A hidden benefit to the Red Wings' slow prospect development

[uvgt2bkdnme]

I'm usually one of those people who clamors for young players at least to get a chance. But there's a hidden benefit to the slow development that Ken Holland's been able to exploit the last two trade deadlines.

http://alongtheboards.com/2015/03/hidden-benefit-detroit-red-wings-way/

Click to read more...

 

[BinCookin]

I am not really sure what point you are getting at in the article.

Is it that we know which prospects to keep because we have more time to look at them? If that is true, why would anyone want our "cast off" players?

If you are saying our slow development allows mediocre prospects (like those traded) for cole to improve enough to gain value to be used to get Cole.... I am not sure. The only GM in the league who knows those 2 names is Nill because he helped draft them. They are so low on our depth chart, that it is hard to imagine any other GM thinking they have any value.

I guess I don't really get the point you are making with the article.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

we dont put your young guys on the 1st line as soon as their drafted and actually let them develop

 

[ricky0034]

The Red Wings have a much better idea which players will be NHL contributors by keeping them buried and out of the NHL?

 

[TheOtherOne]

It does say "hidden benefit"... perhaps the benefit in question is hidden even from the author?

 

[tfong]

I think the hidden benefit is that they have inflated AHL stats that leads some scouts to believe when they see them that they are better than they really are.

 

[JPE123]

I think part of it is having a young guy come in not fully prepared and having his confidence destroyed by struggling in the NHL. Most of these guys are coming from standout roles in other settings, juniors, college, other leagues and it can be pretty humbling going from hero to zero in a years time.

 

[uvgt2bkdnme]

I am not really sure what point you are getting at in the article.

Is it that we know which prospects to keep because we have more time to look at them? If that is true, why would anyone want our "cast off" players?

You'll have to ask Nashville and Dallas, who traded away players that had some pretty good value in Legwand and Cole for "cast off" prospects. Jarnkrok was pretty highly valued at the time of the trade, and his nine points in 12 games made that trade look even worse for Detroit. Legwand didn't work out, but 40 points in 61 games with Nashville before coming to Detroit wasn't a sign of a nothing player.

If you are saying our slow development allows mediocre prospects (like those traded) for cole to improve enough to gain value to be used to get Cole.... I am not sure. The only GM in the league who knows those 2 names is Nill because he helped draft them. They are so low on our depth chart, that it is hard to imagine any other GM thinking they have any value.

I'll accept that the sample size of trades is incredibly small, and it may be that only Jim Nill was willing to take a chance on Backman and Janmark. More or less, "we know which prospect to keep because we have more time to look at them" is the point.

 

[BinCookin]

My List of Benefits for Detroits System of Development:

Obvious Benefits
1) Players are not saddled with high pressure by being thrown into the NHL too quickly. They also avoid the media this way (problems for teams like Toronto).
2) Players are taught how to play the same style of game in the AHL as the Red wings use in the NHL. Style of play (systems). This can sometimes be a major factor in transitioning from 1 league to another or 1 team to another.
3) The team does not use inexperienced rookies too often, thus delaying their movement to UFA, thus keeping players cost controlled longer. --This could be seen as a negative by players if they feel they are being held back on purpose. (no evidence for this yet, except 1/2 season of Nyquist)
4) Rookies in Detroit come in ready to play, so there is less of a learning curve. The team stays competitive.
5) Player confidence can thrive under this system because players learn to master each league before moving onto the next (NCAA-->AHL-->NHL OR OHL-->AHL-->NHL). Once you dominate one league you KNOW you belong in the next league. This is a prime reason for our players to feel confident they are at the right level. I.E. they don't have to worry about whether or not they can hack the NHL, because they know they can dominate the AHL.
Edit: Example: Pulkkinen: No one knows what he will be at the NHL level. But we all know now, and HE must know, that he has mastered the AHL level, and is thus "ready" for the NHL. So he never has to worry himself. He just has to keep improving and we will see if he is a 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th liner at the NHL.

Hidden Benefits
1) Due to Holland's patience with prospects, odds are we very rarely trade any away too early and thus never make a mistake in trading the wrong prospect before we know their game well. Correspondingly this is a negative as we "use up" all of our prospects "potential". As in, by the time we realize we want to cut bait with a prospect... he is likely 22-25, and no one else will want him either. So we patiently test all our prospects, but we cant trade any AFTER making decisions on them.

 

[BinCookin]

You'll have to ask Nashville and Dallas, who traded away players that had some pretty good value in Legwand and Cole for "cast off" prospects. Jarnkrok was pretty highly valued at the time of the trade, and his nine points in 12 games made that trade look even worse for Detroit. Legwand didn't work out, but 40 points in 61 games with Nashville before coming to Detroit wasn't a sign of a nothing player.



I'll accept that the sample size of trades is incredibly small, and it may be that only Jim Nill was willing to take a chance on Backman and Janmark. More or less, "we know which prospect to keep because we have more time to look at them" is the point.

Cool, just wrote that last point too in my make shift list

 

[Huddy*]

I believe, just an opinion, that the "hidden effect" (wrong term used by author) is that the Red Wings are better at developing players than most teams, which we already know, given their track record, no surprise there. However, I do believe the author was trying to state, how the Wings can take mid/low level prospects and turn them over to other teams, such as Nashville and Dallas. They do so without expending top draft pics and prospects in the process, such as other teams who don't have the "prospect depth" the Red Wings have, and have to expend 1st/2nd rd pics + a top tier prospect to get better. Isn't that the whole idea to successful drafting/development ??

Red Wings were pretty fortunate to come away this year without giving up what was wanted for say Dion Phaneuf, and stole Zid for nothing really, and based off the Calle Jarnkrok trade, so far, Holland looks good. We shall see how he did this year by giving up Mattias Backman and Mattas Janmark. Don't like the 2nd given up, but whatever, the Wings have enough to hold onto for a while in terms of talent.

 

[Mijatovic]

Our trades this year will look bad if we make the ECF and lose :p

 

[sean3250]

Our trades this year will look bad if we make the ECF and lose :p

No way this team makes it to the ECF.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

No way this team makes it to the ECF.

why?

Montreal isnt that great at all... If U find a good spot to score on Price (hardest part) The loss is yours...


Tampa? Bishop has no playoff experience


we own the metro....

Boston is the only tough team to get there.. if they make it.

 

[ap3x]

We've as good a chance as anybody in the East. Not happy about our record against division rivals. But still, come playoff time, I like our changes. Cause I'm going all Holland on that one: I like our team. The team is capable of going deep. If they will? I don't know. But no reason to be pessimistic like that before it even started.

 

[DanZ]

No way this team makes it to the ECF.

You obviously don't know the current state of the Eastern Conference. It's a crapshoot. Every team is solid, but every team has flaws. Honestly, anything from getting booted in the first round to making the Cup finals wouldn't surprise me. I don't know what to expect.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

My List of Benefits for Detroits System of Development:

Obvious Benefits
1) Players are not saddled with high pressure by being thrown into the NHL too quickly. They also avoid the media this way (problems for teams like Toronto).
2) Players are taught how to play the same style of game in the AHL as the Red wings use in the NHL. Style of play (systems). This can sometimes be a major factor in transitioning from 1 league to another or 1 team to another.
3) The team does not use inexperienced rookies too often, thus delaying their movement to UFA, thus keeping players cost controlled longer. --This could be seen as a negative by players if they feel they are being held back on purpose. (no evidence for this yet, except 1/2 season of Nyquist)
4) Rookies in Detroit come in ready to play, so there is less of a learning curve. The team stays competitive.
5) Player confidence can thrive under this system because players learn to master each league before moving onto the next (NCAA-->AHL-->NHL OR OHL-->AHL-->NHL). Once you dominate one league you KNOW you belong in the next league. This is a prime reason for our players to feel confident they are at the right level. I.E. they don't have to worry about whether or not they can hack the NHL, because they know they can dominate the AHL.
Edit: Example: Pulkkinen: No one knows what he will be at the NHL level. But we all know now, and HE must know, that he has mastered the AHL level, and is thus "ready" for the NHL. So he never has to worry himself. He just has to keep improving and we will see if he is a 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th liner at the NHL.

Hidden Benefits
1) Due to Holland's patience with prospects, odds are we very rarely trade any away too early and thus never make a mistake in trading the wrong prospect before we know their game well. Correspondingly this is a negative as we "use up" all of our prospects "potential". As in, by the time we realize we want to cut bait with a prospect... he is likely 22-25, and no one else will want him either. So we patiently test all our prospects, but we cant trade any AFTER making decisions on them.

I would add to your first point that by being up front and steadfast with his approach, Holland manages the expectations of the media and takes additional short-term pressure off of the prospects.

 

[Retire91]

Red wings have a very good system that works for them. Making the playoffs each year Wings always pick in the areas where players have some kind of development needs even when they are late first rounders. In some cases they are transitioing European prospects to the north american game. I can understand the long development curve in these cases. The handling of Nyquist was really questionable but I can see why the system works the way it does. As a fan I get tired of seeing a constant influx of 36-41 year old veterans filling gaps when I feel there are opportunities for NHL development of the kids but its hard to argue with the teams success.

Holland has been dishing out a lot of second and third rounders to keep this train of veternas coming and I really wish he wouldn't. Wings are great at drafting and I just think they rely too much on the reach picks in later rounds even though its worked out great for them.

Personally I would like to see a slant more towards more younger kids earlier but this season has been so refreshing from last season. Finally getting looks at this next generation even though its a season or two later than it needed to be.