Post-Game Talk: #63 | FLYERS 1 at Canadiens 0 (2-1 in 6-round SO) | Mon., Feb. 26, 2018, 7:30 pm ET

[Winston Wolf]

The Flyers didn’t let Weal become a UFA. He became one by league rules. He was a Group IV UFA.


The Flyers could do with Mrazek what they did with Mason though. Mason signed a one year deal at $1.5M beforehand instead of having the Flyers use the QO on him. But he was set to be an RFA after it anyway even with the QO since they’re one year deals. Mrazek will be UFA after this next season so he does have a bit more leverage than Mason did back then. Perhaps they sign him to a two year deal in the $3M per year range.

True, what I meant was they let him reach UFA due to the expansion draft. I'm sure that they would have signed him before even reaching UFA, but waiting until after the expansion draft allowed them to not worry about Vegas selecting him. I'm sure they probably had some kind of handshake agreement, barring him being blown away by an offer in UFA.

And yeah, I guess I'm forgetting that Mrazek can agree to lower than his QO beforehand. I'm still operating under the thinking of his relationship in Detroit where there was no chance he was taking less because of his experience there. But yeah, if they could agree to that deal, I'd be very happy.

 

[deadhead]

However, Sanheim has gone back to the AHL and been given massive offensive opportunities and a big role in all three phases of the game... and Hextall said after Oduya claim that they had Sanheim in minors who they knew could play in NHL.

Laughton was banned from the PP to focus just on D. How they have been treated has been very, very different.

I mean, when the timespan is considered if it was Hextall's choice 100% he must have argued with himself internally for like ~10 days... wasting both his and Sanheim's time.

They're treated differently b/c they project to different NHL roles.
Laughton's future is as a forechecking center or a third line LW, and he needed to play better defense.

Hextall sees Sanheim as a top 4 defenseman, and given that Hakstol has put Provorov and Ghost together and has pretty much allowed them to freelance (within limits, but they're playing very aggressively, maybe too aggressively) I don't think there was ever any attempt to "suppress" Sanheim's offensive repertoire.

But both Hextall and Hakstol stress two way play and playing within the scheme, and I thought Sanheim looked tentative and unsure, which is usually a sign a player isn't mentally ready (if you have to think on the ice, you're in trouble).

So his big role in the AHL makes sense, that's the role they want him to play in the NHL.
Given how awkward Provorov looks on the 2nd PP, I think they'll want him to play there as well.
It's not punishment, if he doesn't come back up this year, I'm sure he's slotted into the 2nd pair next fall.

 

[hayen]

Hextall made a strategic decision not to invest assets into building veteran depth, so we've had four years of scrubs, bought on the cheap, and the residue of Holmgren's strip mining the talent pipeline.

Next year, Sanheim and Morin will be up, Myers will be right behind them, and Friedman should be ready by 2019-20.
Same at forward, Lindblom is up, NAK should be close behind, followed by MV and Vorobyev. By 2019-20, guys like Rubtsov, maybe Allison, etc. will have an AHL season under their belts and if they do well, be pushing for 4th line jobs.

So the parade of scrubs is almost over.
Which is why I don't get uptight about it, I saw this two years ago. Hextall has been totally transparent in this regard.
Hextall has made it clear he has a long-term plan, and part of it is patiently developing prospects so they hit the ground running.
We're seeing that right now with Lindblom, who looks like he belongs on the 2nd line.

I agree with most of what is said but I am concerned that the clock is ticking. I would like to have G as a leader and if Simmer and Jake are in the mix then again the clock is ticking. At some point tough decisions will have to be made if we are going to make a run and many GM's would see our next year or two as our window to add support to be a cup chhallenger.

 

[SchatzY]

They're treated differently b/c they project to different NHL roles.
Laughton's future is as a forechecking center or a third line LW, and he needed to play better defense.

Hextall sees Sanheim as a top 4 defenseman, and given that Hakstol has put Provorov and Ghost together and has pretty much allowed them to freelance (within limits, but they're playing very aggressively, maybe too aggressively) I don't think there was ever any attempt to "suppress" Sanheim's offensive repertoire.

But both Hextall and Hakstol stress two way play and playing within the scheme, and I thought Sanheim looked tentative and unsure, which is usually a sign a player isn't mentally ready (if you have to think on the ice, you're in trouble).

So his big role in the AHL makes sense, that's the role they want him to play in the NHL.
Given how awkward Provorov looks on the 2nd PP, I think they'll want him to play there as well.
It's not punishment, if he doesn't come back up this year, I'm sure he's slotted into the 2nd pair next fall.

Yes but he could and should be in that role here now. If utilized correctly I personally would have attached Sanheim to Provo for a month or two while putting Gudas in the defensive role when the time called for it. Provo is definitely good enough to carry Sanheim defensively until he figured it out. Then around Dec. he would have been slid down with Gudas as a legit second pairing while getting PP2 time.

 

[Striiker]

Two of those have to do with religion, which is about as far from common sense as it can get, and the first hasn't been true since people were still ****ting in holes in the ground.

I feel like it might be a bit easier to comment on hockey, given the amount of video proof and statistics we have to look at, than to figure out if the Earth is round, based on what they had available to them at that time.

Imagine using that type of argument.

“Sanheim isn’t NHL ready”

“You can’t say that because at one time people thought photographs would steal your soul.”

 

[Foggy14]

Speaking of photographs, I enjoyed this one from last night when Ghost went UFC again and Provy looked on in horror.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yes but he could and should be in that role here now. If utilized correctly I personally would have attached Sanheim to Provo for a month or two while putting Gudas in the defensive role when the time called for it. Provo is definitely good enough to carry Sanheim defensively until he figured it out. Then around Dec. he would have been slid down with Gudas as a legit second pairing while getting PP2 time.

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

 

[The Rage Kage]

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

Developing Sanheim will help win more games now and in the future than playing manning

 

[Starat327]

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

I have a hard time believing Hextall was threatening Hakstols job on the premise of winning every game when Hextall himself had just traded a first line winger for futures.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nor is it right most of the time. There's a reason it's called "common" sense.

At one time it was common sense that the earth was flat, that disease was caused by evil spirits, that witches existed (they burnt like a million of them in the Middle Ages) . . .

Your opinions on Sanheim resemble the primitive theories you mention.

 

[deadhead]

I agree with most of what is said but I am concerned that the clock is ticking. I would like to have G as a leader and if Simmer and Jake are in the mix then again the clock is ticking. At some point tough decisions will have to be made if we are going to make a run and many GM's would see our next year or two as our window to add support to be a cup chhallenger.

2019-20 ages:
Giroux (32) - Couts (27) - Konecny (23)
Lindblom (23) - Patrick (21) - Voracek (30)
Laughton (25) - Frost (20) - NAK (23)
Rubtsov (21) - Vorobyev (23) - Allison (21)

Provorov (23) - Ghost (26)
Sanheim (23) - Myers (23)
Morin (24) - Friedman (24)
Hagg (25)

Hart (21) - Mrazek (28) - Sandstrom (23)

I dunno, when the oldest projected player is a potential HOF guy and only 32, I'd say the window will be wide open.
Not to mention the AHL team will be absolutely loaded, and we'll have 3 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks from the 2018 and 2019 drafts in the pipeline.
Plus whatever we get if we trade Simmonds.

 

[SchatzY]

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

I agree. I'm very pleasantly surprised where the flyers are sitting and make some noise in the play-offs, but I just don't see it happening with the D we have now. Who know if we gave Sanheim as actual shot. If I recall correctly he partner was A-Mac who is a career 5/6 guy. If your going to get on the job training wouldn't you have your best D-man shelter you instated of him?

I guess the best way to sum it up is

 

[Magua]

Speaking of photographs, I enjoyed this one from last night when Ghost went UFC again and Provy looked on in horror.

Ivan’s internal monologue:

“Shayne, you are my life partner. Please don’t get hurt. Let Manning fight; he’s the plug. I don’t want to be with Mac or Hagger again. Dear god never again. I need youuuuuuu.”

 

[Striiker]

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

And if he, or anyone else, thinks that Manning gives them a better chance to win games right now, then that person hasn’t been paying attention.

There isn’t a single helpful aspect of hockey that Manning is better at than Sanheim.

 

[Starat327]

And if he, or anyone else, thinks that Manning gives them a better chance to win games right now, then that person hasn’t been paying attention.

There isn’t a single helpful aspect of hockey that Manning is better at than Sanheim.

Wrong. Manning is better at getting his face punched in. And committing dumb penalties for suspensions.

 

[Striiker]

Wrong. Manning is better at getting his face punched in. And committing dumb penalties for suspensions.

This is why I specifically added the word “helpful”.

I knew I’d get a response like this.

 

[Starat327]

This is why I specifically added the word “helpful”.

I knew I’d get a response like this.

Manning getting suspended means he cant play. That's helpful, no?

 

[hayen]

2019-20 ages:
Giroux (32) - Couts (27) - Konecny (23)
Lindblom (23) - Patrick (21) - Voracek (30)
Laughton (25) - Frost (20) - NAK (23)
Rubtsov (21) - Vorobyev (23) - Allison (21)

Provorov (23) - Ghost (26)
Sanheim (23) - Myers (23)
Morin (24) - Friedman (24)
Hagg (25)

Hart (21) - Mrazek (28) - Sandstrom (23)

I dunno, when the oldest projected player is a potential HOF guy and only 32, I'd say the window will be wide open.
Not to mention the AHL team will be absolutely loaded, and we'll have 3 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks from the 2018 and 2019 drafts in the pipeline.
Plus whatever we get if we trade Simmonds.

I notice Simmonds is not in your chart. You believe trade is his future?

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, I don't think Simmonds is a great fit going forward, and he'll be a 31 year old extension at a high cost for a 31 year old line RW.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

So Hextall sent Sanheim down because HE didn’t think he was ready and thought he needed more AHL time?

That makes no sense.

If that were true, he wouldn’t have sat for like two weeks.

He stayed up because Hextall wanted him in the lineup but Hakstol wouldn’t play him. Sanheim only got sent down because Hextall didn’t want him to sit any longer and Hakstol proved he wasn’t going to change his mind.

shame Hexy didnt keep Sanhiem up and send Haktard down instead

 

[BernieParent]

Two of those have to do with religion, which is about as far from common sense as it can get, and the first hasn't been true since people were still ****ting in holes in the ground.

 

[BernieParent]

OK good, just wanted to be sure. My responses have very different tones depending on who I'm responding to, but obviously that can sometimes get mixed up through text.

I do agree with a lot of what you said, especially about being able to enjoy the wins and be annoyed with some things at the same time. Too often I've seen some people act like anyone who has complaints after wins must also be unhappy that the team is winning... which is, of course, ridiculous.

Some things I obviously do disagree with, though. Like where you said you're "comfortable with these spots in the roster being filled with Hagg / Manning / MacDonald as part of the process of filling the D line-up to its full glory".

I'm patient about a lot of things, but this is something that I don't have much patience for, since it could so easily be upgraded right this very second, for free. If there legitimately no other option, watching these three turds would really suck... but it would at least be understandable. But that's not the case here, since we already have a superior, NHL-ready defensemen in the AHL. I also 100% believe that Morin and Myers would be an upgrade on the other two, but I'm not impatient with their current situation because Morin is hurt and Myers is best off finishing the year in the AHL. It's not even about Sanheim, specifically, for me. It's just knowing that the team is playing this good, but could still easily be further improved. That's where my frustration comes from.

But even worse is that - even if Hextall dumps a lot of the junk on the roster - Hakstol's proven to have poor decision making skills, and that won't magically change with an improved roster. Even if he has less pairs of scissors to run with, it's still possible that he'll find ways to cause damage by not putting the proper players in proper positions.

I learned a long time ago that inferring tone in written text is usually way off.

I do see, though, that I need to make an additional clarification: there are not enough top-quality prospects to supplement all 7 defense positions on the Flyers, particularly with Morin out with a broken everything. So even having Sanheim on the Flyers would still require 2 defensemen, of whom 2 of the 3 current spot holders are sufficient in the interim. In this very particular and time-limited scenario, I would be comfortable with 2 of the 3.

That being said, I hear you about Hakstol's penchant for playing the LCDs higher up than where they should be. He seems to have a continental drift-speed adaptation to the bleedin' obvious.

 

[BernieParent]

It is often overlooked that until very recently the Flyers were fighting for their playoff lives. Hakstol's #1 job was to win each game, not to develop Sanheim.

Yeah, I can imagine the off-season conversation between Hakstol and Hextall: "Dave, you have every roster player you need to win everything this season, after I brought in among the most mediocre veteran goaltender available for under $3 million. Your job depends on total success, and I am not giving you a single recommendation on roster decisions. Oh, and I traded Schenn for two draft picks and the statistically worst forward in the NHL."

 

[BernieParent]

This is why I specifically added the word “helpful”.

I knew I’d get a response like this.

I knew you would downplay the GFPI and GFPIrel/60 advanced stat.

 

[Striiker]

I knew you would downplay the GFPI and GFPIrel/60 advanced stat.

You’re gonna make me ask what that is?