Post-Game Talk: #72| FLYERS at Jets | Tues., March 21, 2017

[Beef Invictus]

A team hopefully that has a surplus of forwards who can shoot and want someone who can get them the puck.

Other than Schenn, who is a good shot among our forwards?
Jets got off two good shots - two goals.
We had a few opportunities and missed the net.

If you get rid of Simmonds, who else is good in the crease?

If we get rid of Voracek, who else is as good at zone entry and keeping posession?

If we get rid of Giroux, who will run the PP anywhere near as well?


We can play those what-ifs all day. You've done nothing but crap all over those two, and now you suddenly believe they have real value? Yeah, OK. Makes sense.

 

[Striiker]

Like who, deadhead? You say what kind of team it would need to be, but which team that actually exists fits that description? Which contender, or boarderline contender, needs Voracek and can give us a young legit top 6 sniper and picks?

Plus, we already have a few guys in the system who have the potential become exactly what you want, top 6 players who can shoot the puck, while keeping our top producers on the team. Konecny, Lindblom, maybe Laberge, maybe Allison, maybe someone we draft this year. Not all sure things, but nobody we'd get back in these hypothetical trades are a sure thing either.

Point is, trading them is a bad idea and it won't happen. It sets the team back and wouldn't bring back enough value to be worth that risk.

 

[Striiker]

If we get rid of Voracek, who else is as good at zone entry and keeping posession?

If we get rid of Giroux, who will run the PP anywhere near as well?


We can play those what-ifs all day. You've done nothing but crap all over those two, and now you suddenly believe they have real value? Yeah, OK. Makes sense.

People love to dump on Giroux for "only scoring on the PP" and pretend that it's so easy. Completely ignoring he's the best PP player in the league and getting a PP to be that good isn't as easy as they like to make it seem... just look at the 2nd unit.

And that's not even considering how Girouxs PP skill is a large part of why Simmonds and Schenn are able to score as much as they do. Remove Giroux and I guarentee their point and goal totals fall significantly. Simmonds is great, but the PP is a huge part of his game and Giroux is a huge part of the PP so...

 

[TCTC]

I don't think it really matters who we'd prefer to trade, because Simmonds clearly has the most value because of his contract. That's important. If you have to trade a key player due to cap reasons, the return has to be significant.

 

[tymed]

Center is much closer to a position of weakness than strength for us and means trading Giroux isn't realistically worth entertaining. As stated above, it's also ridiculous to undermine the contribution of his powerplay mastery.

Our position of depth is at RW. We have a wealth of asset value there and any potential core trade should come from there. Additionally, we have scoring prospects coming up that side already as well.

We could get some good value selling off some powerplay points from the wing without setting the unit itself back too much. Simmer seems to point to the largest return and value.

 

[SportsPhan8]

you can't tell me there isn't a recent college grad who's hungry to prove themselves that can't do a better job than Panotch and at a lower salary.

I agree, that guy is *****ing horrible and boring. Anyone remember that time during 2000 when Clarke tore him a new one, over the Lindros saga?

Sam Carchidi is a way better Flyers' reporter than Panotch.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Carchidi is awful too. A better a question for the Flyers beat is which one is competent let alone actually good at their job.

 

[Lotusflower]

Point is, trading them is a bad idea and it won't happen. It sets the team back and wouldn't bring back enough value to be worth that risk.

This i agree with. This core is what it is and we've got to ride it until the wheels off simply because their is no exit strategy that makes sense as of right now.

Its weakness is speed, 5 on 5 play, and goal scoring; all things at the top of the list for building a contender in the modern NHL.

There's no real clean option for dealing Giroux/Voracek but if I was Hextall I'd be kicking the tires on Simmonds/Schenn for quality futures at forward to help with the imbalance in the current core

 

[Striiker]

This i agree with. This core is what it is and we've got to ride it until the wheels off simply because their is no exit strategy that makes sense as of right now.

Its weakness is speed, 5 on 5 play, and goal scoring; all things at the top of the list for building a contender in the modern NHL.

There's no real clean option for dealing Giroux/Voracek but if I was Hextall I'd be kicking the tires on Simmonds/Schenn for quality futures at forward to help with the imbalance in the current core

As far as the forward cores speed goes, I don't think the issue is really skating speed as much as transition speed. By that I mean, getting the puck up from the defense to the forwards as they're at full speed leaving the defensive zone, going through the neutral zone, and entering the offensive zone. Too often they're skating through the NZ and two of the forwards have to stop at the blueline because the forward with the puck only just got it from the defensemen. So, instead of all three entering with speed, the choices are either try to dangle through or dump and chase.

If you're McDavid you can make up for that by being crazy fast, but normal players can be made to look slower than they really are by poor puck movement from the defense. I think that's one thing that will be significantly improved next year if we have Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Morin all up at once. Plus, having defensemen who are skilled and quick enough to jump up with the rush also makes a huge difference.

Just think of the start of the year when they were playing great, nobody was complaining about speed because the team was playing great and the defensemen were actually doing a good job at puck moving and even scoring (led the league in D scoring for quite a while). Only problem at that point was goaltending. But then, as the defense fell back to earth, the speed complaints started again because they became sloppy and things slowed down. I really believe that the defense improving will help a ton of things, including overall speed and 5v5 scoring. It's no coincidence that the teams 5v5 scoring has gone down as our defense has gotten worse the last handful of years. Even if they're not directly getting goals or assists, they play a huge role in 5v5 scoring.

 

[flyers0909]

I was just gonna post this. Even the **** 4th line can cycle and get a shot from the soft areas in the d. Voracek is the worst player on the team right now.

Good to see the 4th line finding the soft spots in the D at center ice.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Shocking to see that shot by VdV from West Bum**** Egypt was saved.

 

[deadhead]

If we get rid of Voracek, who else is as good at zone entry and keeping posession?

If we get rid of Giroux, who will run the PP anywhere near as well?


We can play those what-ifs all day. You've done nothing but crap all over those two, and now you suddenly believe they have real value? Yeah, OK. Makes sense.

I don't think it makes sense to get rid of Giroux because he has little trade value and could bounce back. Though Jets get two open shorts from the circle, 2 goals, Giroux gets two open shots from the same area, missed the net both times. He has to stop trying to blast everything and relearn his quick wrist shot that he used to be able to fire accurately.

Voracek may be good at bringing the puck in, but won't the young defense take care of that in the future until players like Rubtsov arrive? Problem is what Voracek does with the puck, which is basically to figure skate before losing it. It's like he has no clue what he wants to do once he enters the O-zone. And he's steadily regressed defensively. I think he provides the best combination of the most trade value and the least harm to this team in a trade. And yes, some GM will be tempted to bet on his potential.

Hextall has to do something, and I don't think trading Simmonds is it, because he's not only our top goal scorer, he our most physical forward and plays a key role on both the PP and the PK. Losing him would hurt more than losing Voracek.

No way we trade Couts, and Schenn makes sense only if we get a sniper back, he's a lot better player at RW than C, so I've written off this season as simply being out of place.

 

[WIP CALLER]

I would be on the fire Hextall train if he traded Simmonds over Voracek. there aren't many guys in the league, let alone our own team, that can do what simmer does. i actually think deadheads comment about Jake figure skating and coughing it up more often than not is spot on. simmer isn't only good at special teams, hes one of our only physical offenseman, and can slot up and down the line up 5 on 5. he's a leader on this team as well and one of the few guys willing to stand up for his teammates. Jake has some good games but when he's off of his game he really brings his entire line down with him. jake isn't physical, he isn't a goal scorer, and he'd be replaceable in many aspects especially with the depth at rw. simmonds game almost certainly wilI hold up into his 30s better than jakes as well. i really don't care if he wouldn't return as much as Simmonds, losing Simmonds would hurt the team far worse than jake. Jake may not get fair value but he'd definitely get us a decent haul in return on top of freeing up all of that cap space. and again with the depth at wing, we wouldn't necessarily need a young top 6 winger in return for him. Simmonds is the last member of the core that I would trade away including giroux. he really is just irreplaceable when you look at everything that he brings to the team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't have much interest in extending a 31 year old to the type of contract Simmonds can command. So I'm totally fine with moving him before then. As I don't really see the team competing &/or being a contender by the end of his current contract.

 

[kelmitchell]

I don't have much interest in extending a 31 year old to the type of contract Simmonds can command. So I'm totally fine with moving him before then. As I don't really see the team competing &/or being a contender by the end of his current contract.

Which position would you ideally go for? Or would you go for prospects and picks?

 

[Curufinwe]

Edmonton fans were pretty receptive to the idea of Simmonds for Puljujaarvi.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I would burst into tears and many other bodily fluids if we could pry Pulju out of Edmonton. I might even faint. I would definitely swoon.
That. Would. Be. AWESOME.

 

[kelmitchell]

I would burst into tears and many other bodily fluids if we could pry Pulju out of Edmonton. I might even faint. I would definitely swoon.
That. Would. Be. AWESOME.

I too would love to have him

 

[hatcher]

Saw that Voracek disagreed with mason about the jets game. What a joke if he thought that was good enough. Get that **** out of town losing the puck every shift and ****ing up his whole line every night. teams in shambles.

 

[kelmitchell]

Saw that Voracek disagreed with mason about the jets game. What a joke if he thought that was good enough. Get that **** out of town losing the puck every shift and ****ing up his whole line every night. teams in shambles.

Yeah if only we had a team full of grinders and enforcers you would be happy

 

[hatcher]

Yeah if only we had a team full of grinders and enforcers you would be happy

Of course we need those players too but the skill on this team is bad. garbage bad. Even our top hitting forwards like Schenn and Simmonds barely do it anymore. hate mason but he was right and give the puck away had to disagree LOL Joke.

 

[Lotusflower]

Edmonton fans were pretty receptive to the idea of Simmonds for Puljujaarvi.

Even Chiarelli aint that dumb. Simm is in my top 5 favorite Flyers of all time but I take that and run.

Pulju is exactly the type of future the Flyers should be targeting if we trade pieces of the core.

Speed, size, goal scoring, and playmaking. Special teams upside as well as potential dominance 5 on 5; things Simm just doesnt have.

Obviously I wouldnt expect a Pulju type prospect back necessarily but these are the types of players we should be building around; not power play specialists

 

[Curufinwe]

Even Chiarelli aint that dumb.

Are you sure?

 

[kelmitchell]

Are you sure?

He did give lucic a 7 year 7 million dollar deal so he cant be that smart

 

[Johnk0728]

Like who, deadhead? You say what kind of team it would need to be, but which team that actually exists fits that description? Which contender, or boarderline contender, needs Voracek and can give us a young legit top 6 sniper and picks?

Plus, we already have a few guys in the system who have the potential become exactly what you want, top 6 players who can shoot the puck, while keeping our top producers on the team. Konecny, Lindblom, maybe Laberge, maybe Allison, maybe someone we draft this year. Not all sure things, but nobody we'd get back in these hypothetical trades are a sure thing either.

Point is, trading them is a bad idea and it won't happen. It sets the team back and wouldn't bring back enough value to be worth that risk.

You are forgetting about the cap room that moving Voracek would create which is a huge value. Voracek has been underperforming for that cap hit. The main reason to move is to get out from under that anvil of a deal and spend that money elsewhere.