A Win/Loss record of two Edmonton pro sports franchises.

[Replacement*]

Recent discussions about negativity/positivity/the usual have resulted in much questioning about why people are so cynical about the Oilers (fairly understood) and why they are so cynical of the Esks org (not as well understood for the reasons, ie records, I'll post below.

First of all both orgs have had some success. Oilers have 5 SC's and Esks 13 Grey Cups(last one must've been unlucky)

But Oilers haven't won anything since 90 and outside of the magic year haven't been a contending team in any one season now for over 30yrs. Esks last won the Championship in 2005. But leagues contain vastly different numbers of teams so that comparison is apples/oranges.

So lets look at some records of the respective clubs and what they have offered fans.

Starting with Oilers

since 1972;

1644W 1608L 287T (OTL and SOL are counted as losses as befits proper comparison) So basically a .500 team despite a decade of prominence.

Lets look at NHL record alone.

1376W 1310L 263T (Again basically a .500 team despite a decade of a legendary club.)

Now lets correct for the decade of this teams prominence. Since 1991;

741W 944L 138T (ouch)

Lets see if theres any mercy for the Oilers home crowd during that span;

418W 428L 62T (wow, even a losing record at home during a long suffering span)


Now lets look at the Esks who for some reason endure more negativity(albeit hard to understand) on this board;

All time Franchise record since 1949;

707W-515L (pretty damn good)

Record since 1972(matching Oilers timeframe)

482W 322L (ditto, whats to complain about)

Record since 1991(again matching post Oilers dynastic years)

247W 211L (not as good as previously but still something to be happy about.

Lets look at Esks home record since 1991:

145W 85L (Damned good and little to complain about.)


Just thought it was interesting to compare and contrast. Like I said I have a hard time comprehending negativity when it comes to the Eskimos org who are typically good and put a good team, good product on the field for good value, vs the Oilers who typically put mediocre teams on the ice, gouge fans as high a tickets prices as they can, suckhole for public arena funding, and deliver relatively poor product.

It would seem that if either of these orgs were worthy of some cynicism its the Oilers.

If people want to discuss feel free.

Click to read more...

 

[Jumptheshark]

Note to replacement--I applied to the grump of the board and have not passed on the title yet.

Some people are just how bad we have been over the last twenty years

 

[guymez]

Some seriously specious reasoning here.

For starters how is an 8 team league where a ridiculously high 75% of the teams make the playoffs even remotely congruent to a league of 30 teams where 53% of the teams make the playoffs?

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Pre-cap era years don't really matter all that much. It was a very uneven playing field (much moreso than today).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

No championship appearances for either team in 8 years.

 

[Replacement*]

Some seriously specious reasoning here.

For starters how is an 8 team league where a ridiculously high 75% of the teams make the playoffs even remotely congruent to a league of 30 teams where 53% of the teams make the playoffs?

Funny how I didn't mention playoffs once. Talk about your specious reasoning. How about if I start a thread about the color white and you critique it for its views on black??

90% of the thread is about WIN/LOSS record. Try again.

In anycase, and fwiw the NHL for years and years had 16/21 teams making the playoffs. Not sure why I'm even bothering to go OT on that but just because..

Finally, the only "reasoning" contained in the thread is why would negativity/positivity not be in proportion or balance to Win/loss record? I'm curious about that. Anything other than that seems somewhat illogical. What actually determines team based happiness, congruence, passivity, joy? I think somewhat interesting questions.

 

[Replacement*]

Pre-cap era years don't really matter all that much. It was a very uneven playing field (much moreso than today).

IN the scheme of things a very small time component actually. Smaller than the dynastic years themselves. In anycase several teams with lower salary still managed to field competitive squads.

I could further add the Oilers were one of the first clubs to engage in payroll escalation and raiding as did any WHA squad. So ironically bringing that world of inflation upon themselves.

 

[yukoner88]

IN the scheme of things a very small time component actually. Smaller than the dynastic years themselves. In anycase several teams with lower salary still managed to field competitive squads.

I could further add the Oilers were one of the first clubs to engage in payroll escalation and raiding as did any WHA squad. So ironically bringing that world of inflation upon themselves.

what was the team budget in the 70s compared to the 90s?

 

[guymez]

Funny how I didn't mention playoffs once. Talk about your specious reasoning. How about if I start a thread about the color white and you critique it for its views on black??

90% of the thread is about WIN/LOSS record. Try again.

In anycase, and fwiw the NHL for years and years had 16/21 teams making the playoffs. Not sure why I'm even bothering to go OT on that but just because..

Finally, the only "reasoning" contained in the thread is why would negativity/positivity not be in proportion or balance to Win/loss record? I'm curious about that. Anything other than that seems somewhat illogical. What actually determines team based happiness, congruence, passivity, joy? I think somewhat interesting questions.

Ummm...you mentioned contending teams. Last time I checked that involved making the playoffs. The vast majority of the Oilers history involves a League that was bigger than 21 teams.

Also...for reasons only you understand you think these comparisons are relevant and that by some mysterious metric the Eskimos have received more negativity.

Carry on.

 

[Replacement*]

what was the team budget in the 70s compared to the 90s?

Impossible to say due to not all salaries being disclosed and due to there being no salary cap.

It is quite clear and agreed that the WHA bidding wars and paying star players far more than they were paid in the monopolistic NHL led to salary inflation. Which curiously never stopped once the WHA was disbanded with 4 teams joining the NHL.

As examples Bobby Hull was paid 1M contract. The most he ever made. Gerry Cheevers, Derek Sanderson, JC Tremblay also being some early high paid WHA marquee players.

 

[Replacement*]

Ummm...you mentioned contending teams. Last time I checked that involved making the playoffs. The vast majority of the Oilers history involves a League that was bigger than 21 teams.

Also...for reasons only you understand you think these comparisons are relevant and that by some mysterious metric the Eskimos have received more negativity.

Carry on.

Its funny that in the same thought I also mentioned Apples and Oranges comparison which I would imagine is me acknowledging just that. I almost had to do a word search to see an instance of my use of "contending"= 1 use. Playoff = no use (thus my referencing the odd choice of nomenclature in your initial rebuttal)

The latter consideration is more valid. Positivity/negativity is actually subjective. (as much as it gets freely labeled here...) I do find however that the critique of the Eskimos even in a winning year is a bit off. The thread feels like its negatively skewed. Which is perhaps odd this year. One could I guess case by case categorize whether the comments in the Esks thread are positive or negative and what the +/- coefficient/60mins would be. Maybe David Staples could have a go if he had any interest in the CFL. Or Tad. That would be interesting.

btw I'm jk with the latter just ftr.

The reality is I got bored and wanted to look at the respective overall records of the two teams. I love looking over records like that. Weird that way

I'm jonesing for regular season, can you tell? lol

Speaking of Jones, anybody even remotely liking the player can get his jersey for drastic markdowns anywhere from 35-50bucks. lol that theres still 12 left on the rack of that one specific departing player. Even the Belovs sold out. Paajarvi Jersey found at MWTC for 17bucks lol. All the former Gagner jerseys sold out months ago as collector items...

No I didn't buy a Paajarvi jersey, asked the wife is she wanted one...

 

[Horseradish]

It's too bad because the NFL, with the ability to watch eery game in real time now and a huge influx of fantasy platforms in recent years, has badly eclipsed the CFL.

I don't understand it. Most American sports fans love College Football and NFL (in addition to one or more of baseball, basketball, hockey, and car racing-- often multiple versions of these too). I don't know why Canadians aren't largely that way as well.

The football quality in the CFL is better than NCAA and it's a unique game-- and our game. Nobody else plays the way we do. Why not embrace that rather than compare it as inferior to the NFL? Makes no sense to me.

 

[McDrai]

It's too bad because the NFL, with the ability to watch eery game in real time now and a huge influx of fantasy platforms in recent years, has badly eclipsed the CFL.

I don't understand it. Most American sports fans love College Football and NFL (in addition to one or more of baseball, basketball, hockey, and car racing-- often multiple versions of these too). I don't know why Canadians aren't largely that way as well.

The football quality in the CFL is better than NCAA and it's a unique game-- and our game. Nobody else plays the way we do. Why not embrace that rather than compare it as inferior to the NFL? Makes no sense to me.

Maybe if we had 30+ teams in the CFL with the best talent in the world people would be more interested?

 

[doulos]

Why are we not including the Edmonton Rush since we're discussing non-Oiler fringe sports like the CFL? Flat out horrible reasoning across the board.

 

[The Dayvan Cowboy]

It's too bad because the NFL, with the ability to watch eery game in real time now and a huge influx of fantasy platforms in recent years, has badly eclipsed the CFL.

I don't understand it. Most American sports fans love College Football and NFL (in addition to one or more of baseball, basketball, hockey, and car racing-- often multiple versions of these too). I don't know why Canadians aren't largely that way as well.

The football quality in the CFL is better than NCAA and it's a unique game-- and our game. Nobody else plays the way we do. Why not embrace that rather than compare it as inferior to the NFL? Makes no sense to me.

It is a couple of things for me:

- 9 teams. I know a lot of junior hockey leagues that have more teams and are therefore more compelling to follow.

- Rules: A lot of people like them, but they seem so bush-league to me.

- Quality: The CFLs best players would be among the NFLs worst.

I've been to college football games. I sincerely doubt a Grey Cup between Saskatchewan and (some other team) could match the atmosphere for a good college football game live honestly.

To me watching the CFL is like watching the AHL or ECHL instead of the ECHL.

 

[Replacement*]

Why are we not including the Edmonton Rush since we're discussing non-Oiler fringe sports like the CFL? Flat out horrible reasoning across the board.

I wouldn't put Edmonton Rush in there with the two major pro teams in this City. Not sure really what you're stating.

Plus the search engine I use doesn't even input NLL stats afaik.

"Fringe sports like the CFL"

lol, close to 50K going to the game tonight.

 

[Replacement*]

It's too bad because the NFL, with the ability to watch eery game in real time now and a huge influx of fantasy platforms in recent years, has badly eclipsed the CFL.

I don't understand it. Most American sports fans love College Football and NFL (in addition to one or more of baseball, basketball, hockey, and car racing-- often multiple versions of these too). I don't know why Canadians aren't largely that way as well.

The football quality in the CFL is better than NCAA and it's a unique game-- and our game. Nobody else plays the way we do. Why not embrace that rather than compare it as inferior to the NFL? Makes no sense to me.

Its bigger than football. Its the classic worship of anything American vs Canadian content. From films to books to music etc.

Not sure why and I don't subscribe to it but its there.

Take the U of A Golden Bears. A hockey team that in their plateau years can compete with NCAA squads and many of whom stopped wanting to play the Golden Bears in friendlies. Yet 3K maximum attendance at Clare drake and not always full and NCAA clubs draw in the several thousands. Yet Golden Bears offer among consistently the best played hockey found among Universities but only to a select audience.

Lol that top Canadian artists from Neil Young to Rush always have to break first in the States before getting huge acceptance here. Tragically Hip being one of the rare exceptions to this.

But overall its as if the US informs us whats good, and what isn't.

 

[Gord]

what's the eskimo record since the last cup win?
tough from being the best team in the league my entire life, (and the classiest team)
to being mostly a cellar dwelling embarrassment in an 8 team league.

at least with the Oilers, we had an extra 12 or so years to get used to it.

 

[Replacement*]

It is a couple of things for me:

- 9 teams. I know a lot of junior hockey leagues that have more teams and are therefore more compelling to follow.

- Rules: A lot of people like them, but they seem so bush-league to me.

- Quality: The CFLs best players would be among the NFLs worst.

I've been to college football games. I sincerely doubt a Grey Cup between Saskatchewan and (some other team) could match the atmosphere for a good college football game live honestly.

To me watching the CFL is like watching the AHL or ECHL instead of the ECHL.

I don't disagree with much of this but not sure why something like NFL Europe was considered bigger than the CFL. The bolded would apply with that as well. The reality was any product stamped with "NFL" branding was bigger just because.

As far as quality argument though its kind of hard to think that the Edmonton Eskimos, a club that had Warren Moon for several years is such a bust for talent. It isn't always as simple as that. Many great players, particularly black players (and coaches) got their pro chances here when things weren't so enlightened across the border.

Listen to Warren Moon talk about that sometime.

Nor did I watch Gizmo Williams career here and think "wow what an amateur"

I think people that watch the CFL appreciate that theres good talent in it and well worth watching. Its a different brand of game. I wouldn't not watch Australian Rules football just because their not NFL and the players don't make 10M bucks. Doesn't mean they're not any good.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Its bigger than football. Its the classic worship of anything American vs Canadian content. From films to books to music etc.

Not sure why and I don't subscribe to it but its there.

Take the U of A Golden Bears. A hockey team that in their plateau years can compete with NCAA squads and many of whom stopped wanting to play the Golden Bears in friendlies. Yet 3K maximum attendance at Clare drake and not always full and NCAA clubs draw in the several thousands. Yet Golden Bears offer among consistently the best played hockey found among Universities but only to a select audience.

Lol that top Canadian artists from Neil Young to Rush always have to break first in the States before getting huge acceptance here. Tragically Hip being one of the rare exceptions to this.

But overall its as if the US informs us whats good, and what isn't.

Having attended both the U of A and a Big-10 school I can tell you the difference in sporting event attendance has less to do with team success and is more related to the alumni culture. Big American schools specifically foster a "come cheer as one of us" atmosphere around their major Div-1 sports teams because it pays off in spades come time for alumni donations. The current students are encouraged to continue the proud tradition of the university and people identify with what school they attended. In Canada, one rarely has such sport focused marketing directed towards both the current students and alumni.

 

[Mr Forever]

Having attended both the U of A and a Big-10 school I can tell you the difference in sporting event attendance has less to do with team success and is more related to the alumni culture. Big American schools specifically foster a "come cheer as one of us" atmosphere around their major Div-1 sports teams because it pays off in spades come time for alumni donations. The current students are encouraged to continue the proud tradition of the university and people identify with what school they attended. In Canada, one rarely has such sport focused marketing directed towards both the current students and alumni.

Plus the U of A is a major commuter school, where a good majority of the students either live at home, or live in an apartment off campus. A school with more of a campus resident lifestyle would likely generate more of an interest in campus sports.

 

[doulos]

Can we please discuss the Edmonton Swim Club's record as well? LOL. This whole thread is asinine.

 

[Beerfish]

Some seriously specious reasoning here.

For starters how is an 8 team league where a ridiculously high 75% of the teams make the playoffs even remotely congruent to a league of 30 teams where 53% of the teams make the playoffs?

Where did he even talk about the playoffs in his original post? If it's there I don't see it.

 

[Beerfish]

Why are we not including the Edmonton Rush since we're discussing non-Oiler fringe sports like the CFL? Flat out horrible reasoning across the board.

Idiotic post. I'll take the mod warning or penalty points on this one.

 

[Replacement*]

what's the eskimo record since the last cup win?
tough from being the best team in the league my entire life, (and the classiest team)
to being mostly a cellar dwelling embarrassment in an 8 team league.

at least with the Oilers, we had an extra 12 or so years to get used to it.

I don't see this as a positive Gord. To me that's the frustrating thing with the Oilers is how long they've been hopeless.

I do get your first point and perhaps we were spoiled with the Esks. The results seems to point to that as well. For instance this is the Esks home record since 1972;

278W 127L

Heres the home record between 72 and 2005;

236W 90L

So yeah, we we're getting spoiled real good by the Esks as fans but overall I appreciate that rather than being spoiled by it. If anything I've learned to associate the Esks brand with good times. The Oilers? Well, its been awhile.

As far as your question this is the Esks record since 2005;

70W -92L (not so good but already changing. So esks had half a dozen bad years in amidst a sea of plenty.)



Home during same span;

42W 37L No great shakes but considering this is the worst time of the franchise and still putting up winners at home unlike the Oilers