A recap of the Jackets History

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I just don’t get the ragging on ownership because they are not in the public eye. I seriously doubt we want an owner like Jerry Jones for this team.

They just need to get the right people in place and let them do their job. I get that they can be a little slow to react at times but I also don’t want them making rash decisions. If we get this GM hire right it could be a game changer. I just hope JD is providing the right guidance.

 

[Napoli]

No, it's not. That's the fundamental point I've been working to make here: sometimes there is no villain. Folks are pointing to ownership becuase that's the last remaining original link in the chain left to potentially blame - given the desired premise of "it's always been terrible all along and there is exactly one (1) fundamental thing that needs fixing to make it better" - and that's all the evidence anyone has.

This isn't going to be solved by Finding The Right Owner and then having everything good happen from there, and so the motivated reasoning that follows from that and leads to insisting that JP Mac is therefore a bad owner is unnecessary, untruthful, unhelpful, and antiethical.


EDIT: In the IT world, there's a concept refered to as "cargo cult programming". It's attempting to make a program work not by understanding what your code actually is going to do, but by finding snippets and examples that look like they might accomplish what you're after, blindly including them, and hoping for the desired result. Sometimes you do get what you want (if you're lucky), but frequently all you end up with is a confused mess. I submit that this notion of "well, we've replaced everyone else but the owner, so now we have to replace the owner" is a prime example of proposed cargo cult franchise management.

Youre welcome to this line of thought except there's truly no evidence to support it. In fact, all evidence points that ownership isnt good at hiring the right people. The franchise has changed so many directions it's hard to count.

People should look at ownership, specifically who they're hiring and ask why they haven't been successful. But somehow we're not supposed to do that because you simply claim that "there is no villian"! Well if you say so, it must be true!

Seriously, the culture has been questioned for 2+ decades now and we're going to claim ownership isnt at fault?

Why are they allowing someone who has already failed (JD), to pick a new GM?

The incompetence is in front of everyone but I guess not everyone wants to see it.

And yes, the one constant is ownership and no matter one off nonsensical claims people conjure up will change that. They deserve criticism. I don't even know how this is controversial.

 

[Viqsi]

Youre welcome to this line of thought except there's truly no evidence to support it.

You and others are advancing the theory that the ownership itself is incompetent in the absence of evidence, and that places the burden of proof on y'all. And it's going to be difficult to prove, especially given that they've actually gone out and sought advice from respected hockey minds and the NHL - that's how we ended up with Hitchcock, and eventually Davidson as well. They're seeking advice and paying attention to it, and yet somehow we're to be expected to believe that that's somehow a bad thing. It's well established that there are two kinds of sports ownership in this world - those that back off and let other, actually trained competent folks handle it, and folks who meddle and ruin franchises. We've got the preferable first kind - even if we haven't gotten folks sufficiently competent to delegate to - and y'all are wanting to go with a meddler? What the actual f***?

Blaming ownership is a dodge; it's an attempt to distract from the fact that those things that have gone wrong for the Jackets are multifaceted and nuanced in nature with no easy answer, and in particular it can't be solved just by pointing the finger at one guy and going "that's the one to blame, remove them and Everything Will Be Fine." That's not reasoned analysis; that's desperately headhunting so as to feel slightly better about Doing Something that feels productive regardless of whether or not it actually is.

 

[Napoli]

You and others are advancing the theory that the ownership itself is incompetent in the absence of evidence, and that places the burden of proof on y'all. And it's going to be difficult to prove, especially given that they've actually gone out and sought advice from respected hockey minds and the NHL - that's how we ended up with Hitchcock, and eventually Davidson as well. They're seeking advice and paying attention to it, and yet somehow we're to be expected to believe that that's somehow a bad thing. It's well established that there are two kinds of sports ownership in this world - those that back off and let other, actually trained competent folks handle it, and folks who meddle and ruin franchises. We've got the preferable first kind - even if we haven't gotten folks sufficiently competent to delegate to - and y'all are wanting to go with a meddler? What the actual f***?

Blaming ownership is a dodge; it's an attempt to distract from the fact that those things that have gone wrong for the Jackets are multifaceted and nuanced in nature with no easy answer, and in particular it can't be solved just by pointing the finger at one guy and going "that's the one to blame, remove them and Everything Will Be Fine." That's not reasoned analysis; that's desperately headhunting so as to feel slightly better about Doing Something that feels productive regardless of whether or not it actually is.

Of course it's multi faceted and nuanced, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. The issue is the current decision makers have failed miserably and I dont have hope that they will suddenly figure it out.

We could get into the details on how each different GM failed and who was better than who and all that. Whether Ownership has picked better GMs over time or not etc etc. That doesn't really seem productive honestly. We already know they don't have a clear direction. MAYBE they're going to get it right this time? Keeping JD on to make this upcoming decision has me seriously doubting it.

You're welcome to keep the faith in ownership, I don't think they're bad people, just not good at picking the right people. Making this sound like the doubters are calling out ownership as some type of witch hunt, is pretty ridiculous imo. Not everything would change with new ownership, hell it could get worse, but let's not pretend they've done a good job and we should all be happy.

 

[Viqsi]

You're welcome to keep the faith in ownership, I don't think they're bad people, just not good at picking the right people.

You are continuing to fail to recognize that they were not the ones who've made several of the picks. They've recognized their own lack of expertise and sought out advice from other skilled individuals and the League as a whole to rectify that. And as a result we have had the people that we've had.

The only pick ownership has made that was unequivocably bad and 100% on them was Doug MacLean. If you think JD was a bad pick, for example, your beef is with the National Hockey League.

Making this sound like the doubters are calling out ownership as some type of witch hunt, is pretty ridiculous imo.

It is absolutely, unquestionably a witch hunt, and attempts to pretend otherwise are borderline offensively disgusting.

 

[Napoli]

You are continuing to fail to recognize that they were not the ones who've made several of the picks. They've recognized their own lack of expertise and sought out advice from other skilled individuals and the League as a whole to rectify that. And as a result we have had the people that we've had.

The only pick ownership has made that was unequivocably bad and 100% on them was Doug MacLean. If you think JD was a bad pick, for example, your beef is with the National Hockey League.

It is absolutely, unquestionably a witch hunt, and attempts to pretend otherwise are borderline offensively disgusting.

What are you even talking about? I'm talking about choosing GMs and President of Hockey Operations. Do you not think they're responsible for that? Having other individuals choose for them absolves them from responsibility?

 

[Viqsi]

What are you even talking about? Draft picks? I'm talking about choosing GMs and President of Hockey Operations. Do you not think they're responsible for that?

Yes, I am in fact talking about picking head coaches and POHOPs. John Davidson was famously hired on the advice of the National Hockey League. So was Ken Hitchcock, for that matter. I believe Howson was also an outside consult hire but I'm not as certain there. Other decisions folks have taken issue with - such as hiring Kekalainen - have followed from those.

And I frankly don't think y'all really get just how serious what y'all are calling for is. Changing ownership resulting in an improved team is extraordinarily low probability; the far more probable outcome of a forced ownership change would be the literal end of major professional hockey in Central Ohio in our collective lifetimes. It's everything that makes forced tanking a terrible idea only magified to an even more extreme degree.

 

[Napoli]

Yes, I am in fact talking about picking head coaches and POHOPs. John Davidson was famously hired on the advice of the National Hockey League. So was Ken Hitchcock, for that matter. I believe Howson was also an outside consult hire but I'm not as certain there. Other decisions folks have taken issue with - such as hiring Kekalainen - have followed from those.

I think this sums it up nicely actually. Ownership doesn't know hockey so they have other people choose for them. Are they not responsible for who they choose? Or in this case, who other people choose for them? Not knowing your business and then having other people mess it up for you is a failed plan from the start.

There are too many variables that need to go right.

 

[Viqsi]

I think this sums it up nicely actually. Ownership doesn't know hockey so they have other people choose for them. Are they not responsible for who they choose? Or in this case, who other people choose for them? Not knowing your business and then having other people mess it up for you is a failed plan from the start.

There are too many variables that need to go right.

If you're expecting to somehow magically acquire an ownership group that knows hockey that well, you're believing in unicorns even more than those folks who think a 1st overall pick will be the end to all our on-ice woes. Most ownership groups out there don't have the single slightest f***ing clue about how to run a hockey team or how hockey works. They're just fortunate enough to get the right people. CBJ ownership has sought advice in finding the right people, and have had at best decidedly mixed success. That is not a condemnation of ownership; it's a reflection of just how difficult that process actually is. And in failing to recognize that, y'all are toying with a literal existential threat as though it's no big deal.

I suspect some of y'all are looking at the Crew and thinking "gosh, I want that for the Jackets" without realizing just how close to eternal damnation the team got. The Crew had a legacy of being a successful established team with a vibrant supporter's culture to lean on and attract interest. The Blue Jackets do not have that legacy. That is not an affordable risk.

 

[Napoli]

If you're expecting to somehow magically acquire an ownership group that knows hockey that well, you're believing in unicorns even more than those folks who think a 1st overall pick will be the end to all our on-ice woes. Most ownership groups out there don't have the single slightest f***ing clue about how to run a hockey team or how hockey works. They're just fortunate enough to get the right people. CBJ ownership has sought advice in finding the right people, and have had at best decidedly mixed success. That is not a condemnation of ownership; it's a reflection of just how difficult that process actually is. And in failing to recognize that, y'all are toying with a literal existential threat as though it's no big deal.

All we have are results, no one truly knows what's going on. I'm not impressed with their attempts and saying well it's just really difficult, doesn't it excuse it. You can have your stance and further support it by saying hockey in Columbus would fold otherwise but honestly, it just feels like settling for mediocrity. Truthfully, it's hard to call what this franchise has experienced so far simply "mediocre".

 

[Viqsi]

You can have your stance and further support it by saying hockey in Columbus would fold otherwise but honestly, it just feels like settling for mediocrity.

Which would you prefer: hockey or no hockey?

Because local ownership is a blessing that has kept us from having to face that existential question for nearly the entirety of our existence. Take that away and we instantly become the second most existentially vulnerable team in the League bar Arizona at a time when plenty of potential owners for cities all around the country are looking interested in the NHL but balking at the near-billion-dollar expansion fee. Being angry at them because the League gave advice that led to suboptimal results is less cutting your nose off to spite your face and more cutting off your head to spite your body.

I don't like the results either. But trying to force out the McConnells is the opposite of a sane solution. There are no other viable local candidates.

 

[Napoli]

Which would you prefer: hockey or no hockey?

Because local ownership is a blessing that has kept us from having to face that existential question for nearly the entirety of our existence. Take that away and we instantly become the second most existentially vulnerable team in the League bar Arizona at a time when plenty of potential owners for cities all around the country are looking interested in the NHL but balking at the near-billion-dollar expansion fee. Being angry at them because the League gave advice that led to suboptimal results is less cutting your nose off to spite your face and more cutting off your head to spite your body.

I don't like the results either. But trying to force out the McConnells is the opposite of a sane solution. There are no other viable local candidates.

I realize it's not going to happen and would probably end hockey in Columbus. Stuck between a rock and hard place.

I'd settle for Priest to be gone in the short term, he should not have input picking hockey people at this point. One less buffoon in the bunch if you will.

 

[majormajor]

Youre welcome to this line of thought except there's truly no evidence to support it. In fact, all evidence points that ownership isnt good at hiring the right people.

Who is the last person our ownership hired on the hockey side?

John Davidson twelve years ago?

The guy who has been Team President of St. Louis and more recently the New York Rangers? So then are they stupid too and need to fire their owners?

"All the evidence" would imply that there is something odd about the Howson and Hitch and JD hires, that there was some spectacular incompetence with all of these people. There really hasn't been since Maclean, who was hired more than a quarter century ago.

"All the evidence", in fact, is pretty mixed in the last two regimes we've had.

 

[Viqsi]

I realize it's not going to happen and would probably end hockey in Columbus. Stuck between a rock and hard place.

I'd settle for Priest to be gone in the short term, he should not have input picking hockey people at this point. One less buffoon in the bunch if you will.

I frankly think his input is minimal and limited to evaluating business management credibility and that JD is handling anything about inquiry into hockey management. I know that for some folks here that's not much better as they've also lost all faith in JD, but, well, we're working with what we have.

 

[Napoli]

Who is the last person our ownership hired on the hockey side?

John Davidson twelve years ago?

The guy who has been Team President of St. Louis and more recently the New York Rangers? So then are they stupid too and need to fire their owners?

"All the evidence" would imply that there is something odd about the Howson and Hitch and JD hires, that there was some spectacular incompetence with all of these people. There really hasn't been since Maclean, who was hired more than a quarter century ago.

"All the evidence", in fact, is pretty mixed in the last two regimes we've had.

Did you notice how quickly New York fired JD when they believed it was going south? Some of that same urgency would be welcomed from this ownership.

Results and desire to build a winning culture and not just participate in regular seasons mean something.

 

[majormajor]

Did you notice how quickly New York fired JD when they believed it was going south? Some of that same urgency would be welcomed from this ownership.

Let me tell you what I heard from Rangers fans at the time. Dolan is the Knicks and Rangers owner who is widely viewed in the NBA as incompetent for his constant meddling with the Knicks. You can look that up. When Tom Wilson went total caveman on the Rangers (Panarin incident), Dolan immediately demanded that GM Gorton be fired for building a soft team. And since JD thought that was rash and wouldn't do it, they both got promptly canned. That implies it would still be JD's job if he was willing to do what Dolan said.

So, no, that Dolan type "urgency" would not be welcomed here.

 

[Indy18]

Let me tell you what I heard from Rangers fans at the time. Dolan is the Knicks and Rangers owner who is widely viewed in the NBA as incompetent for his constant meddling with the Knicks. You can look that up. When Tom Wilson went total caveman on the Rangers (Panarin incident), Dolan immediately demanded that GM Gorton be fired for building a soft team. And since JD thought that was rash and wouldn't do it, they both got promptly canned. That implies it would still be JD's job if he was willing to do what Dolan said.

So, no, that Dolan type "urgency" would not be welcomed here.

Actually...there are MANY people who WANT this style of leadership. I have seen so many people begging for Jimmy Haslam...completely no meme...to save them from the McConnels because at least he can build a winner like he did with the Crew. You wanna know why the Crew won? Its because Haslam was hands off and just wrote the checks...the Browns on the other hand....yeah...Halsen pretty much forced his FO to pay an ungodly amount of money for a player who was extremely damaged goods. was suspended for his actions, caused a massive PR issue on the team where they had to spend extra money to push out a new media campaign to mitigate the signing, gave up 3 years of 1st round draft picks with an offense that was built around the run and reset the entire QB payout market for a team that's only saving grace is its extremely powerful defense which got them to the playoffs but with no offense got CRUSHED there. They want that owner who will go big and will be like Vegas to sacrifice the entire future for a chance now. Haslam is NOTORIUS for constantly changing GMs/direction which is why they can never figure out an identity or let the GM cook to see if the process will work. If it wasn't for the Panthers (or even Arizona I forgot how cheap they are by NFL standards) Haslam would probably be the worst owner in the NFL right now and easily part of the top 10 in professional sports along side Dolan.

 

[Viqsi]

Actually...there are MANY people who WANT this style of leadership. I have seen so many people begging for Jimmy Haslam...completely no meme...to save them from the McConnels because at least he can build a winner like he did with the Crew. You wanna know why the Crew won? Its because Haslam was hands off and just wrote the checks...the Browns on the other hand....yeah...Halsen pretty much forced his FO to pay an ungodly amount of money for a player who was extremely damaged goods. was suspended for his actions, caused a massive PR issue on the team where they had to spend extra money to push out a new media campaign to mitigate the signing, gave up 3 years of 1st round draft picks with an offense that was built around the run and reset the entire QB payout market for a team that's only saving grace is its extremely powerful defense which got them to the playoffs but with no offense got CRUSHED there. They want that owner who will go big and will be like Vegas to sacrifice the entire future for a chance now. Haslam is NOTORIUS for constantly changing GMs/direction which is why they can never figure out an identity or let the GM cook to see if the process will work. If it wasn't for the Panthers (or even Arizona I forgot how cheap they are by NFL standards) Haslam would probably be the worst owner in the NFL right now and easily part of the top 10 in professional sports along side Dolan.

The special added bonus punchline is that Jimmy has almost nothing to do with the Crew. Ownership duties and decision-making and the like are pretty much entirely left to Dee (his wife) and Dr. Pete.

 

[EspenK]

Let me tell you what I heard from Rangers fans at the time. Dolan is the Knicks and Rangers owner who is widely viewed in the NBA as incompetent for his constant meddling with the Knicks. You can look that up. When Tom Wilson went total caveman on the Rangers (Panarin incident), Dolan immediately demanded that GM Gorton be fired for building a soft team. And since JD thought that was rash and wouldn't do it, they both got promptly canned. That implies it would still be JD's job if he was willing to do what Dolan said.

So, no, that Dolan type "urgency" would not be welcomed here.

Although the Rangers are serious contenders for the Presidents Cup this season. There is that.

 

[majormajor]

Although the Rangers are serious contenders for the Presidents Cup this season. There is that.

Yes it would have looked much better on JD's resume if he fired Gorton as Dolan requested and stayed in New York.

The Rangers moves starting after Drury took over in 2021 are certainly not why they're a strong team now. Just looking at the trade history:

They disastrously gave away Buchnevich for Blais and a 2nd, and then gave Blais away when he didn't work.

They brought in Barclay Goodrow and Ryan Reaves, neither worked. They're still trying to get Goodrow off the books.

Then last year's big deadline splurge where they got Kane and Tarasenko looks bad because they slowed down an already slow team.

 

[Napoli]

Let me tell you what I heard from Rangers fans at the time. Dolan is the Knicks and Rangers owner who is widely viewed in the NBA as incompetent for his constant meddling with the Knicks. You can look that up. When Tom Wilson went total caveman on the Rangers (Panarin incident), Dolan immediately demanded that GM Gorton be fired for building a soft team. And since JD thought that was rash and wouldn't do it, they both got promptly canned. That implies it would still be JD's job if he was willing to do what Dolan said.

So, no, that Dolan type "urgency" would not be welcomed here.

You're missing the point.

12+ years of purgatory is the other end of that spectrum. Neither is optimal.

I really dont think one needs expert hindsight to realize JD and Jarmo should have been let go earlier than they were. Or in JD's case just not at all. Yet here we are..

 

[squashmaple]

You're missing the point.

12+ years of purgatory is the other end of that spectrum. Neither is optimal.

I really dont think one needs expert hindsight to realize JD and Jarmo should have been let go earlier than they were. Or in JD's case just not at all. Yet here we are..

Cool. You made your point. It just happens to be meaningless.

You just want to complain, and that’s fine. But do you realize that your whole argument boils down to “what we have is bad, the other thing is bad, the middle is bad. Everything is always bad!” And that’s no argument at all.

Like I said, complaining about ownership is tilting at windmills. We have invented things that might happen to get mad about, when in reality ownership is just… there and can’t be changed. There are so many other things to argue about than that.

(editing for some grammatical clarity)

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Then last year's big deadline splurge where they got Kane and Tarasenko looks bad because they slowed down an already slow team.

I have no facts to base this on but those sound like heavily Dolan influenced moves as well.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

In 17 years as an NHL team president, JDs teams have won ONE playoff series. His teams have qualified for the playoffs 6 out of 17 years (including a Covid qualifying round). Virtually anyone on this board if given the opportunity to be an NHL team prez for 17 years would have done better-and I'm being serious.

His apologists and the apologists for the Columbus ownership which re-hired him after he quit on the team really need to get a grip on reality. How anyone can view this ownership as anything but an abysmal failure based on the past 20+ years is simply astounding.

That anyone feels any degree of confidence in JDs ability to pick the best possible GM available boggles the mind.

 

[Viqsi]

In 17 years as an NHL team president, JDs teams have won ONE playoff series. His teams have qualified for the playoffs 6 out of 17 years (including a Covid qualifying round). Virtually anyone on this board if given the opportunity to be an NHL team prez for 17 years would have done better-and I'm being serious.

His apologists and the apologists for the Columbus ownership which re-hired him after he quit on the team really need to get a grip on reality. How anyone can view this ownership as anything but an abysmal failure based on the past 20+ years is simply astounding.

That anyone feels any degree of confidence in JDs ability to pick the best possible GM available boggles the mind.

Some of us are a litlte more invested in this being a Central Ohio hockey team.