Salary Cap: a 'good' problem to have

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

WARNING!!!

dreging up an old argument here and wondering if people see my point yet... honestly, this will become a super red hot toxic disaster within the next year or so, so anyone that hates this argument should buckle down their hatches.

I said a couple years ago Toronto was headed to a lot of trouble. it pretty much started with the draisdailt contract. some people told me its all about % of the cap but they are short sighted. the NHL has arbitration and depth wins championships. as you overpay 2nd term contracts and give them UFA MONEY before UFA you completely kill the idea of 'building through the draft'

the nhl wanted parity... they got it. the nhl bracket challenge was a joke this year because NO ONE knows what team is better anymore. flip a coin... call a penalty... any team can beat any team. set a regular season record for wins in a season and go out 4 straight to a team that wasnt even in a playoff spot at game 81

we are all told... build through the draft... get some good young players and you can keep them until they are 27 and have a chance to win. but now we got Toronto seeing they dont have a chance to win yet and now facing a world of cap hurt

Toronto can AFFORD TO PAY ANYTHING NECESSARY TO KEEP THEIR TEAM TOGETHER AND FIX IT except the league has a cap. how is hockeys most important market going to accept that this summer? the owners of the leafs are Canadas 2 largest broadcasters... how will they handle a boycott if their fans turn on them?

am I overreacting... im sure you will say so... and you and you and you will say so too. I wonder how many of us will see the problem now though?

what does torontos cap look like next year?

Tavares
Matthews
Marner
will be getting over 33 million between them... one was an ufa. sure these are 3 very good players... id rate each in the top 30. they havent won a thing. two are kids. its debatable at this point if they will ever win a thing.

nylander was able to argue that hes at least half as good as these guys... he got himself 7 mill because thats how it works. you overpay your top guys and everyone is drawn like a magnet... we are up to 40 million now

kadri and riley signed before things went insane... lucky for the leafs there... and throw Anderson in as a lucky break too...7 guys making 55 million dollars...

try to afford your depth now... remember depth wins

muzzin and Zaitsev as your 2 and 3 dmen… is that a good problem to have? it takes us to 63 million with 9 guys signed

when Zach hyman and connor brown signed I had to post how horrible their deals were 4.3 for 1 guy that might be a decent player and 1 that was a bottom forward. neither was an ufa. what does that do to kapanen and johanssons ask? MINIMUM 10 mill for this group of 4

13 guys signed... 73 mill... and trust me im estimatings very low

did these 13 guys have any success this year... or last?

gardiner is history... you got 10 mill MAX to sign 10 guys
oh did I forget to mention marleau?

thats right hes 6PLUS million

you got 4 millMAX to sign 9 guys

so gardiner is gone...
kapanen/Johansson dont have 5 mill to get them signed UNLESS other guys are gone
marner can be offer sheeted and they wont be able to match
theres no money to bring ron hainsey back

is it really a good problem to have?

Winnipeg, Calgary are in rather similar situations... Edmonton is probably in a worst one

Canada is a MAJOR source of revenue for the small/poor us markets to revenue share.

there isnt really a fix to this problem im bringing attention to. if there was, id suggest it. im not sure if talking about it will help or not. yesterday Toronto just got beat again. this week so did Calgary and Winnipeg. johnny hockey, sean Monahan, the tkchuck kid, laine, schiefield, trouba and the boys in hog town... arguable nearly a dozen of the top under 25 kids in the league sent home...

this myth about building through the draft is losing its credibility when you see McDavid becoming a golf pro every may... Eichel and Dahlen with no playoff games... kucherov missing the playoffs a couple years ago going home in round 1 this year...

will it be healthy for hockey that weak sisters like Columbus, Carolina, Colorado, dallas were allow to be parity and scratch into the second round? I dont know... do they pay the bills? will they suddenly get a huge influx of fans for having a good playoff run?

they told me Toronto had a good problem. I said they didnt have enough cap room to build depth and were overpaying their kids before they won anything. I said overpaid kids would be hard to trade. I said the team was flawed and now it was too expensive to fix. I said their fans would revolt when it got exposed.

you can drink the poison koolaid for only so long.

I normally wouldnt care... but we got a cba coming. everyone and their horse told me there was no labour issues to cause a problem. Houston, I think we got a problem now

sorry to those who hate the wall of text... hope you did yourself a favor and didnt read this ramble. I want to get out in front of this so I can necro this thread in a couple years and say see I told you so. so often, it frustrates me when they tell me I never said that.

ok... so I have said that now
your turn if you want to argue it
or jump in and get counted in the vote
in the meantime im writing the day after boston advances... so got to say...
go bruins go...
bring on the cup
we are going to win it all this year
and yes that is a good problem to have

Click to read more...

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Is this the Bruins thread of the Leafs thread? Couldn't tell with the majority of this post.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

I must be on bath salts because I share the same thought as BFS94. But is the question "Building through the draft is bad"?

Because Colorados top line begs to differ.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I must be on bath salts because I share the same thought as BFS94. But is the question "Building through the draft is bad"?

Because Colorados top line begs to differ.

Couldn't even quote me and give me the satisfaction of reading this. Tragic.

 

[EverettMike]

Continues to be the most asinine "argument" ever, because it fails to account for the possibility a team can TRADE GOOD PLAYERS FOR OTHER ASSETS.

But if you don't mind being obtuse over that point-destroying inconvenience, yeah sure, HUGE PROBLEM HAVE TOO MANY GOOD PLAYERS.

 

[EverettMike]

Also, it seems the real problem is Toronto's good players maybe aren't good enough (at least not yet). A team getting into cap trouble by overpaying their players is a very real problem for any organization (what up, Edmonton!)

It doesn't make you a genius for arguing for a year "having too many good players is a problem."

 

[Dr Hook]

If it is a problem, by definition it is not good. If it is good, then it isn't a problem. In the interests of pedantry, of course.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Continues to be the most asinine "argument" ever, because it fails to account for the possibility a team can TRADE GOOD PLAYERS FOR OTHER ASSETS.

But if you don't mind being obtuse over that point-destroying inconvenience, yeah sure, HUGE PROBLEM HAVE TOO MANY GOOD PLAYERS.

Hawks did great moving good players for Assets after 2010. Exhibit A of why that thought process is asinine.

 

[EverettMike]

Hawks did great moving good players for Assets after 2010. Exhibit A of why that thought process is asinine.

I mean, the Bruins hand was forced by Burke, but a post '09 cap crunch created by too many good young players did lead to three great future assets.

And as far as I remember those were all maximized and we don't need to discuss that transaction further.

 

[LouJersey]

Nylander and Kadri will fetch some good pieces. They also have a very good prospect system. Marleau off the cap after next season as well.

 

[weaponomega]

Reading/skimming/TL;DR; is your point the Bruins have a cap problem? Because I don't see it.

 

[LSCII]

The issue isn't that Toronto has too many good players and they can't pay them all. It's that they're top heavy and have too many good offensive forwards and jack shit in terms of young defensemen with upside. So it's really a criticism on how they've constructed their roster. With the group of forwards they've amassed, they're basically forced to be over reliant on that skill and outscore their opponents since their defense sucks. That's a flawed roster. It's also why I said that regardless of them signing Tavares, they'd still be a first round out come playoffs because they've ignored the back end yet again.

Like others have said though, this is easily correctable if they move the right forwards to bolster their defense. No clue if they will, but that's the obvious move.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

If you go out of your way consistently to say you have a genius IQ and that you are a "genius at work" shouldn't you make the small concerted effort to have proper punctuation and grammar in your posts?

Just sayin...

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

yeah, too many good players isnt Toronto's problem.

Having a GM that spends like a drunken sailor is

They gave out way too much money to young players that havent proven or won anything yet (Matthews, Nylander, soon to be Marner)

They followed the Chicago model, but skipped the "win 3 Cups in 5 years" part

 

[LSCII]

Nylander and Kadri will fetch some good pieces. They also have a very good prospect system. Marleau off the cap after next season as well.

Tough spot for them to be in, given that they're likely to be selling low on both those guys. Kadri had a marginal season this year, compared to the year before where they could have sold high on him. Same for Nylander. The holdout really messed up his year and he looked like a shell of himself most of the time he did play.

 

[EverettMike]

Tough spot for them to be in, given that they're likely to be selling low on both those guys. Kadri had a marginal season this year, compared to the year before where they could have sold high on him. Same for Nylander. The holdout really messed up his year and he looked like a shell of himself most of the time he did play.

That's why I think Nylander's value is still high. Basically half of a bad season thrown off by a contract dispute. If they put him out there all it will take is two teams wanting him to get back a nice package.

 

[YouTakeTheVan]

It really isn't fair -- here's a team that was terrible, got great draft picks, drafted the best players, paid them top dollar, and also sign the top free agents for top dollar, and now is bumping up against the salary cap that prevents them from paying big money for more good players!

Actually I guess that's fair.

That might even be the salary cap working as intended.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

That's why I think Nylander's value is still high. Basically half of a bad season thrown off by a contract dispute. If they put him out there all it will take is two teams wanting him to get back a nice package.

I think its the opposite, his value is in the tank.

long hold out into the season, now has a huge contract and fails spectacularly once on the ice.

teams arent going to give up good value for him until he proves he isnt a fluke

 

[EverettMike]

I think its the opposite, his value is in the tank.

long hold out into the season, now has a huge contract and fails spectacularly once on the ice.

teams arent going to give up good value for him until he proves he isnt a fluke

Totally disagree. Teams can overlook half a season that was wonky from the get-go. Two straight seasons and I'd agree with you.

 

[DominicT]

Nylander and Kadri will fetch some good pieces. They also have a very good prospect system. Marleau off the cap after next season as well.

When you can throw in young guys like Rasmus Sandin and Tymothy Liljegren on ELC and it improves your blueline, it helps the cap.

When teams are looking to sign/extend players, they aren't just looking at this year. They look beyond this year and set a plan in place. To suggest the Leafs have not done their homework on this is just completely asinine.

It's like when the Bruins made a pitch to JT91. Everyone knew they'd have to do something to make the cap work. Does anyone really believe the Bruins made a pitch with just one year on their mind?

There's a lot of people that want to promote the "haha I was right, I told you so" agenda here.

How about before we claim anything we wait until we see what happens.

IMO, after last night, it's pretty bad timing to bring this up. I'm sure there are Leaf fans coming over to see what Bruins fans are saying. This just adds fuel to the fire.

 

[LouJersey]

Tough spot for them to be in, given that they're likely to be selling low on both those guys. Kadri had a marginal season this year, compared to the year before where they could have sold high on him. Same for Nylander. The holdout really messed up his year and he looked like a shell of himself most of the time he did play.

Kadri has another 3 years at 4.5 per. That's an absolute steal IMO. Even as a 3C there would be a line around the block for him.

Nylander 2 years as a 60 point scorer prior to the holdout/re sign. 22 years old at about 7 mil per over the next 5 years, will get a haul as well IMO.

 

[00BW]

Well, if we are talking about how to fix the Leafs in the Bruins board, sure, I'll take a swing.

To: Arizona ($21.5m)
Matthews
Kadri
Dermott
Zaitsev

To: Toronto ($16.2m)
Galchenyuk
Fischer
Keller
Chychrun
Hjalmarsson

Arizona gets their local guy, and the best player in the trade.
Toronto gets the D upgrade they need, some good young center/wingers, and an extra $5 cap flexibility (Kapanen).

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I may be a world class @$$ and if you feel that way... I dont really object much...

listening to this past month of leafs lunch has been so fun for me {do I feel its more fun than the Bruin's cup run? hmm... maybe I do}

im sorry boys and girls, but cap management is important. and I keep beating the drum that what happens in Toronto is important for the next cba. the owners in Toronto are extremely important partners of the NHL

this playoff saw every single canadien market get eliminated in the first round or miss the playoffs all together... and yet 3 of the teams are in some pretty severe cap problems.

I was told without any doubt... this is a good problem to have. now I here gino reda talking about including picks/prospects to dump marleau… to dump Zaitsev...

I mean, sure... yeah... maybe they can dump these expensive players... but remember teams like us are maybe trying to dump backes and miller... teams like tampa are maybe trying to dump Callahan... teams like Calgary might be trying to dump james neal…

how many dumps are possible?

its not a good problem to have when your kids at 21-22 are being paid like ufa. its just not. sorry

when the draisailt and McDavid deals were getting signed I debated a few of you here hard about the precedent being set. I predicted all of this.

{damn just sprained my arm again... patting myself on the back is so damn hard. And jesus I think my grammer sucked again in this post. Ok, enough for now. this problem is just beginning. will have months to enjoy it later. right now I got to get ready for game 4. go bruins go}

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Toronto is going to be fine. But I think they are going to jettison the wrong blue liners Zaitsev is a solid 2nd liner at a good price. They're gonna get pennies on the dollar for him, lose Gardiner for nothing, and then lose Muzzin for nothing next year. Gonna be tough to get over the hump with that happening and us and Tampa in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.

Reilly+Muzzin+ 4 guys making 1 mil a year would scare me and thats what their blue line is shaping up to be next year.


Re us this run has raised the price on a lot of guys. I am more than happy to bite the bullet on McAvoy/Carlo/Krug give me that core going forward. If I am Sweeney I am begging Coyle to extend around 5 per and Mojo to take that prior to July 1 when a bigger offer will come. K Miller has likely played his last game for us but I think Moore might be the eventual Chara replacement when that day comes he can slot up I don't need the guy to contend for Norris trophys just eat minutes vs top lines and move the puck. The 2 guys I don't see room for are Gryz after next year when he earns a raise to 3+ which he will and Heinen who is likely collecting 3+ in arbitration this summer hes a .5 PPG player for his career and actually deserves that he has only sucked when he was forced to play with soft rookies JFK and Donato. We have to hope Danton wants to bet on himself and sign a 1 year deal and then try and cash in next summer. This Cup run might convince JDB to leave some money on the table. Would he turn down 8 years 40 mil if we offered it or 6 years 30? Doubt he gets extended prior to next summer but it would be good business on our part to try and do so IMO I could see him exploding next year.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

We are not in bad shape for next year BTW considering the team is in the Finals.

14.3 mil in space with Carlo/McAvoy/Mojo/Heinen to sign but move K Miller out and you have 16.8. I think we can get those 4 signed for that.