70 years of Russia hockey

Discussion in 'Russia' started by MaxV, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. MaxV Registered User

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    Did you guys know about this documentary? Or is this some sort of series of documentaries?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL_WRrA2jno

    I personally didn't even know the Russian hockey program started in 1946. I guess right after the war.
     
  2. vorky @vorkywh24

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    Yeah, there were a celebration in russian hockey community in December 2016.

    First games of Soviet league were played Dec 22, 1946. Russians consider this date as a day when russian (soviet) hockey was birth. Source, unfortunatelly only in russian.
     
  3. sdf Registered User

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    Thats great. Thats ****in great. Now we suck
     
  4. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Kharlamov was in a different league, no matter how you slice it. He was arguably the best soviet player of all time. Maltsev was just one of the soviet stars with a lot of comparables.
     
  5. wings5 Registered User

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  6. MaxV Registered User

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    He can be in conversation. Top 5 player of his time.

    I don't know why that's such an outrageous claim.
     
  7. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Becase that is. There are easily 5 people that are untouchable before him.
     
  8. MaxV Registered User

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    I said top 5 player of his time, heck he is top 3. It's Crosby, Ovechkin and him really. Unless you guys believe in this Toews bs.

    Name me another era in hockey where a top 3 player isn't considered an all-time great.

    I am firmly on the bandwagon of Soviet era players. They were far more team-first then modern Russian players. With that being said, these guys are amazing talents. Ovechkin and Malkin are both just freaks of nature. It would be wrong not to include them.
     
  9. MaxV Registered User

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    Since we are celebrating 70 years of Russian hockey, I wanted to make 4 teams worth of best players in Russian history:

    Makarov - Larionov - Krutov
    Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov
    Firsov - Fedorov - Bure
    Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Malkin

    Fetisov - Kasatonov
    Vasiliev - Zubov
    Ragulin - Gonchar

    Tretyak
    Bobrovskiy



    Bobrov - Maltsev - A. Yakushev
    Kovalchuk - Yashin - Mogilny
    Vikulov - Starshinov - V. Alexandrov
    Kovalev - Zhamnov - Kapustin

    Sologubov - Lutchenko
    A. Markov - Konstantinov
    Davydov - Ivanov

    Nabokov
    Khabibulin



    Khomutov - Bykov - Kamenskiy
    Loktev - Almetov - B. Mayorov
    Shalimov - Shadrin - Radulov
    S. Kozlov - Zhluktov - Semin

    Pervukhin - Bilyaletdinov
    Tregubov - Kuzkin
    Malakhov - Yushkevich

    Konovalenko
    Myshkin



    A. Golikov - V. Golikov - Drozdetskiy
    Tarasenko - Polupanov - Kucherov
    Panarin - Kuznetsov - Morozov
    V. Yakushev - Shepelev - Guryshev

    Gusev - Kravchuk
    B. Mironov - D. Mironov
    Gusarov - I. Nikulin

    Bryzgalov
    Varlamov
     
  10. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    That is a very complete list, as best I can tell. All the top players are there. Can't think of anyone who is left out.
     
  11. Caser @RUSProspects

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    I like the roster, but maybe I would add that usually in the Soviet goalie rankings Puchkov is being rated higher than Myshkin (some place Zinger over him too, btw), so I could think of him being a legit candidate for the all-time team over Myshkin/Varly/Bryz.
     
  12. MaxV Registered User

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    I considered Puchkov also. I know he is highly respected.

    Myshkin's main issue is that most of his career overlapped Tretyak's career. He was already 30 by the time Tretyak retired. But he was viewed highly during his time. Tikhonov certainly had confidence in him, more then any other Tretyak's backup.

    Bryz and Varly are both underrated. Bryzgalov has a signature performance for the NT when he stood on his head vs Canada at 2009 WC final. Varly, on another hand, has a Vezina-esque season.
     
  13. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    At the risk of being unfair overall, I thought that Myshkin was often the lone weakness on an otherwise nearly invincible team from 1985-89. He was known for his weakness at controlling rebounds, which really hurt the team in the 1987 Canada Cup and in many of the NHL Super Series games. He was good, but not shut down great, which limited the team's accomplishments to some degree.
     
  14. Caser @RUSProspects

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    Just I meant that Puchkov at this point is considered one of the all-time great and I had an impression that on the all-time Soviet goalie list he is considered as a more-or-less consensus #3 (probably not hands down though). To compare, Bryz had 3 or 4 good seasons in his career... I mean, is it good enough for the all-time list? Varly had 3 good seasons so far, and, although his career isn't over, I think it is a bit too early to rank him over someone with an all-time great reputation.
     
  15. MaxV Registered User

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    Who are some other names? I'm especially curious about Ds.

    Forwards were fairly easy to pick. Biggest decisions were the Khomutov-Bykov-Kamensky line vs Kovalev-Zhamnov-Kapustin for 'B' team, Zhluktov vs Polupanov vs Golikov for 'C' team and possible inclusion of either Afinogenov or Mozyakin (I just thought Morozov's play for NT tipped the scales in his favor).

    Goalies? Yeah, Puchkov is potentially the biggest snub. Shtalenkov has good history in NT uniform but meh NHL career. Mylnikov, Trefilov, Sokolov and others were starters simply because there were no one else. Modern KHL guys (Barulin, Yeryomenko and Koshechkin) showed some quality, but not enough. It's too early for Vasilevsky.

    Ds were much tougher. After Davydov it kind of gets murkier. I put Eduard Ivanov, but that's really more on reputation then career. He is viewed highly, but that's really based on a couple of seasons, not enough to be in the same tier as guys like Sologubov, Davydov, Konstantinov and Lutchenko. My last guy out was actually Yuri Liapkin, who might be underrated simply because he mishandled the puck at the worst possible time (last goal in Summit Series).
     
  16. Caser @RUSProspects

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    About the Ds, Starikov and Kasparaitis are the names I could think of from the top of my head.

    About the FWs, it's hard to tell without knowing the exact methodology. I mean, what is valued higher: peak/prime or longevity? NT or league performance? Kozlov Vs. Afinogenov debate is a classic example: Kozlov had a longevity in the league hockey, while peak Afinogenov, imo, was better and he was more useful for the NT.
     
  17. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Liapkin had unbelievable skills and a big body.
     
  18. MaxV Registered User

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    I've always wondered about Soviet club affiliations.

    Seems like CSKA organization had the most influential allies, which makes sense since its the army.

    But how come their results in futbol were so mediocre?

    You could make the case that their post-Soviet teams are significantly better.
     
  19. Caser @RUSProspects

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    The answer is actually already is in your question: it is the influence - football CSKA didn't have such an influence as hockey team had. For example, Dynamo Kiev didn't care if the army would want to get any Ukrainian footballer, as it was their "sphere of influence".
     
  20. MaxV Registered User

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    Zubov deservingly in HHOF.

    Mogilny will probably get in eventually. Hopefully others from Soviet era also.
     
    Exarz likes this.
  21. Pasha71 Registered User

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    As far as I know, Latvians played an important role in starting up the Soviet hockey program. Latvia did participate in international tournaments quite regularly (albeit not very successfully) between the World Wars, and Latvian annexation/occupation/incorporation into the USSR in 1940 did play a part.

    Dinamo Riga finished 4th in the first two Soviet championships, and then of course experienced resurgence in the 1970s under Tikhonov, which culminated in the 2nd place in 1988 under Yurzinov...
     

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