's as likely to trip over his own feet as he is to catch Sykora.

Actually, the real issue is that Murzyn just isn't good enough to handle being matched up against arguably the best offensive player in the draft.

he was actually his team's #1 ES defenseman a few times. He was very good defensively, but yeah, notoriously slow.

Actually, he's a poor man's, shorter career, injury-prone Snepsts... agree?

 

[Dreakmur]

he was actually his team's #1 ES defenseman a few times. He was very good defensively, but yeah, notoriously slow.

Actually, he's a poor man's, shorter career, injury-prone Snepsts... agree?

I wouldn't want to match Snepsts against Sykora.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Meh, offensive production is pretty even. 359 pre-expansion is pretty much equal to 400 post-expansion. That’s as close as it gets.

Agreed but how do you see Adams vs Guidolin then? If you call it a wash, shouldn't I be calling Guidolin better then?

Please tell me where you’re getting this from! You didn’t search out old “God Bless Canada” posts, did you? Because that’s the only place I’ve ever seen Gee to have “notable” defense. He’s likely passable considering he was on a lower line in the O6 and had some SHP, but that’s all we know, and we looked. (try searching “Gee” in google archives!)

Maybe I'm wrongly taking his PK ability as defensive ability

Murzyn, yes, but Bowman and Reid? I’m not seeing it in your bios. They seem like steady defensive specialists.

Two of the hard checking defensemen who cross sticks in this series are shown flanking the battered mug, with Ralph "Scotty" Bowman, Red Wing bumper on the left, and "Red" Horner, Toronto battering ram right...

I took that as evidence Bowman like to threw his weight around. I've got the quotes about him fighting, but I'll try to find more about his nastiness.

I don't have evidence that Reid was mean, but his coach praised his ability to land his hits. He was probably more steady than the other two, but he still seemed to hit.

I wouldn't want to match Snepsts against Sykora.

Why not though? Sykora is your best weapon, but he was never a burner in his career right? I mean he essentially got run out of town by Byslma because his skating wasn't up to snuff.

edit: just checked your bio and it seems he was noted for his speed for a number of years early in his career, before slowing down. Nothing too special there I guess.

*Byslma's idea of a breakout has the wingers quickly skating up ice to try to deflect in, or get close enough to waive off the icing, a headman pass fired up from the defensive zone. With the skating required and forechecking that follows the attempted deflect-in Sykora just wasn't a good fit.

 

[Dreakmur]

Why not though? Sykora is your best weapon

You answered your own question there. Sykora is our best weapon. If you want to match a defenseman who will be exposed against him, I won't try to change your mind.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

You answered your own question there. Sykora is our best weapon. If you want to match a defenseman who will be exposed against him, I won't try to change your mind.

I never said he was being matched, you did. I said I think his skillset will lend itself to bothering Sykora and he happens to be on the same side of the ice and questioned why you thought it was so one-sided.

Don't we expect all three of our pairs to see some time against our top two lines?

 

[Dreakmur]

I never said he was being matched, you did. I said I think his skillset will lend itself to bothering Sykora and he happens to be on the same side of the ice and questioned why you thought it was so one-sided.

Fair enough.

I still think Murzyn on the ice against our top line at any time is a mistake.

Don't we expect all three of our pairs to see some time against our top two lines?

I think your 1st line is significantly stronger than your 2nd. I see no reason not to focus on shutting down the Reichel line.

Our plan in to use the Burrows-Clement-Collins line and the Hardy-Lidster pairing against the Guidolin-Reichel-Robinson.

We'll use the Rolfe-Reise pairing with our 1st and 2nd lines as much as possible. Reise jumping into the play will help create a lof of chances.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Definitely standing by what I said about Bowman. He certainly sounds like he was a tough SOB.

Praise for Bowman
Bowman, who quit the amateur ranks this season, gave one of the best exhibition of defensive play a visitor has staged here in several seasons. His aggressive tactics made him a marked man with the burly Bruins. He and Nels Stewart, Boston center, drew majors, the only penalties of the game, for using their fists after a high-stick exchange.

...the big Boston center was forced against the sideboards by defenceman Scotty Bowman. Both carried their sticks high and when the Senator whacked the Bruin over the head, Stewart drove his fist into his face. This flare-up caused an exciting jam, both teams combined and aided officials in separating the battlers...

The puck was slashed out of Boston ice and after considerable mid-zone scrimmaging, Bowman quit the defence to rush. He carried down center, passed left to Cook, who feinted Tiny Thompson out of position before rapping home the opening tally.

Bowman carried back, and he and Shore bumped each other in rugged fashion when they met in the back of the Boston cage.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...BAJ&pg=1025,790516&dq=scotty+bowman+hit&hl=en

Jack [Adams] also had words of praise for his defence, Bucko McDonald, Ebbie Goodfellow, Scotty Bowman, and Doug Young slowed Maroons down a lot with their heavy blasts.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AJ&pg=5339,2644225&dq=scotty+bowman+hit&hl=en

Bucko McDonald and Young will form one defence pair and Ebbie Goodfellow and Roulston or Bowman the other. Smith is one of the best netminders in the business and those defencemen can really hit, and attack in their spare time.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AJ&pg=6348,4163377&dq=scotty+bowman+hit&hl=en

Young Norm Smith was subjected to a bitter attack for the remaining 11 minutes, particularly while Scotty Bowman served a penalty for bodying Trottier from behind.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6866,3887388&dq=scotty+bowman+check&hl=en

Bowman and Shill were penalized for dueling with their sticks.

One of the most stitched men in hockey, this fellow, Ralph Scotty Bowman, for many a years a regular defenceman with Detroit Red Wings, yesterday passed from the National Hockey League when he was sold by the Detroit Hockey Club to Buffalo Bisons, new entry in the American League.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=4255,4870407&dq=scotty+bowman+check&hl=en

Cy Wentworth, brilliant defence ace of the Maroons, was reclining in his berth, his head covered with heavy bandages, the result of a blow from Scotty Bowman in last night's match. Wentworth had four stitches drawn in the right side of his head and he was very weak from loss of blood.

"Bowman cut down Cy Wentworth and got away with it." said one of the Maroon officials. "He wasn't even penalized...We expect to get our usual share of injuries, but it is disgusting when clean players like Wentworth are given the works."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...J&pg=1640,565014&dq=scotty+bowman+check&hl=en

 

[seventieslord]

First and last passages are pretty good. The rest is pretty weak. In any case, this all should have been in your bio before. Nice emergency in-series research!

 

[Dreakmur]

IMO, the biggest difference in this series is Leo Reise. From 2-6, both teams have pretty solid and steady defenseman. I like our guys from 2 to 6, but there's isn't a whole lot of difference between them/ The big difference is at the 1 spot. Leo Reise is a dominant game-breaker at this level. I don't see anybody on the Pittsburgh blueline who is even close to Reise.

Another advantage for Regina is the powerful 3rd line. With Clement, Collins, and Burrows, Brent Sutter has the option of really slowing down that Guidolin-Reichel-Robinson unit. Pittsburgh's 3rd line is decent, but not close to Regina's.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

IMO, the biggest difference in this series is Leo Reise. From 2-6, both teams have pretty solid and steady defenseman. I like our guys from 2 to 6, but there's isn't a whole lot of difference between them/ The big difference is at the 1 spot. Leo Reise is a dominant game-breaker at this level. I don't see anybody on the Pittsburgh blueline who is even close to Reise.

Another advantage for Regina is the powerful 3rd line. With Clement, Collins, and Burrows, Brent Sutter has the option of really slowing down that Guidolin-Reichel-Robinson unit. Pittsburgh's 3rd line is decent, but not close to Regina's.

Can't really disagree here. I really like how my defense came out, but Regina has a very nice blueline as well. Reise is definitely the best guy here. Clement's in a class of his own as well.

Sutter's great too, but so is Boucher, both well-coached teams. I like Puppa over Maniago, but Maniago was better in the playoffs so it gets murky.

 

[Dreakmur]

Can't really disagree here. I really like how my defense came out, but Regina has a very nice blueline as well. Reise is definitely the best guy here.

We lucked out with Reise. He was on both our radars, but more of a 2nd pair puck-mover. Once we picked him, the info we were able to find turned him into a steal... and likely a 2nd pairing MLD defenseman next year.

Sutter's great too, but so is Boucher, both well-coached teams.

Yeah, two of the best coaches here. We know Sutte likes to match up lines and use roleplayers for energy boosts, so he definately fits out team build.

I wish we knew more of Boucher's style. If we did, he might be a MLD coach.

I like Puppa over Maniago, but Maniago was better in the playoffs so it gets murky.

Yeah, goalies at this level are tough. I'm not even sure we have our best goalie starting

 

[seventieslord]

You guys have been pretty fair and reasonable. I don't have much to add, really, although we pretty much banged out the last half of the comparisons.

that having been said, let's get this over with. "might as well go for a vote-ah, nobody hurts, and nobody cries..."

I'll send out the PMs right away.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Regina wins in 5 games.

Stars:

1. Petr Sykora
2. Daren Puppa
3. Cesare Maniago/Greg Adams

 

[seventieslord]

Good work, bbs... it was a pleasure having you as an opponent!

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Good work, bbs... it was a pleasure having you as an opponent!

Thanks! Great series fellas, I figured this would be the end of the line for my squad. Go get Martin