Post-Game Talk: 5 Mins 4 Ftg needs a new friend, Oilers need a new goalie

[Drivesaitl]

This is something that a lot of sports fans don't understand - just gaining muscle doesn't mean the muscle is useful. Basically Skinner has been gaining muscle mass at the same rate you'd expect a body builder whose purposefully just focusing on muscle would be.

That means he's building mass, but he's likely not putting the work in to unlock the potential of those new muscle fibres.

You see it a lot in powerlifting - guys will get sucked into bulking a lot and gaining tons of muscle using nearly strict hypertrophic ideals, and that is great for cultivating mass. But if you don't train those muscles for strength or speed, you just have a bunch of useless muscle. Often times fellows that abandon powerlifting for a year or two for body building and then go back to providing powerlifting afterwards will have like 15-20 lbs more muscle but actually lift less than they could before.

I spent too much time in Gyms. I know. Thankfully I avoided the steroid stuff and singular pursuit of selective muscle mass. Always wanted to work out with respect to increasing life ability, basic physical ability including strength and endurance but not limited to..

"Fitness clubs" can often be a misnomer.

Excellent bolded point.

Hockey is a weird pro sport in that its still the abode of some backyard fitness and training advice. Its not as much a sweet science as in Boxing for instance where every bit of training has a defined and learned purpose. In hockey training it seems trends and joe guy type advice still seems to have too much a place in things. In other sports players would be given some fairly specific offseason training expectations. This exists on some clubs in NHL but I think its still the exception.

With hockey things like Power skating and skating skills are all well taught but the workout stuff, seems not as much. or its from people that hold their own workout regimen bias and not always specifically catered to hockey.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Adin Hill was playing on the freaking Arizona Coyotes and San Jose Sharks at that age, I doubt Skinner would have had those numbers on team's that bad.

.918 Arizona (age 23)
.913 Arizona (age 24)
.906 San Jose (age 25)

Is not that bad for a terrible Coyotes and Sharks teams that are not even trying to win games.

Skinner has what? An .885 this year behind a team that's supposed to be a contender for a Cup? You think he'd put up great numbers in Phoenix or San Jose? Really?

Hill's comparable may be more Linus Ullmark. He had respectable numbers on some really bad teams before going to a really good team and breaking out fully.

Bingo. It's hilarious to compare them. What Hill did is incredible compared to Skinner.

 

[gordonhught]

They do. What you say is tier 6.

Ceci got caught puck watching

Disagree. I had kids play from tier 5 to AA and AAA.

The AAA kids even did cones and crossovers. I’m not sure what type of hockey you are talking about.

 

[ZJuice]

ehhhehehehe

 

[Drivesaitl]

Connor Ingram was an .879 goalie at 24. Then went .907 and now .923.

Blackwood was an .892 goalie at 24 then an .893, and now looks good on a crappy Sharks team at .900

Aidan Hills story isn’t unique. 24-25ish is still young for goalies.

Is this really the case now?

I accept that it used to be to some extent. But in a 32 team league it seems goalies are getting quicker looks than they used to and also quicker that teams take a look, and look away. I think its the amount of teams and cap that has an effect.

Of course theres a dozen or even 15 established vets in league but after that often seems like a revolving door. Plus goalies seem inordinately involved in trades. Hard position to be. Not for the feint of heart.

 

[iCanada]

I spent too much time in Gyms. I know. Thankfully I avoided the steroid stuff and singular pursuit of selective muscle mass. Always wanted to work out with respect to increasing life ability, basic physical ability including strength and endurance but not limited to..

"Fitness clubs" can often be a misnomer.

Excellent bolded point.

Hockey is a weird pro sport in that its still the abode of some backyard fitness and training advice. Its not as much a sweet science as in Boxing for instance where every bit of training has a defined and learned purpose. In hockey training it seems trends and joe guy type advice still seems to have too much a place in things. In other sports players would be given some fairly specific offseason training expectations. This exists on some clubs in NHL but I think its still the exception.

With hockey things like Power skating and skating skills are all well taught but the workout stuff, seems not as much. or its from people that hold their own workout regimen bias and not always specifically catered to hockey.

I'm not going to lie, reading that Skinner has the same training modality that I do is straight up terrifying given that my goals are literally completely antithetical to his...

I want to lift something as heavy as possible up once, speed and flexibility be damned. He wants to lift basically nothing for like an hour and a half, and it's all about speed and flexibility.... Strength be damned.

It's... Interesting. That's for sure.

 

[MoontoScott]

I spent too much time in Gyms. I know. Thankfully I avoided the steroid stuff and singular pursuit of selective muscle mass. Always wanted to work out with respect to increasing life ability, basic physical ability including strength and endurance but not limited to..

"Fitness clubs" can often be a misnomer.

Excellent bolded point.

Hockey is a weird pro sport in that its still the abode of some backyard fitness and training advice. Its not as much a sweet science as in Boxing for instance where every bit of training has a defined and learned purpose. In hockey training it seems trends and joe guy type advice still seems to have too much a place in things. In other sports players would be given some fairly specific offseason training expectations. This exists on some clubs in NHL but I think its still the exception.

With hockey things like Power skating and skating skills are all well taught but the workout stuff, seems not as much. or its from people that hold their own workout regimen bias and not always specifically catered to hockey.

It had nothing to do with life ability or strength and endurance. It was just to meet chicks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It had nothing to do with life ability or strength and endurance. It was just to meet chicks.

Promise you don't tell my wife.

 

[MoontoScott]

Promise you don't tell my wife.

She was at the same gym so she already knows what you were like. Married you anyway I guess.

 

[Drivesaitl]

She was at the same gym so she already knows what you were like. Married you anyway I guess.

jk. We're both faithful sorts, at least she says so. haha We have a rule that the eyes can wander but not the hands or other body parts...

 

[Evil__Homer]

Sorry but Skinner sucks. At some point a teams goalie needs to stand on his head and save better.
Watching him in net is painful, he's on his knees, looks lost looking for the puck and just slow.

Oilers have a great team, if they get an awesome goalie they'll be set but the way they sit now it's not looking good, just my take.

 

[Myride]

Is this really the case now?

I accept that it used to be to some extent. But in a 32 team league it seems goalies are getting quicker looks than they used to and also quicker that teams take a look, and look away. I think its the amount of teams and cap that has an effect.

Of course theres a dozen or even 15 established vets in league but after that often seems like a revolving door. Plus goalies seem inordinately involved in trades. Hard position to be. Not for the feint of heart.

 

[McFlyingV]

Sorry but Skinner sucks. At some point a teams goalie needs to stand on his head and save better.
Watching him in net is painful, he's on his knees, looks lost looking for the puck and just slow.

Oilers have a great team, if they get an awesome goalie they'll be set but the way they sit now it's not looking good, just my take.

As a starter I agree, and the stats support it. Skinner is good in small doses, but he has a lot of weaknesses in his game that people can exploit especially in a 7 game series when he's scouted immensely. He'd make a great young back up on this team, which is what he always should have been. Management needs to get a stud in front of him that lets him develop as a backup because right now his game is only getting worse not better as he plays more games.

 

[Oilslick941611]

...

 

[LTIR]

Disagree. I had kids play from tier 5 to AA and AAA.

The AAA kids even did cones and crossovers. I’m not sure what type of hockey you are talking about.

Contact starts at U15.. tier 1-3 are contact and all get taught to take the body instead of trying to take the puck off the stick.

Point is that Ceci wouldn't even need to stare at Kucherov's stick if he took the body

 

[TB12]

Adin Hill also has big balls. I know his agent, and Adin called him day before game 5 and was like "where are you, get your ass down to Vegas to see one of your clients lift the cup in person". Agent flew down and saw him lift the cup on home ice.

That's alpha shit right there.

 

[bucks_oil]

The specific trouble with this game was the team in front of him played a near perfect game. you can't dominate and control play as much as the Oilers did. This was an Oilers game record shot count and scoring chances count. They didn't give up much. Well into the game, 2 periods Tampa had 5 scoring chances and only 14SOG. It was domination. Tampa scored 5 times on less than 10 scoring chances in the game.

I agree that Skinner can't verbally say certain things. But it should be up to other people in the org to finally figure out that this is not a starting goalie sufficient for a contending team. This is a dream destroying goalie.

People have been saying often its not Skinners fault at all, that he shouldn't be a starter, that he was deigned to be.

Well, Adin Hill at one point was 5th on the Vegas depth chart. he finally got the starts. he didn't back into it, he claimed it, he played the hockey of his life and got his team the SC. What a story. But oh Stewy, we can't be expecting too much from him..

Not sure what you are expecting Dravesaitl.

1) The guy totally admitted he messed up on the last couple goals. Which we can all agree.

2) He certainly can't say: "once they got one on me in a tight game I lost my focus and descended into self doubt". It serves no one.

3) All of the rest of this is i) actually not his responsibility and ii) we were talking about his post game comments, which were pretty bang on IMO.

He shat the bed and owned it. Next game as far as he should be concerned... the rest is for guys above his pay grade.

 

[harpoon]

I laughed at that comment. he's a pro athlete and couldn't do a pushup or climb a flight of stairs as a kid? Thats ridiculous

Yeah that was crazy. On what planet does a pro athlete brag that he ‘can do push-ups now’? And stairs too. That is not something to be flexing about at all.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not sure what you are expecting Dravesaitl.

1) The guy totally admitted he messed up on the last couple goals. Which we can all agree.

2) He certainly can't say: "once they got one on me in a tight game I lost my focus and descended into self doubt". It serves no one.

3) All of the rest of this is i) actually not his responsibility and ii) we were talking about his post game comments, which were pretty bang on IMO.

He shat the bed and owned it. Next game as far as he should be concerned... the rest is for guys above his pay grade.

I'm expecting even something approaching average goaltending. Not a league worst performance. I stand by the Tampa game being one of the worst goaltending performances I've seen.. Far from the first time. its regular with Skinner.

 

[bucks_oil]

I'm expecting even something approaching average goaltending. Not a league worst performance. I stand by the Tampa game being one of the worst goaltending performances I've seen.. Far from the first time. its regular with Skinner.

While I agree with you, I think you are changing the goalpost a bit. I was commenting on your displeasure with his post game comments.

It's one thing to objectively say: he's not good enough. I agree with you there.

It's another thing to say: he's not good enough, it's symbolic of a character flaw which I can discern from his post game interviews, I want him tarred and feathered.

Skinner isn't the guy... it is what it is. Holland and Jackson, your move.

 

[Drivesaitl]

While I agree with you, I think you are changing the goalpost a bit. I was commenting on your displeasure with his post game comments.

It's one thing to objectively say: he's not good enough. I agree with you there.

It's another thing to say: he's not good enough, it's symbolic of a character flaw which I can discern from his post game interviews, I want him tarred and feathered.

Skinner isn't the guy... it is what it is. Holland and Jackson, your move.

The words in isolation don't erase the ridiculously bad performance. Don't erase him being over playing weight, or how inept he as a goalie.

You're taking as if contrition matters when the sin (being awful in net) is committed every 2nd or 3rd game.

You chose, for some reason to take my one post out of context as if it wasn't related to all the other concerns.

 

[GOilers88]

Adin Hill was playing on the freaking Arizona Coyotes and San Jose Sharks at that age, I doubt Skinner would have had those numbers on team's that bad.

.918 Arizona (age 23)
.913 Arizona (age 24)
.906 San Jose (age 25)

Is not that bad for a terrible Coyotes and Sharks teams that are not even trying to win games.

Skinner has what? An .885 this year behind a team that's supposed to be a contender for a Cup? You think he'd put up great numbers in Phoenix or San Jose? Really?

Hill's comparable may be more Linus Ullmark. He had respectable numbers on some really bad teams before going to a really good team and breaking out fully.

Ingram may be another guy like that, .907 on a bad Coyotes team last year, up to .923 this year.

Hill also has yet to play more than 30 games in a season. Let him play 50 games and see if it affects his playoff performance at all.

.885 so far this year.

.913 as a prospect.
.914 last year.

He's had far more good than bad games in his career so far. Wouldn't be surprised if he climbs over .900 again this year too, for the 3rd straight season.

 

[Soundwave]

Hill also has yet to play more than 30 games in a season. Let him play 50 games and see if it affects his playoff performance at all.

.885 so far this year.

.913 as a prospect.
.914 last year.

He's had far more good than bad games in his career so far. Wouldn't be surprised if he climbs over .900 again this year too, for the 3rd straight season.

Are you talking abut Adin Hill or Stuart Skinner? Adin Hill is .933 this season, which is no.1 in the league.

Skinner is .885.

What is even the comparison between these two at this point other than they're somewhat close in age? There isn't one.

Hill had good to decent numbers on really bad teams like Arizona and San Jose, Skinner has sinking numbers on teams that are better.

 

[GOilers88]

Are you talking abut Adin Hill or Stuart Skinner? Adin Hill is .933 this season, which is no.1 in the league.

Skinner is .885.

What is even the comparison between these two at this point other than they're somewhat close in age? There isn't one.

Hill had good to decent numbers on really bad teams like Arizona and San Jose, Skinner has sinking numbers on teams that are better.

I was talking about Skinner.

He has 20 odd games this year where he's collectively under .900. In just under half of those he's also been above or well above .900
In his other 2 seasons and 63 games of work, he sported a .913 and a .914 and is a career .908
12 playoff games last year doesn't negate that, nor does this first quarter of the year, unless he finishes this season below .900

Adin Hill has never taken on a starters workload for a season. I realize he's doing well, but there's a big difference between playing 25 games a year and 50, and then going through the post season.

For some reason Adin Hills previous numbers mean something to you, but none of Skinners do. It's kind of lame.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah that was crazy. On what planet does a pro athlete brag that he ‘can do push-ups now’? And stairs too. That is not something to be flexing about at all.

Yet the goalie for some reason is liked, helped along, given carte blanche anywhere he goes. Like a charmed person. While doing so little himself. Wheres the dedication to career choice?

Stuart Skinner is essentially in the net in the NHL, or in the Pro's even, ONLY because of his size. he doesn't possess an actual skill base other than just being a big object. A refrigerator in goal.