Post-Game Talk: #52 | Islanders at Flyers | February 6, 2023 |

[flyersnorth]

Tippett, Konecny, and Cates were easily their three best players. (And Hart.)

They were buzzing all game.

Frost and Farabee were easily kept to the perimeter and of no threat, which tends to happen against strong, defensively sound opponents.

Farabee in an interesting case. He's on his third straight year of declining production (0.69 / 0.53 / 0.48 PPG). Maybe part of it can be attributed to his surgery. He just doesn't look as dynamic and creative as in past years - or maybe I'm misremembering. Either way, his declining rate of production is odd and, in what I've noticed, his game has just kind of faded into the background.

Sanheim -- I don't know what the hell happened to him, but he's a shell of the player he was for much of last season. In a season where almost everyone else has improved, his lapse into mediocrity stands out.

Eight more years through 2031!

All in all, though, I enjoyed most of the game - tuned out at some point in the 3rd.

Currently the Flyers would pick 10th. I don't think the Flyers will finish any worse than 8th from the bottom. They are also just 3 points away from being out of the lottery altogether.

I do enjoy Torts, and seeing some of the young guys find their groove, but that would be the worst case scenario for this season - a missed opportunity to draft an impact player near the top of the draft.

 

[Curufinwe]

Great result. Keep those losses coming, guys.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They were buzzing all game.



Farabee in an interesting case. He's on his third straight year of declining production (0.69 / 0.53 / 0.48 PPG). Maybe part of it can be attributed to his surgery. He just doesn't look as dynamic and creative as in past years - or maybe I'm misremembering. Either way, his declining rate of production is odd and, in what I've noticed, his game has just kind of faded into the background.



Eight more years through 2031!

All in all, though, I enjoyed most of the game - tuned out at some point in the 3rd.

Currently the Flyers would pick 10th. I don't think the Flyers will finish any worse than 8th from the bottom. They are also just 3 points away from being out of the lottery altogether.

I do enjoy Torts, and seeing some of the young guys find their groove, but that would be the worst case scenario for this season - a missed opportunity to draft an impact player near the top of the draft.

View attachment 646764

Farabee stagnating is certainly not a surprise to me. They're more likely trying to grow his bench press more than his skills.

 

[Curufinwe]

Farabee in an interesting case. He's on his third straight year of declining production (0.69 / 0.53 / 0.48 PPG). Maybe part of it can be attributed to his surgery. He just doesn't look as dynamic and creative as in past years - or maybe I'm misremembering. Either way, his declining rate of production is odd and, in what I've noticed, his game has just kind of faded into the background.

Farabee's overall production is lower the past two seasons mainly due to very poor production on the powerplay. This season he has one PP point in 114:17 TOI. By way of comparison, Tippett has 6 PPP in 112:51.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

2021: 2.7 ESP/60, 3.79 PPP/60

21-22: 2.08 ESP/60, 1.15 PPP/60

22-23: 1.96 ESP/60, 0.52 PPP/60

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They were buzzing all game.



Farabee in an interesting case. He's on his third straight year of declining production (0.69 / 0.53 / 0.48 PPG). Maybe part of it can be attributed to his surgery. He just doesn't look as dynamic and creative as in past years - or maybe I'm misremembering. Either way, his declining rate of production is odd and, in what I've noticed, his game has just kind of faded into the background.



Eight more years through 2031!

All in all, though, I enjoyed most of the game - tuned out at some point in the 3rd.

Currently the Flyers would pick 10th. I don't think the Flyers will finish any worse than 8th from the bottom. They are also just 3 points away from being out of the lottery altogether.

I do enjoy Torts, and seeing some of the young guys find their groove, but that would be the worst case scenario for this season - a missed opportunity to draft an impact player near the top of the draft.

View attachment 646764

Farabee just can't get to high-danger areas with the puck.

He's not fast enough to blow past guys, he's not strong enough with the puck to go through guys.

Almost inevitably, Farabee ends up overhandling the puck on the perimeter trying to create a play and then turning it over.

And he seems invisible on the boards, which is where he was surprisingly effective his first couple of seasons despite average size.

I'll chalk up the latter, I suppose, to the shoulder and neck injuries and subsequent disc replacement surgery.

Hopefully he gets his strength back next season, because his NHL game is not as a playmaker with the puck.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Agree on Tip - he was moving quite well out there in the 2/3rd periods. JvR looked fine, most of those types of chances are not converted. They're converted at ~20% rate. It's really hard to score goals in the NHL. I think the fact that he was in the right places at the right time shows his timing wasn't really off, it is just a bit of statistical bad luck.

Also, I'm not going to pretend Frost and Farabee had a good game, they didn't, but that happens. And you're comments about Frost being kept to the perimeter against 'good defensive teams' isn't accurate. It's just your bias.

Frost's ES shot and shot attempts this year. Many of those shots are against, Boston, Dallas, WPG, FL, TB, CAR, Min. etc.

View attachment 646747

Farabee's ES Shot Chart:

View attachment 646748

This is a bit concerning, given his TOI and the fact that he's played a lot with TK... But he's also played a lot with Cates, who's been somewhat of a offensive black hole, particularly in playmaking/passing area. As I've said all year, I do wonder what a Farabee-Frost-TK line would be able to do offensively, if given an opportunity.

Did you not see Frost, then, kept to the perimeter all of last night against the Isles? Did I make that up?

Did you not see a carbon copy just a few games ago against Minnesota? I sure did.

Two similar big, strong, defensive teams.

And it's not new. Against that type of team and opponent, Frost struggles to penetrate with the puck. He doesn't have this problem anymore against the Arizonas and Anaheims of the league.

And I'm not sure what you think showing a season-total shot chart proves. For one, I'm talking about his carrying of the puck. For two, the chart isn't broken down by opponent.

I pointed out Farabee as having the same perimeter problems. This isn't about singling Frost, but identifying an issue the Flyers face against better teams. This contrasts with a player like Tippett, whose game doesn't change at all against better defensive opponents, which is a good sign.

 

[flyersnorth]

Farabee's overall production is lower the past two seasons mainly due to very poor production on the powerplay. This season he has one PP point in 114:17 TOI. By way of comparison, Tippett has 6 PPP in 112:51.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

2021: 2.7 ESP/60, 3.79 PPP/60

21-22: 2.08 ESP/60, 1.15 PPP/60

22-23: 1.96 ESP/60, 0.52 PPP/60

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

Yikes. That is a precipitous drop on the PP. But the ES drop is probably more significant because there are way more minutes played at ES.

Of course, playing with guys like G, Jake, Coots will certainly help your production along. Could just be a lull while we get this whole top-level talent thing sorted out.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Did you not see Frost, then, kept to the perimeter all of last night against the Isles? Did I make that up?

I think you did because in the two periods I watched I saw him carry the puck up the middle of the ice and into the zone by himself three times (and then have no one to pass to once there).

 

[Curufinwe]

The 2nd PP unit is a complete disaster again.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did you not see Frost, then, kept to the perimeter all of last night against the Isles? Did I make that up?

Did you not see a carbon copy just a few games ago against Minnesota? I sure did.

Two similar big, strong, defensive teams.

And it's not new. Against that type of team and opponent, Frost struggles to penetrate with the puck. He doesn't have this problem anymore against the Arizonas and Anaheims of the league.

And I'm not sure what you think showing a season-total shot chart proves. For one, I'm talking about his carrying of the puck. For two, the chart isn't broken down by opponent.

I pointed out Farabee as having the same perimeter problems. This isn't about singling Frost, but identifying an issue the Flyers face against better teams. This contrasts with a player like Tippett, whose game doesn't change at all against better defensive opponents, which is a good sign.

You certainly made up the "Frost is a perimeter player" nonsense.

You're not right about Farabee either.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think you did because in the two periods I watched I saw him carry the puck up the middle of the ice and into the zone by himself three times (and then have no one to pass to once there).

Prepare for heavy backpedaling.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Great result. Keep those losses coming, guys.

yea it was a good eve. in the standings... all the right teams got points

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think you did because in the two periods I watched I saw him carry the puck up the middle of the ice and into the zone by himself three times (and then have no one to pass to once there).

When did he get anywhere with the puck? That's my entire point. He was easily kept to non-threatening areas all night. Couldn't penetrate into danger areas with the puck whatsoever. Contrast that with Tippett, who actually sliced into the defense when he had the puck.

 

[BernieParent]

Skulks about.

Are you saying that Fletcher is a fun guy?

 

[kudymen]

I do not care about the result nor about the points. I am impressed. I have been very pleased with the effort. I have been very pleased with the drive. I have been very pleased with the hunger. (tm)

 

[Beef Invictus]

When did he get anywhere with the puck? That's my entire point. He was easily kept to non-threatening areas all night. Couldn't penetrate into danger areas with the puck whatsoever. Contrast that with Tippett, who actually sliced into the defense when he had the puck.

He somehow sliced in for an in-close shot despite you claiming that did not happen whatsoever.

Meanwhile Tippett managed to produce a whopping one more shot:

Just out of curiosity, you understand that playmakers tend to be dishing in from out, right? One would expect and hope that guys like Tippett and JVR are busy around the net and typically you'd be expecting guys like Frost to be setting them up. Setups don't usually happen from in the slot. Go on NST and check out these maps for playmakers with far more pedigree than Frost's; they routinely look the same.

Sure seems like you're just biased against Frost and are desperate to find anything to whine about, just like you used to do for Ghost. Your pre-determined and unreasonable agenda drives what you happen to see during games instead of letting what plays out inform your opinion.

 

[deadhead]

Yikes. That is a precipitous drop on the PP. But the ES drop is probably more significant because there are way more minutes played at ES.

Of course, playing with guys like G, Jake, Coots will certainly help your production along. Could just be a lull while we get this whole top-level talent thing sorted out.

Farabee is more of a complementary winger, he'd be better with a better center.
But his real problem was the neck surgery, he likes to go to dirty areas, but to be effective there you need strength b/c people are going to challenge you and try to knock you off the puck.
He actually looks weaker than last season, because he had no chance to rebuild strength before the season and missed TC.

I'd give him a mulligan for this season, scoring at a 2.06/60 (5x5) pace puts him 83rd among all forwards.
Which ain't bad for any 22 year old forward, much less one coming off major surgery.
Though it's a bit inflated due to a high rate of secondary assists.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It should probably be pointed out that Frost spent the most time playing against Barzal line, while Tippett faced off against the Brock Nelson line. I bet that had some impact on the night.

 

[Curufinwe]

But his real problem was the neck surgery, he likes to go to dirty areas, but to be effective there you need strength b/c people are going to challenge you and try to knock you off the puck.

If that's the problem, how is he scoring at a much better rate at ES than on the PP where there's much more space on the PP?

 

[Rebels57]

Are you saying that Fletcher is a fun guy?

Big Papa Pun strikes again

 

[JXC]

Did you not see Frost, then, kept to the perimeter all of last night against the Isles? Did I make that up?

Did you not see a carbon copy just a few games ago against Minnesota? I sure did.

Two similar big, strong, defensive teams.

And it's not new. Against that type of team and opponent, Frost struggles to penetrate with the puck. He doesn't have this problem anymore against the Arizonas and Anaheims of the league.

And I'm not sure what you think showing a season-total shot chart proves. For one, I'm talking about his carrying of the puck. For two, the chart isn't broken down by opponent.

I pointed out Farabee as having the same perimeter problems. This isn't about singling Frost, but identifying an issue the Flyers face against better teams. This contrasts with a player like Tippett, whose game doesn't change at all against better defensive opponents, which is a good sign.

Konecny was weak along the boards and limited to perimeter play for a while too, hopefully Farabee and Frost will make that leap like TK has and not regress and shrink in the trenches like Gostisbehere did.

All that said, talent opens things up and the Flyers ain’t got it yet, not deep enough.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Konecny was weak along the boards and limited to perimeter play for a while too, hopefully Farabee and Frost will make that leap like TK has and not regress and shrink in the trenches like Gostisbehere did.

All that said, talent opens things up and the Flyers ain’t got it yet, not deep enough.

Agreed. It’s a work in progress. You hope they take that next step with experience.

 

[Curufinwe]

Lol, trenches.

Frost and Farabee won't crack 50 points in a season the way Ghost has done multiple times if the Flyers powerplay remains at the bottom of the league, which is where it's been since the genius GM traded Ghost and Voracek.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

134 games at .418 (29th)

PP% 13.9 (32nd)
Net PP% 10.1 (32nd)

 

[Beef Invictus]

I remember being mocked for doubting the "very bright" Rocky Thompson would fix the PP.

Wonder what happens first, Rocky fixing the PP or Gordon getting that next NHL shot?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The trenches? Are we talking about the Super Bowl?