7 Members of the Core

[Tak7]

Winning cups is talent based. It's as simple as that. The teams with the best players win.

Not always.

It's the teams that get hot and are well coached that win in the Spring, not just the ones with the best players.

 

[Joey Hoser]

lol do people still listen to what McGuire has to say?

What a weird comment.

As if we are to scoff at a former NHL coach with a decade in the broadcasting business, yet listen to each other as know-nothing internet message board posters.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Not always.

It's the teams that get hot and are well coached that win in the Spring, not just the ones with the best players.

In the NHL today you need everything to go right to win a cup. You need talent, coaching, goaltending, chemistry, and yes, luck.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

So lets agree, there is a top end core, and a secondary core on contenders:

Top End Core: Nylander, Marner, Rielly, etc.
Chicago: Toews, Kane, Keith, etc.

Secondary Core: Kadri, Kapanen, Dermott, Nielsen, etc.
Chicago: Sharp, Hossa, Seabrook, Hjalmrsson, etc.

Now its about developing them into the best NHLers.

I guess this is a good response. Perhaps Hossa belongs in the Top End Core as well. Imagine a player that is equal or even better then Kessel offensively but who also get Selke votes for his defensive play, well that is Hossa. Now, he came to Chicago as a bit older and went from a 90-100 point player to a 60-70+ point player so he slowed down a bit. But he is still very much an elite player.

For us, Nylander, Rielly and Marner are natural born players. They got the skills you either have or you dont. The combination of skills, smarts and work rate is exceptional and I am close to 100% sure they will be our core players going forward. They all posses that wow factor and want and can be difference makers.

Kadri got the skills but lacks the smarts and work rate (in need of special attention). He do have grit and I think he is the kind of player who will shine more in the playoffs then the regular season. Worth keeping at the right price but not a core player.

JVR, got the wow factor but seem to unaware of the skills and physical tools that could separate him from being a mediocre top line player to become a bona fide star. Unsure but could become a secondary core player, like Sharp.

Kapanen has the skills, the work rate and the smarts to be a really good player. He just lacks that wow factor the core guys above have (positive signs from him stepping up his game in the U20´s however). But I reckon he will become as important for us as Hossa has been for Chicago. So I would say he could be regards as a Top End Core player for us at his peak but most likely will belong to the secondary core.

Dermott and Nielsen, to early to tell anything about them. One could add Percy, Loov, Valiev among others to this list. They got some nice potential but still has ways to go, hurdles to get over before they can be projected as future core players. But that is ok, we will have to surround our core players with good "depth" players as well.

 

[Dustin]

Not always.

It's the teams that get hot and are well coached that win in the Spring, not just the ones with the best players.

Not disagreeing about getting hot but without exceptional players you will never be in a position to get hot and make a difference.

 

[Dustin]

In the NHL today you need everything to go right to win a cup. You need talent, coaching, goaltending, chemistry, and yes, luck.

Yup. This. Formula or not, without even 1 of these you are not a cup winner and in most cases not even a cup contender.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Since the big lock out we have had 10 playoffs.

3 teams who lost in the finals have also been on the winning side since then. Boston, Pittsburgh and Detroit.

1 team, LA Kings has won the cup 2 times.

1 team, Chicago has won the cup 3 times.

In the last 6 years only 3 teams have won the cup.

I think it is safe to say it is about a bit more then just having skilled players, a hot goalie and some luck.

Clearly these teams have done something right, their teams are just a bit more balanced then others. Their kind of talented players produce when other teams talented players dont.

As a side note, Hossa has been to half of those finals. Winning 3 and losing 2. So what you need is Hossa. It is just simple maths.

 

[Tak7]

Not disagreeing about getting hot but without exceptional players you will never be in a position to get hot and make a difference.

If that was the case we wouldn't be having different cup finalists every year

 

[Joey Hoser]

If that was the case we wouldn't be having different cup finalists every year

Not sure how much that means. Teams not named the Blackhawks, Kings or Bruins haven't really stood much of a chance in the last 5-6 years.

Tampa and NYR are the only teams you could really be talking about here, and I sure didn't bet on them.

 

[Suntouchable13]

You do need exceptional players.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

You do need exceptional players.

That goes for more then half the league yet only 3 teams have won in the last 6 years. So you need a bit more then that. And it perhaps matter who really is an exceptional player, when it matters the most.

 

[Menzinger]

Since the big lock out we have had 10 playoffs.

3 teams who lost in the finals have also been on the winning side since then. Boston, Pittsburgh and Detroit.

1 team, LA Kings has won the cup 2 times.

1 team, Chicago has won the cup 3 times.

In the last 6 years only 3 teams have won the cup.

I think it is safe to say it is about a bit more then just having skilled players, a hot goalie and some luck.

Clearly these teams have done something right, their teams are just a bit more balanced then others. Their kind of talented players produce when other teams talented players dont.

As a side note, Hossa has been to half of those finals. Winning 3 and losing 2. So what you need is Hossa. It is just simple maths.

Though both the Hawks and Kings are built differently and play different styles.

The Hawks are a team whose strength has been mostly on the wing and play a finesse style of possession.

The Kings have stronger centres and possession game is centred on grinding.

They each have a ton of skill, excellent depth, and great coaching. I'd say they just have more of the first two things than other teams.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Though both the Hawks and Kings are built differently and play different styles.

The Hawks are a team whose strength has been mostly on the wing and play a finesse style of possession.

The Kings have stronger centres and possession game is centred on grinding.

They each have a ton of skill, excellent depth, and great coaching. I'd say they just have more of the first two things than other teams.

What you can say about the cup winning Kings and Chicago teams is that

1: They where lead by a legit #1 2-way center. Not that flashy but damn solid and hard working.

2: With just one or two exceptions their forwards where great 2-way players. Williams, Carter, Sharp, Hossa etc.

3: Their D was kept together as much as possible. 5 out of 6 on the D that won the cup for LA in -12 was on the team when they won in -14.
Chicago has has the same top 3 on D for all their cup wins, same top 4 for the their last 2 (Oduya).

What makes them different is that LA does not have any one like Kane. They did get good use out of Gaborik who had a Kane like playoffs but not really the same.

 

[Menzinger]

Another common denominator for recent cup winners is that their goalies don't make big money.

6/18 recent cup finalists had goalies that we're getting paid 4 million or more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-most-goalies/article24058773/?service=mobile

 

[pgk]

So I was listening to TSN 1050 earlier this week and Pierre Mcguire was talking

I found the problem

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

So I was listening to TSN 1050 earlier this week and Pierre Mcguire was talking about the 7-player core you need in order to be a true contender. The make up of this core was:

- elite goaltender
- shutdown defence man
- puck moving defence man
- defensive center
- #1 centerman
- #2 centerman
- power forward

Which of the current leaf players and prospects do you think can fit into this 7-player core? Keep in mind all these players have to be top players in these positions.


I could start with:

Goalie: No one. Maybe Sparks/Bibeau. Too early to tell.
Shutdown Defensemen: No one.
Puck Moving Defence man: Rielly.
Defensive Center: Gauthier
#1 Center: Nylander
#2 Center: Kadri
Powerforward: JVR.

You may right and MacQuire may be right this time, but please don't believe what these talking entertainers have to say. They don't believe most of it themselves.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

You just need four principle players and goaltending. We're not there yet, need these kids to pan out. Also people forget that coaching is a strong point for every cup winner, both Quenneville/Sutter are really good coaches.

 

[New Liskeard]

Another common denominator for recent cup winners is that their goalies don't make big money.

6/18 recent cup finalists had goalies that we're getting paid 4 million or more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-most-goalies/article24058773/?service=mobile

Crawford in Chicago makes more than that, as does Quick.

 

[Purity*]

What you can say about the cup winning Kings and Chicago teams is that

1: They where lead by a legit #1 2-way center. Not that flashy but damn solid and hard working.

2: With just one or two exceptions their forwards where great 2-way players. Williams, Carter, Sharp, Hossa etc.

3: Their D was kept together as much as possible. 5 out of 6 on the D that won the cup for LA in -12 was on the team when they won in -14.
Chicago has has the same top 3 on D for all their cup wins, same top 4 for the their last 2 (Oduya).

What makes them different is that LA does not have any one like Kane. They did get good use out of Gaborik who had a Kane like playoffs but not really the same.

Carter was godlike in LA's last cup run, he got it done on both sides of the ice and matched Kane every step of the way in the LA-CHI series.

Their brutal physical game creates lots of time and space for their scoring forwards. In their 2012 run the Brown-Kopi-Williams line literally did whatever they pleased, in their first series they brutalized Vancouver's d-men along the boards and in front of the net.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You do need exceptional players.

no. johnny_rudeboy just said it. you need Hossa

 

[Menzinger]

Crawford in Chicago makes more than that, as does Quick.

Though each won their first cup while they made under 4 million.

And interestingly Quicks playoff performance on his more expensive contract was far less impressive than during his first cup run.

 

[figure]

Carter was godlike in LA's last cup run, he got it done on both sides of the ice and matched Kane every step of the way in the LA-CHI series.

Their brutal physical game creates lots of time and space for their scoring forwards. In their 2012 run the Brown-Kopi-Williams line literally did whatever they pleased, in their first series they brutalized Vancouver's d-men along the boards and in front of the net.

He wasn't comparing Kane to Carter like you decided to rebuke here. He was simply saying LA doesn't have a Kane type player, but still got the job done. Meaning, you don't need a Kane in your core to win it all, like some people have begun to believe.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

You may right and MacQuire may be right this time, but please don't believe what these talking entertainers have to say. They don't believe most of it themselves.

The 7 player profile is an easy catch phrase and simply concept to understand and explain to an audience.

However, McGuire and any fan who really thinks about it intelligently realizes that it's a general guideline and not a hard rule.

 

[1AM]

No matter how good your team is if you don't have a goalie who is top 10 in the NHL you won't win the SC. And the Leafs don't have one, or have a prospect in the system

No, but they do have one in the Top 2

and they always had, just too much smoke

Cheers to James!!

Go Leafs Go

 

[Dustin]

The reason I dislike this line of reasoning is that I feel it over simplifies what is required to win cups let alone multiple cups. When you look at teams who win, it is a 23 man roster that gets it done. It doesn't mean that some of those players are not replaceable but whoever replaces them will need to put in the same effort as those that left. Things like depth, consistency and luck play huge roles in the playoffs.

When I say the teams with the best players win, what I am referring to is that the upper echelon of the NHL are the teams that almost always compete for the cup. Those teams are generally speaking laden with talent and in numerous positions. That's not to discredit the importance of specific positions in the NHL, mainly Defense and Center. Due to the importance of those positions teams are always on the lookout for great Centers and great Defencemen so that is no way a defining reason why you can't win a cup. That may be a defining reason that your team is rebuilding however.

If you take a team like the Leafs, they are not just in need of a 1 or 2 positions to be bolstered but will need exceptional talent in numerous positions and will need depth in the organization to be able to make a long playoff push. That's a ways away from where we are today.

On top of all of that you need a capable front office that will be able to put together a system that will let you compete on the ice. Plus a GM that will be able to take calculated risks when the time is needed. If all you have us "core" pieces and none of the other things you can still very well be a bottom feeder for years.