A case for firing Doug Wilson

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
Hello all,

I know that I made a promise to leave these boards if the Sharks lost game 6. Well, they lost, but I'm going to have to break my promise. I enjoy these boards too much to leave and was just trying to show faith.

Whether or not we win game 7 I believe is no longer relevant at this point, as Marc-Edouard Vlasic likely has a concussion. I don't think we're going to go much further in the playoffs even if we make it to round 2. Our best defenseman is Justin Braun, a solid #2 shutdown defender. Next best, jason Demers, a shaky player whose defensive abilities are constantly in question. He is very inconsistent and has been dreadful these playoffs. Next after that, Dan Boyle, a man who has regressed completely and while he has been decent these last few games, he has definitely not been good. The reason we lost tonight is because we let up 2 more goals after the first questionable screw job goal (which Hannan played terribly, I may add), not because the refs made a bad call. I know, it is quite difficult to prepare for your team's most important player getting injured. But the defense needed work regardless. Wilson should have prepared for this in the off season, knowing how bad all 3 of Matt Irwin, Brad Stuart, and Scott Hannan were. But he didn't. He also made the bad assumption of thinking Boyle would suddenly improve on his defensive play.

The fact is, Doug Wilson has always made a small mistake in addressing the team's needs. Last off season, he dealt a 2nd round pick to acquire Tyler Kennedy. Tyler Kennedy has been a healthy scratch all playoffs, and, when healthy, is a non factor. He's barely an NHL player. That 2nd, along with Kennedy's 2.35M could've gotten us a solid two-way defenseman. Maybe at the TDL, DW could have traded for Ehrhoff. Either way, he needed another defenseman. He did not acquire that defenseman, he acquired Tyler Kennedy. That was the now player that he spent a significant future on.

In the past, it was always scoring depth. Now, the scoring depth has been filled, but the D is bad again. It's always been one or the other. In 2009, he traded for dany Heatley in an awfully dumb deal. He should've just stayed away from Heatley, whose career was being ruined by injuries, and didn't bring what the team needed. The good thing about 2009 was the mobile defensemen who put up a lot of offense. They had a great system there. They had great mobility from the blue line, and ruined it by ditching Ehrhoff to keep Blake, who couldn't keep up with the faster NHL. Ehrhoff led the Canucks to a SCF game 7 two years later.

He has never been properly able to assess the team and get the players they need to win. He has always misjudged the team. In my eyes, he is the epitome of a goodnotgreat GM. His teams will always be good, not great. He has never really filled out the holes the team has. I understand it is difficult to prepare for an injury like that of Vlasic, but the defense was horrible even before Vlasic went down.
 

Audio Outlaw

Jaded Sharks Fan
Aug 1, 2011
1,520
0
Bay Area, CA
In hindsight, it is always easy to say what should have been done. I like DW, although I do agree with you on his occasional horrible acquiring of players like Kennedy, Wallin, Huskins, and the rest of the lot. However I can't help recognize what good he has done. We got much better and faster up front, and our future forwards are looking bright. I just don't like this teams defense at all, and our goaltending issues seems to be our Achilles heel. We never get the kind of goaltending that wins series. I see the Sharks getting better.. I mean, Hertl and Nieto are a breathe of fresh air. They have already proved to be more valuable than old washouts like Heatley and Havlat. The future is still bright in SJ, just need some defense IMO.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
The fact is, he has built a good team, great core, good young prospects, great drafting. But he has NEVER taken that next step. I don't think he ever will either, to be honest. He has just acquired too many bad players and always used band-aids for holes, rather than actual patches.
 

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
3,831
77
CA
Hello all,

I know that I made a promise to leave these boards if the Sharks lost game 6. Well, they lost, but I'm going to have to break my promise. I enjoy these boards too much to leave and was just trying to show faith.

Whether or not we win game 7 I believe is no longer relevant at this point, as Marc-Edouard Vlasic likely has a concussion. I don't think we're going to go much further in the playoffs even if we make it to round 2. Our best defenseman is Justin Braun, a solid #2 shutdown defender. Next best, jason Demers, a shaky player whose defensive abilities are constantly in question. He is very inconsistent and has been dreadful these playoffs. Next after that, Dan Boyle, a man who has regressed completely and while he has been decent these last few games, he has definitely not been good. The reason we lost tonight is because we let up 2 more goals after the first questionable screw job goal (which Hannan played terribly, I may add), not because the refs made a bad call. I know, it is quite difficult to prepare for your team's most important player getting injured. But the defense needed work regardless. Wilson should have prepared for this in the off season, knowing how bad all 3 of Matt Irwin, Brad Stuart, and Scott Hannan were. But he didn't. He also made the bad assumption of thinking Boyle would suddenly improve on his defensive play.

The fact is, Doug Wilson has always made a small mistake in addressing the team's needs. Last off season, he dealt a 2nd round pick to acquire Tyler Kennedy. Tyler Kennedy has been a healthy scratch all playoffs, and, when healthy, is a non factor. He's barely an NHL player. That 2nd, along with Kennedy's 2.35M could've gotten us a solid two-way defenseman. Maybe at the TDL, DW could have traded for Ehrhoff. Either way, he needed another defenseman. He did not acquire that defenseman, he acquired Tyler Kennedy. That was the now player that he spent a significant future on.

In the past, it was always scoring depth. Now, the scoring depth has been filled, but the D is bad again. It's always been one or the other. In 2009, he traded for dany Heatley in an awfully dumb deal. He should've just stayed away from Heatley, whose career was being ruined by injuries, and didn't bring what the team needed. The good thing about 2009 was the mobile defensemen who put up a lot of offense. They had a great system there. They had great mobility from the blue line, and ruined it by ditching Ehrhoff to keep Blake, who couldn't keep up with the faster NHL. Ehrhoff led the Canucks to a SCF game 7 two years later.

He has never been properly able to assess the team and get the players they need to win. He has always misjudged the team. In my eyes, he is the epitome of a goodnotgreat GM. His teams will always be good, not great. He has never really filled out the holes the team has. I understand it is difficult to prepare for an injury like that of Vlasic, but the defense was horrible even before Vlasic went down.

Chill out. Regarding TK, who would have thought Hertl and Nieto would make the team? Who would have thought that Wingels would take the next step (though he's been really silent this series). Who would have seen Sheppard's improvement?

It was a risk move, and one that didn't work out necessarily, but I don't blame him for it. It was logical. Hell, Seto got a 2nd, and that was for one year. The guy ended up being a healthy scratch and has a 3 mil cap hit.

Regarding the defensive depth, this was/is a weird year. Value for players was all over the map. Not many Dmen were traded (nor forwards/players for the matter). For all you know, DW tried getting a dman, but the asking price was either too high in draft picks, or worse, too high in assets.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again - be very wary about the "blow it up" crowd - most teams who win the cup end up making a one or two person acquisition and that's it.

I can very much see next year being the year of us being legit "favorites" and being able to compete on that dominant next level. This year I see us as a part of the "pack."

Simply put, next year of:

Hertl (year 2) - JT - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Nieto (year 2)/Wingels
Torres - Pavs - Nieto (year 2)/Wingels
Shep - Desi - Burish/4th liner

Vlasic - Demers
xxx - Braun
Irwin - xxx


If we got one legit top 4 LD, I feel great about our chances. Having Stuart and Hannan as regulars is beyond terrible, but again we don't know what DW was able to get. Plus, we were pretty hard up the cap to begin with so that didn't leave much room for him.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
I don't want to blow it up. The team has a good core IMO. But they need changes. They ned a GM who can put the pieces together at the last minute.
 

Linkster

Beard goggles!
Nov 11, 2010
7,184
12
Coastal Sharkifornia
Doug Wilson wipes his arse with casual fan personnel projections.

So sad that SJS&EE's hockey operations are $$$ millions beyond fantasy league tactile experience.
 

Audio Outlaw

Jaded Sharks Fan
Aug 1, 2011
1,520
0
Bay Area, CA
DW has used bandaids and has done some bad drafting... I didn't like I pick from last season. But this kind of consistency can't be ignored. At some point it has to be on the players to get themselves over the hump. That's not necessarily the GMs fault if they don't meet expectations.
 

Reefer

Registered User
Mar 25, 2013
58
0
San Jose
Chill out. Regarding TK, who would have thought Hertl and Nieto would make the team? Who would have thought that Wingels would take the next step (though he's been really silent this series). Who would have seen Sheppard's improvement?

It was a risk move, and one that didn't work out necessarily, but I don't blame him for it. It was logical. Hell, Seto got a 2nd, and that was for one year. The guy ended up being a healthy scratch and has a 3 mil cap hit.

Regarding the defensive depth, this was/is a weird year. Value for players was all over the map. Not many Dmen were traded (nor forwards/players for the matter). For all you know, DW tried getting a dman, but the asking price was either too high in draft picks, or worse, too high in assets.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again - be very wary about the "blow it up" crowd - most teams who win the cup end up making a one or two person acquisition and that's it.

I can very much see next year being the year of us being legit "favorites" and being able to compete on that dominant next level. This year I see us as a part of the "pack."

Simply put, next year of:

Hertl (year 2) - JT - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Nieto (year 2)/Wingels
Torres - Pavs - Nieto (year 2)/Wingels
Shep - Desi - Burish/4th liner

Vlasic - Demers
xxx - Braun
Irwin - xxx


If we got one legit top 4 LD, I feel great about our chances. Having Stuart and Hannan as regulars is beyond terrible, but again we don't know what DW was able to get. Plus, we were pretty hard up the cap to begin with so that didn't leave much room for him.

Well said. I don't understand this horrible move to acquire Kennedy talk. Our bottom 6th depth was an obvious weakness last year and a 2nd round pick for Kennedy was a fair deal. The fact that Nieto and Hertl played so well and it pushed TK to the press box is a blessing for the future of the team. The Heatley deal was not awful, this is a ridiculous statement. We gave up Cheech who was clearly breaking down and Michalek who had 34 pts in 66 games the next year while Heatley scored 39. It didn't lead to a cup, but it is not as if we gave up a stud D-man that we could badly need right now. DW has had made some great moves and some bad moves, but it is easy to look back and say he should have done this or get that player, it is not that easy in the real NHL. The reality is you have no clue to what players or moves he was trying to make.

And Ehrhoff nearly leading the Canucks to the Stanley Cup, come on. He was -7 and had 1A in the finals and was incredibly inconsistent throughout those playoffs.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,412
12,620
DW has used bandaids and has done some bad drafting... I didn't like I pick from last season. But this kind of consistency can't be ignored. At some point it has to be on the players to get themselves over the hump. That's not necessarily the GMs fault if they don't meet expectations.

Just because you didn't like the pick doesn't mean it wasn't a good one but admittedly his drafts from 2005-2010 have been sketchy but even his worst ones have produced useful NHLers.
 

God

Free Citizen
Apr 2, 2007
10,308
7,119
Vancouver
Doug Wilson has made this team a contender for 9 straight seasons and you want to fire him?

And Ehrhoff nearly leading the Canucks to the Stanley Cup, come on. He was -7 and had 1A in the finals and was incredibly inconsistent throughout those playoffs.

Ehrhoff was basically our #1 defenseman. He had 2 goals and 9 assists in 15 games before he got injured in game 3 against you guys. In the finals, he had to get injections into his shoulder to dull the pain. Obviously, it didn't help.
 

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
3,831
77
CA
Doug Wilson has made this team a contender for 9 straight seasons and you want to fire him?



Ehrhoff was basically our #1 defenseman. He had 2 goals and 9 assists in 15 games before he got injured in game 3 against you guys. In the finals, he had to get injections into his shoulder to dull the pain. Obviously, it didn't help.

IMHO, if the Sharks somehow managed to get Ehrhoff from BUF in the offseason without sacrificing any roster player forwards, or Vlasic/Demers/Braun, then we instantly become favorites in the west.
 

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
3,831
77
CA
Doug Wilson has made this team a contender for 9 straight seasons and you want to fire him?



Ehrhoff was basically our #1 defenseman. He had 2 goals and 9 assists in 15 games before he got injured in game 3 against you guys. In the finals, he had to get injections into his shoulder to dull the pain. Obviously, it didn't help.

Also, who do you see winning game 7, since, you know, you're god and all... :sarcasm:
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,412
12,620
DW has slowly but assuredly improve this team over the last 3 years. In a way, the team went through a min rebuild after losing to Vancouver. There were some mistakes but we started with a top 6 and a weak bottom 6 and defense group. Now there's a strong forward group regardless of what happens wednesday and the defense is better now than it was two years ago even if it still sucks but it was impossible to know that Irwin would regress so hard and Boyle would decline so quickly. If both of those guys were close to what they were last year, the defense would be much much better.
 

HSD19

Registered User
Feb 19, 2009
1,492
359
If you guys do, I would love for him to come to Vancouver, I think he has done a fantastic job. Although giving up Ehrhoff was a bad move.
 

TheDanceOfMaternity

Registered User
Jul 13, 2006
6,710
107
San Francisco, CA
After seeing this team squander opportunities for the last nine years (and only missing the playoffs once i the last 16 years!) I would consider blowing it in front of our fans to be a fitting resounding end to whatever core he has put together.

Of course, judging from the attitude of this board, what will probably happen is the sharks lose by 3 goals or something and the fans beg the players to come out to center ice and raise their sticks so they can be applauded uproariously.
 

Barrie22

Shark fan in hiding
Aug 11, 2009
24,963
6,165
ontario
DW has used bandaids and has done some bad drafting... I didn't like I pick from last season. But this kind of consistency can't be ignored. At some point it has to be on the players to get themselves over the hump. That's not necessarily the GMs fault if they don't meet expectations.

Nobody liked the couture pick either, he was to slow and they moved up to pick a player that was no good was the talk after that draft..... Fast forward 2 years later and couture plays his rookie season and he is the best thing since sliced bread. Fast forward even farther to the present time and he is the future of the team.

I am pretty sure not many liked the hertl pick either. Fast forward a year later and he is now an untouchable player because he is good.

Yes wilson has failed on some picks (every single GM has, even the drafting guru in detroit has missed on plenty of picks). But wilson turns more horrible picks (according to this board into servicable nhl players).

And then others he has hit home runs with like vlasic, pavelski.

If teams could see the future then lots of teams would look drastically different right now because of drafting the wrong people.
 

LeeIFBB

Crossing the Rubicon
Sep 30, 2011
2,840
614
Tanning Bed
He is the best GM in the league at not winning anything that matters. How can you hold him accountable for that?
 

19sharks19

Registered User
Mar 16, 2006
3,186
0
T.O. to S.J. & back
Well, I am not going to critique D.W. other than on one item; I think with the squad we came into the playoffs with this season, a 'touch up' we needed very badly was another D man. It was WELL KNOWN and discussed in depth here alone but, he did not address it. We are seeing the results of that mistake right now. (to add one to the positive side though, when re-signing Joe and Patty, he didn't re-sign Boyle).

But to add, I am going to question some decisions of the coaching in the last two games: the Shameful game 5 showing; after going down 2-0 (even after 1-0 when the team was on it's heels from the get go) and seeing the team hadn't really shown up to the game yet, why in the world did he not call an early time out? Almost like last night during the commercial break when they started a bit lazily and he quickly ripped into them during that time out. Game 6; after that blown call putting L.A. up 2-1, then seeing the team start a parade to the penalty box and seeing the frustration on the bench, is it not the coaching whom has to settle the guys down and keep them focused? There was still almost half a period left and we were playing pretty good to that point. But we instead simply watched them start to play in angry mode and take nonsense penalties and just kiss the game away and left Stalock out to dry, whom to that point had a solid game.
 
Last edited:

bproeder

The rich man's Bozak
Jul 30, 2005
181
0
San Jose, CA
DW has slowly but assuredly improve this team over the last 3 years. In a way, the team went through a min rebuild after losing to Vancouver. There were some mistakes but we started with a top 6 and a weak bottom 6 and defense group. Now there's a strong forward group regardless of what happens wednesday and the defense is better now than it was two years ago even if it still sucks but it was impossible to know that Irwin would regress so hard and Boyle would decline so quickly. If both of those guys were close to what they were last year, the defense would be much much better.

The big problem with the DW era is the expectations he has set- Stanley Cup or bust! I have noticed that this verbiage has been toned down some over the past couple of years, but since the Sharks have been playoff contenders, he has set very lofty expectations each year and is really good at convincing you that these are achievable..

A couple of years ago, I exchanged emails with him as I was a season ticket holder at the time and he was convinced that this core of guys would and could get it done. I wasn't so sure and was frustrated with first round knockouts and having my season ticket prices raised consistently. Kudos to him for even taking the time to exchange emails with me.

Well.........It seems this core of players still consistently has a hard time stepping on team's throats when they have them down. Even if they somehow get by the Kings, this is not a team with a killer instinct that will ever get far. This is the team Doug Wilson has chosen and has layered in long term deals to keep them here.

DW fired Ron Wilson and then said it was on the players- the players he chose to move forward. He can't in good faith fire TMAC without looking in the mirror first. I'm not sure that the people above him even know what to do in looking for another GM.

I agree with the money making machine concept. The Sharks consistently raise ticket prices without a drop in attendance. As long as this trend continues, it doesn't matter what they do on the ice. People can get upset all they want, but as long as the place is packed, nothing major will change.
 

rideaucrusher21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2008
1,126
259
CA
The Sharks have consistently been at or near the top of the league for more than a decade. Wilson has been the man leading this ship through that whole time, and I think it would be absolutely insane to make a change. You can argue with all the little moves you want, but the fact of the matter is Wilson has brought in more than enough talent over the years. Excluding the big 3, Couture, Hertl, Vlasic, Burns, Braun, Nieto, etc are all great pieces going forward.

Another thing, suggest an available replacement for DW. What's their track record and why do you think they'll be better?
 

Kegsey

Defense be scared, Hertl coming.
Oct 20, 2011
5,149
2,987
Canada
We're going to game 7 against LA, something that pretty much everyone on this site predicted. Put the pitchforks away.
 

bproeder

The rich man's Bozak
Jul 30, 2005
181
0
San Jose, CA
The Sharks have consistently been at or near the top of the league for more than a decade. Wilson has been the man leading this ship through that whole time, and I think it would be absolutely insane to make a change. You can argue with all the little moves you want, but the fact of the matter is Wilson has brought in more than enough talent over the years. Excluding the big 3, Couture, Hertl, Vlasic, Burns, Braun, Nieto, etc are all great pieces going forward.

Another thing, suggest an available replacement for DW. What's their track record and why do you think they'll be better?

Depends on how you define better. Is just making the playoffs considered success, or do you want more? He gets us to the playoffs each year. You can't argue with that, but how many times has this team gotten beyond the second round, let alone the Stanley Cup finals?

It all depends on how you define success.
 

Barrie22

Shark fan in hiding
Aug 11, 2009
24,963
6,165
ontario
The Sharks have consistently been at or near the top of the league for more than a decade. Wilson has been the man leading this ship through that whole time, and I think it would be absolutely insane to make a change. You can argue with all the little moves you want, but the fact of the matter is Wilson has brought in more than enough talent over the years. Excluding the big 3, Couture, Hertl, Vlasic, Burns, Braun, Nieto, etc are all great pieces going forward.

Another thing, suggest an available replacement for DW. What's their track record and why do you think they'll be better?

All will say one thing, which is funny considering the running joke about wilson with trades and free agent signings.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,430
13,851
Folsom
The Sharks have consistently been at or near the top of the league for more than a decade. Wilson has been the man leading this ship through that whole time, and I think it would be absolutely insane to make a change. You can argue with all the little moves you want, but the fact of the matter is Wilson has brought in more than enough talent over the years. Excluding the big 3, Couture, Hertl, Vlasic, Burns, Braun, Nieto, etc are all great pieces going forward.

Another thing, suggest an available replacement for DW. What's their track record and why do you think they'll be better?

How is any of us supposed to know who is available and who would be better? Just because we can't answer that doesn't mean people are wrong to want to go in a different direction with that position. How did we know that DW was better than Lombardi at his time of hire? We didn't and Lombardi had a pretty good track record here and then later on won a cup.

I don't think anyone would argue we've had some measure of success in his tenure but like coaches they have a shelf life and you need to give someone else a shot after some point.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad