Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
To me the two best international teams of all time are the Candian teams of '76 and '87. Both won their respective Canada Cups and both are very deserving to be compared to. The '87 team beat what many say is the best Russian team ever assembled (although the '79-81 Russians would beat them), and as for the '76 team they did very well too. They beat Finland 11-2 and the runner up Czechs 6-0 and 5-4 in OT. They are the two best teams ever INO followed by the 1979-81 Russians. Forwards have their stats form that NHL season. Defenseman and goalies are rated by who was the best at that time.
1976 Team 1987 team
Forwards Forwards
Guy Lafleur 50 69 125 Wayne Gretzky 62 121 183
Bobby Clarke 30 89 119 Mario Lemieux 54 53 107
Gil Perreault 44 69 113 Mark Messier 37 70 107
Bill Barber 50 62 112 Doug Gilmour 42 63 105
Pete Mahovlich 34 71 105 Dale Hawerchuk 47 53 100
Darryl Sittler 41 59 100 Michel Goulet 49 47 96
Marcel Dionne 40 54 94 Kevin Dineen 40 39 79
Lanny McDonald 37 56 93 Mike Gartner 41 32 73
Reggie Leach 61 30 91 Glenn Anderson 35 38 73
Rick Martin 49 37 86 Brian Propp 31 36 67
Phil Esposito 35 48 83 Brent Sutter 27 36 63
Steve Shutt 45 34 79 Claude Lemieux 27 26 53
Danny Gare 50 23 73 Rick Tocchet 21 28 49
Bob Gainey 15 13 28
Bobby Hull WHA STATS
Defensemen
Bobby Orr Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin Paul Coffey
Guy Lapointe Larry Murphy
Serge Savard Craig Hartsburg
Larry Robinson James Patrick
Jimmy Watson Norman Rochefort
Doug Crossman
Goalies
Rogie Vachon Grant Fuhr
Gerry Cheevers Ron Hextall
Glenn Resch Kelly Hrudey
Pretty impressive eh? I was just thinking notable ommissions on that '76 team are Brad Park and Rene Robert. Wonder why they werent picked or maybe injured? The '87 team actually cut Yzerman and Roy? But like it matters now.
Forwards: Its hard to believe that any team would actually beat #99 and #66 near their primes but if you look at the '87 team there is a big talent drop off after the first 6 or 7. Take the '76 team and you see that every single player put up big points that year, other than the defensive minded Gainey. Gretz, Lemieux and Messier are the best of the three no question and they beat out '76 Lafleur, Perreault and Clarke. But look at how deep the '76 forwards are. Yes Lemieux and Gretzky are better than anyone on '76 but after that they dont compare to '76. Keep in mind Lafleur was no slouch himself. He was very capable of winning a game on his own. And if he didnt than who is stopping Perreault? Or Sittler? Or Dionne? Or Leach? To me '76 is too deep.
Defence: This should be a no brainer. Orr was still the best in that tourny. He was injured all year but still won the MVP in the Canada Cup. Potvin was right behind him. And after that Lapointe was the next best. Compare that to Bourque, Coffey and Murphy and the winner goes to '76. Throw in Savard and Robinson vs. Hartsburg and Patrick and its no contest.
Goal: Vachon was no slouch in net either. IMO he's the best player not in the HOF, and that included before Neely got in. But Fuhr was in his prime right then. He was fresh off his third Cup and a year before his own Vezina Trophy. Plus the way he played in the Canada Cup was brilliant. Vachon shone very well too, but if you had to bet the farm on a goalie to perform in the clutch than Fuhr is your man. Dont beleive me than just watch Game 2 of the '87 Canada Cup final. If either the injured Dryden or Parent were in there then its a different story but they werent so I'll take Fuhr.
So in conclusion here's my take. The '76 team had a much more superior defence and a much more balanced forward attack. The top six forwards between the two teams are in order: Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, Messier, Clarke, Perreault. So top end the '87 team is better but on the bottom end you'd have to say that Steve Shutt could score more than Claude Lemieux. And the '76 team has 17 Hall of Famers while the '87 team has 10 (assuming Messier and Gilmour are in). Both teams had a LOT of guys in their primes but to me '76 is just too deep. I dont see any team in the history beating the 1976 Canada Cup team.
1976 Team 1987 team
Forwards Forwards
Guy Lafleur 50 69 125 Wayne Gretzky 62 121 183
Bobby Clarke 30 89 119 Mario Lemieux 54 53 107
Gil Perreault 44 69 113 Mark Messier 37 70 107
Bill Barber 50 62 112 Doug Gilmour 42 63 105
Pete Mahovlich 34 71 105 Dale Hawerchuk 47 53 100
Darryl Sittler 41 59 100 Michel Goulet 49 47 96
Marcel Dionne 40 54 94 Kevin Dineen 40 39 79
Lanny McDonald 37 56 93 Mike Gartner 41 32 73
Reggie Leach 61 30 91 Glenn Anderson 35 38 73
Rick Martin 49 37 86 Brian Propp 31 36 67
Phil Esposito 35 48 83 Brent Sutter 27 36 63
Steve Shutt 45 34 79 Claude Lemieux 27 26 53
Danny Gare 50 23 73 Rick Tocchet 21 28 49
Bob Gainey 15 13 28
Bobby Hull WHA STATS
Defensemen
Bobby Orr Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin Paul Coffey
Guy Lapointe Larry Murphy
Serge Savard Craig Hartsburg
Larry Robinson James Patrick
Jimmy Watson Norman Rochefort
Doug Crossman
Goalies
Rogie Vachon Grant Fuhr
Gerry Cheevers Ron Hextall
Glenn Resch Kelly Hrudey
Pretty impressive eh? I was just thinking notable ommissions on that '76 team are Brad Park and Rene Robert. Wonder why they werent picked or maybe injured? The '87 team actually cut Yzerman and Roy? But like it matters now.
Forwards: Its hard to believe that any team would actually beat #99 and #66 near their primes but if you look at the '87 team there is a big talent drop off after the first 6 or 7. Take the '76 team and you see that every single player put up big points that year, other than the defensive minded Gainey. Gretz, Lemieux and Messier are the best of the three no question and they beat out '76 Lafleur, Perreault and Clarke. But look at how deep the '76 forwards are. Yes Lemieux and Gretzky are better than anyone on '76 but after that they dont compare to '76. Keep in mind Lafleur was no slouch himself. He was very capable of winning a game on his own. And if he didnt than who is stopping Perreault? Or Sittler? Or Dionne? Or Leach? To me '76 is too deep.
Defence: This should be a no brainer. Orr was still the best in that tourny. He was injured all year but still won the MVP in the Canada Cup. Potvin was right behind him. And after that Lapointe was the next best. Compare that to Bourque, Coffey and Murphy and the winner goes to '76. Throw in Savard and Robinson vs. Hartsburg and Patrick and its no contest.
Goal: Vachon was no slouch in net either. IMO he's the best player not in the HOF, and that included before Neely got in. But Fuhr was in his prime right then. He was fresh off his third Cup and a year before his own Vezina Trophy. Plus the way he played in the Canada Cup was brilliant. Vachon shone very well too, but if you had to bet the farm on a goalie to perform in the clutch than Fuhr is your man. Dont beleive me than just watch Game 2 of the '87 Canada Cup final. If either the injured Dryden or Parent were in there then its a different story but they werent so I'll take Fuhr.
So in conclusion here's my take. The '76 team had a much more superior defence and a much more balanced forward attack. The top six forwards between the two teams are in order: Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, Messier, Clarke, Perreault. So top end the '87 team is better but on the bottom end you'd have to say that Steve Shutt could score more than Claude Lemieux. And the '76 team has 17 Hall of Famers while the '87 team has 10 (assuming Messier and Gilmour are in). Both teams had a LOT of guys in their primes but to me '76 is just too deep. I dont see any team in the history beating the 1976 Canada Cup team.