Post-Game Talk: 5-4 Canadiens

[MrBoJangelz71]

First off, people aren’t being “overly critical” of us getting points. They’re being critical of our play which is a bit concerning.

Second, not a fully developed product? This is quite largely the same roster from last year. The fact that we at times look like we don’t know what is going on is also concerning. There shouldn’t be so many warts at times. Yes it’s an up and down season but we should look a little more polished, or at least we should expect too.

Third, people being “overly critical” is completely subjective. I could just as easily say you’re being too lenient on them. But that’s irrelevant because it’s just an opinion that holds little water.

The fact is, is that we’re getting points whether we deserve them or not which is a good sign. But on the flip side, it’s a bad sign that our overall play leaves a lot to be desired right now.

I’m still not convinced by Maurice but we’ll see how things continue to play out throughout November and December. I think that’ll be really telling going forward. We have to take that next step. We’re close but not quite there.

I believe some flip flop, over the moon with solid wins against Dallas and Pittsburgh, then are so sorely disappointed with performances like that against Montreal. We looked amazing against Dallas, did we magically slump several levels in play, a couple nights later?

We were the second youngest team in the league last season. I believe we are in the bottom three this year. This roster is continuously improving the more games they play, internal growth has multiple levels to go yet. There will be nights where we look amazing, and nights we don’t. As long as we continue to improve and play well enough to get points, we will be fine

 

[Board Bard]

Wow, how can you call that overall team improvements getting us the point when we're outshoot 50-23. Helle's the reason for that point - end of story. The rest of the team stunk, stunk, stunk (and the refs assisted as well)

But the good news is that Wheeler, the captain, is not going to lose any sleep over it. Whew, that's a relief. Wouldn't want him to get wrinkles or anything.

Or maybe he should lose some sleep. We normally see that kind of chicken**** game from the Jets 15 times a season, and they've already had 2 or 3 this season. That gives them 67 games in a season to outpoint teams that have 82 games to get enough points to make the playoffs. That's a serious disadvantage to the team Wheeler allegedly leads. If he doesn't lose any sleep over that, he's not fit to lead and should, at the very least, lose his letter.

 

[Board Bard]

The puck was sitting in Helle’s glove but he hadn’t closed it. I’m aware that players can jam at a puck that’s being covered on the ice, but this was a slash to the hand and seemed to be a different situation.
Anyway, given how much grey area there is in determining goalie interference, I was surprised Mo didn’t take a flyer on a challenge.

This begs the question: If hitting a skater's glove with a stick is a penalty, why isn't hitting a goalie's glove with a stick a penalty. If the same standard is used for all players, the play would have been whistled dead the instant the puck hit the ice and the Montreal guy touched it.

 

[Board Bard]

At some point it has to be on the players. I doubt Mo told Myers to go out there and crosscheck a guy in OT. I'll reiterate what I said before either our players are so ****ing dumb that they need Mo to wipe their asses for them as well or we should actually be putting some blame on the players. These are professional athletes not peewee players. They should know how to play the game of hockey without getting instruction from the coach on every single finite detail. I know it's typically easier to blame the coach but at some point it has to be on the players here.

Or it's on the coach AND the players. And if that's the case, the GM too. Which makes the owner also culpable.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I agree with Daximus. That particular play is not on the coach but Myers. You can argue with Myers out there in the first place but either Myers is an Nhler or not.

 

[DowntownBooster]

After 2 periods tonight in Chicago, the Canadiens only have 18 shots on net and haven't scored a goal yet. Hopefully the Jets will go into Dallas prepared to put in an effort on Monday night.

 

[tbcwpg]

Seems to me it's interfering in keepers ability to make a save if he is standing in the blue paint with the puck in his glove (not being bobbled like somebody suggested as a maybe) and you jam/wack/slash his glove hand to knock the puck free. Remember, he was in the blue paint.

I just think we disagree on the nature of what constitutes goaltender interference. No problem there. The puck was in his glove and then knocked out in less than a second. I'd be annoyed that it wasn't blown dead, and Hellebuyck obviously was. I don't think it's goaltender interference though. Same as if a goalie covers it on the ice and it's knocked loose.

That is not to say that the Jets are doomed to be as a bad a team as some of the other teams in that list, lots of hockey still to be played. But the point is that there are very legitimate reasons to be concerned and the people who are concerned about the Jets' horrific shot share are not being "chicken littles", "whining", "the sky is falling" or whatever the in vogue epithet is.

I think that this isn't the style the Jets want to play, and that it'll improve. The PK is still my main point of concern, less so than the Corsi stats right now.

I would like to see how the quality of shots given up compares between the Jets so far this season, and the Avs and Flames from their seasons where they "beat the odds", so to speak.

After 2 periods tonight in Chicago, the Canadiens only have 18 shots on net and haven't scored a goal yet. Hopefully the Jets will go into Dallas prepared to put in an effort on Monday night.

That's an anomaly as I'm fairly certain the Habs lead the league in shots.

 

[nobody important]

I just think we disagree on the nature of what constitutes goaltender interference. No problem there. The puck was in his glove and then knocked out in less than a second. I'd be annoyed that it wasn't blown dead, and Hellebuyck obviously was. I don't think it's goaltender interference though. Same as if a goalie covers it on the ice and it's knocked loose.

To Hell with the goalie interference argument. You whack at another player's hand with your stick, it's slashing. Period. End of discussion. With all the added protection provided goalies, how can they be exempt from this rule?

 

[Adam da bomb]

What gets more than anyone call is lack of consistency. Laine tripped no call. Their player tripped a call. The weak call on Tanev's goal. No call on their second or 4th goal.

 

[tbcwpg]

To Hell with the goalie interference argument. You whack at another player's hand with your stick, it's slashing. Period. End of discussion. With all the added protection provided goalies, how can they be exempt from this rule?

You can't challenge a goal based on slashing, is what I'm saying. It has to actively impede the goaltender from being able to make the save. What happened on the second goal doesn't fit that tight definition. I'm not saying what was done was a legal play, but one that would not be successful if challenged.

 

[DowntownBooster]

At least Montreal did us a favor by beating Chicago tonight. It makes yesterday's loss to them a little easier to take. Good to see Edmonton lose again tonight (and it wasn't to one of our division rivals).

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I have woken up from the advanced stats bubble. I don't want to back to the years where we kept patting ourselves on the back about how we out corsi'd them 5v5, even though we lost. Miss playoffs. Rinse, repeat. But look at how good we are 5v5, lose games, miss playoffs, rinse, repeat.

I want to be like the Penguins. Even though their corsi is below the line, they have two cups in a row.

This year we are finding ways to get points when in previous years we wouldn't. I like it.

Screw the Corsi, win the Scorsi!

This post sure wouldn't have looked out of place on the Leafs board in 2013.

I notice the Pens have become a popular rallying cry for the anti-analytics crowd, and I can't understand why. They invest heavily in analytics, for one. They were one of the best possession teams in 2015-16, and still above 50% last season. Their 5v5 xGF was also top 5 last season; for the record, the Jets are bottom 10 in 5v5 xGF this season (after being 13th this past season).

I'm not all doom and gloom, there have been some really strong performances - early vs. Oilers, both games vs. Pens, Thursday vs. Dallas - and a couple of decent-ish ones. Overall though, just far too many duds where we've either been dumpstered or stole points because of outstanding goaltending. Last night was the latter.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think that this isn't the style the Jets want to play, and that it'll improve. The PK is still my main point of concern, less so than the Corsi stats right now.

I would like to see how the quality of shots given up compares between the Jets so far this season, and the Avs and Flames from their seasons where they "beat the odds", so to speak.

I agree that PK is awful. Last game I fastforwarded through almost all PKs last game (and expected a goal to be scored against when it caught up), it is too frustrating to watch them give all kinds of time and space to the points and halfwalls once the other team takes the zone.

The Jets are not that much better in Corsica's xGF% either (10th worst or so) which while not perfect does account for some shot quality. But imo the quality of chances given up or taken doesn't matter when you are at 46% Corsi, at those numbers sheer volume is going to overwhelm any efficiencies in shot quality that you are getting (whether for or against). Maybe you can start talking about a team being undersold by their raw shot share due to better shots for quality and lower quality chances given up when you are around 50% in shot share. At 46% there is no such hope, no NHL team is that good at controlling quality of chances to get out shot by 8% and still hope to be a big dog in the playoffs. The Jets would need to be at atleast 50%+ in Corsi of we are to take them seriously as a team that can make some noise in the playoffs.

I would feel much more positive if the Jets were 5-6-1 but had 52% Corsi and xGF% as opposed to the current 7-3-3 record with horrendous underlying numbers.

 

[nobody important]

I would feel much more positive if the Jets were 5-6-1 but had 52% Corsi and xGF% as opposed to the current 7-3-3 record with horrendous underlying numbers

I would be horrified if they were 5-6-1 after 13 games.

 

[Guffman]

First off, people aren’t being “overly critical” of us getting points. They’re being critical of our play which is a bit concerning.

Second, not a fully developed product? This is quite largely the same roster from last year. The fact that we at times look like we don’t know what is going on is also concerning. There shouldn’t be so many warts at times. Yes it’s an up and down season but we should look a little more polished, or at least we should expect too.

Third, people being “overly critical” is completely subjective. I could just as easily say you’re being too lenient on them. But that’s irrelevant because it’s just an opinion that holds little water.

The fact is, is that we’re getting points whether we deserve them or not which is a good sign. But on the flip side, it’s a bad sign that our overall play leaves a lot to be desired right now.

I’m still not convinced by Maurice but we’ll see how things continue to play out throughout November and December. I think that’ll be really telling going forward. We have to take that next step. We’re close but not quite there.

B-b-b-ut...it’s not SUSTAINABLE!!!

We’d feel better with sustainable metrics but less points, right??

lol

 

[Hank Chinaski]

B-b-b-ut...it’s not SUSTAINABLE!!!

We’d feel better with sustainable metrics but less points, right??

lol

I'd feel better winning games without relying on superhuman feats of goaltending and narrow misses on grade A scoring chances. But that's just me.

 

[Guffman]

I'd feel better winning games without relying on superhuman feats of goaltending and narrow misses on grade A scoring chances. But that's just me.

Like I’ve said before, it’s a good feeling when we don’t need all of our stars clicking to still earn points. We must have a talented team!

End result, points, is my primary concern. Looking good but losing is so yesterday.

 

[JetsNut]

I would be horrified if they were 5-6-1 after 13 games.

That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard!!!

 

[JetsNut]

Correction the original quote is not yours. I too would be a heck of a lot more horrified if we were under .500!

 

[Ducky10]

Like I’ve said before, it’s a good feeling when we don’t need all of our stars clicking to still earn points. We must have a talented team!

End result, points, is my primary concern. Looking good but losing is so yesterday.

I think this is typically referred to as the Ostrich approach.

 

[Gm0ney]

Huge overreaction. They were horrible, but this isn't how they've played D for the large majority of this season. Seems like some "confirmation bias".

The Jets are surrendering tons of shots this season so far. Only 4 times have they managed to keep their opponents under 30 - and two of those were against the Wild who haven't managed 30 shots on goal against anyone all season.

I was looking at HDCA last season compared to this season. The Jets averaged 10.07 HDCA per game last year. Their rolling 10 game average ranged between 7.7 and 12.0. This year they're averaging 11.54 HDCA per game. Using a 5 game rolling average (since it's so early in the year), they've ranged between 10.6 and 12.4.

I think people's eyes are fooling them if they think the team has been particularly sound on defense this year.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

i watched the replay and i take it back.
Patches did interfere with buff but buff went down like he was shot. i don't know if that was legitimate or not. so...could have been a call.
still doesn't excuse his inability to clear or ice the puck. that, i don't get.

I was also frustrated that he attempted the chip play and went to jump into the rush. Were frick'n short handed and he's looking to join the rush. He could have simply iced it and played to get us back to even strength / take our chances in a shoot out. Of course mini Toby's absolutely pathetic play behind the net just magnified the whole problem. Poolman behind the net would have easily sealed the boards and protected the puck and at least prevented the gift wrapped chance that was created.

I do find it funny that our board has said that Buff, Enstrom and Myers shouldn't be out in OT. Someone has to play.

Jets didn't deserve to win but easily could have.
Ehlers missed a WIDE open net, the play to Laine in front of the net could easily have squeeked in 5-hole. The slash to Hellebuyck could have been called which would have negated that goal.

I fully agree and support that we have many problems in our play style / choices / deployment but I also don't think we've seen our best game very often.

Barring other injuries it will be VERY interesting to see what PoMo does when MP comes back. Does his vet love mean that Connor is slid down to the 3rd? I saw someone suggest having Laine on the 3rd (yeah, that's gonna help his confidence and performance a ton...). People want Laine with Scheif but I don't see that happening with Ehlers. Maybe they give Laine Schief Wheeler a spin? That or MP Scheif Laine. I don't see a line where Ehlers or Connor are playing with Laine and Scheif. At least not until their possession and play driving effects improve.

How many more PP goals can Laine score from his new spot before teams shut that down? Theoretically if the PK collapses on him that should give the half wall and points free range to move the puck?

 

[Ducky10]

Was at the game last night and while I wasn't as shocked and dismayed as some seem to be, it was a pretty disappointing effort, Helle not withstanding.

The Canadiens are by no means a talented team, but last night they worked hard and stuck to their gameplan, which the Jets did neither of. Way too much loose play, lazy play by the wingers trying to fly the zone, slow reads and just flat out wrong reads by the D, as well as some atrocious outlet passes. It was evident the Habs were going to make the Jets work hard to earn ice, they didn't seem up to the task unfortunately.

What I mainly saw was one team asserting it's style of play on the game and the other running around trying to figure it out. Both teams playing a low zone collapse, one positionally well, the other, not so mucb. Julien had his team well prepared to attack that same system, the Canadiens got the puck down low and recyled it back up top all night long. They put the puck on net from the point and slot area and crashed the net, that was the plan, it's all they had and they stuck to it. The Jets cooperated by getting yanked back and forth in their zone, not knowing what to do, operating so poorly they gave up a host of chances in the very spot the system is supposed to protect the most.

Offensively the Jets just couldn't figure the same thing out, even when they did work the puck back up top, they passed up most opportunities to put it on net, opting to continually cycle the puck on the perimeter or skate around the edges aimlessly, exactly what Montreal wanted them to do.

The Jets struggle mightily against teams that play this way, at both ends of the ice. What's the point of playing such a conservative defensive style if your just going to get pumped for 50 shots against the likes of the Habs? Once again they stifle their own offense for defense they can barely execute on a regular basis. Why against Montreal? There was no way they could keep up with the Jets if Winnipeg dictated the pace. They play relatively high event against Pittsburgh and Dallas, and even to some extent Minnesota, then they decide to match the low event game they knew the Canadiens were going to throw at them? It's what Julien does, he's been doing it for years. What's the plan Mo!

Still looking for an identity and mainly searching for the wrong one imo.

Oh, and that PK....Jesus Christ already, how pathetic can it get?

 

[JetsFan815]

The Jets are surrendering tons of shots this season so far. Only 4 times have they managed to keep their opponents under 30 - and two of those were against the Wild who haven't managed 30 shots on goal against anyone all season.

I was looking at HDCA last season compared to this season. The Jets averaged 10.07 HDCA per game last year. Their rolling 10 game average ranged between 7.7 and 12.0. This year they're averaging 11.54 HDCA per game. Using a 5 game rolling average (since it's so early in the year), they've ranged between 10.6 and 12.4.

I think people's eyes are fooling them if they think the team has been particularly sound on defense this year.

.930+ goaltending is a hell of a drug

 

[Garbox]

What gets more than anyone call is lack of consistency. Laine tripped no call. Their player tripped a call. The weak call on Tanev's goal. No call on their second or 4th goal.

The 4th goal Helle was interfered by Buff's stick. Buff was trying to play out opponent's stick, but managed to block Helle's glove inthe process.