Post-Game Talk: #46 | Red Wings at FLYERS | Wednesday, Feb. 9, 2022 | 7:00 pm ET | NBCSP, BSDET

[Hollywood Cannon]

Is it as good as advertised?

As advertised, I don't know. I haven't heard that much about it really. I know that it's talked about but on what level i'm not really sure.

I'll say that i've really enjoyed the show and it's very well done.

 

[pooch]

It would not matter if you let the same people that have led you to this problem lead the team out of it. First and foremost organizational development philosophy needs to change.

I do not disagree. I would love for them to really blow it up right now (players, GM, coaches, all of it), but I highly doubt that happens.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

If one player fails, you can call them a flop.

When an entire team of young players is flopping -- one can reasonably assume that it isnt just the players fault.

Maybe they are all really good "support" players a need a legit star to help elevate their game...none of the players are living up to any sort of hype or exceeding their expectations, part bad luck and part being conservative in drafting players (rather than trying to go for a homerun or bust type of player)

 

[pooch]

I don't think many fans really have the patience for six years of missing the playoffs like Detroit will have done after this season.

That would suck, but the Wings have a really bright future right now and I'd be way happier watching that than whatever we are seeing here.

 

[Bigkarl]

Not that I think many individual players on this team should necessarily be defended, but when all of your young players and most of your veterans are failing to produce, and you have 2 players over .75 ppg, do you think that it might have something to do with systems that don’t value possession or transition and try to stifle any offensive creativity? Maybe that’s a more reasonable explanation for suppressed production than an entire team just all individually forgot how to play hockey over the past year or so.

 

[CSKA1974]

That would suck, but the Wings have a really bright future right now and I'd be way happier watching that than whatever we are seeing here.

There is a difference maker there

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Not only do you have to draft well, but post draft development is paramount. If you do not have that- you are just another Oilers organization.
I do think that almost all of above mentioned (maybe except for Lindblom) have their development mismanaged by the organization that prides itself on trying to fit a lot of square pegs into the round holes.

I think they simply had far too many draft flops for an organization that made rebuilding through the draft its #1 priority for half of a decade.

Patrick hasn’t fared any better in Vegas. Richards, Carter, Giroux, & Couturier all developed fine in Philly. Farabee seems to be developing well.

Bad drafting, & overrating those draft picks, has been the issue IMO.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How do you think a team should be "built"?

With better drafting.

 

[CSKA1974]

I think they simply had far too many draft flops for an organization that made rebuilding through the draft its #1 priority for half of a decade.

Patrick hasn’t fared any better in Vegas. Richards, Carter, Giroux, & Couturier all developed fine in Philly. Farabee seems to be developing well.

Bad drafting, & overrating those draft picks, has been the issue IMO.

So did Clarke and Barber and Lindros. Different regimes had led the development at different times. Farabee might be just an outlier. Patrick had a year off and so his learning curve had dipped.

 

[Curufinwe]

Maybe they are all really good "support" players a need a legit star to help elevate their game...none of the players are living up to any sort of hype or exceeding their expectations, part bad luck and part being conservative in drafting players (rather than trying to go for a homerun or bust type of player)

Farabee is. 6th most points in his draft class, and a much higher PPG than #5 Kotkaniemi.

Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2018

 

[CSKA1974]

With better drafting.

Not if you do not have a well thought/ executed development system. Just look at oilers and sabers a few years back.
Not only TB drafted well, but they also made sure that prospects were developing well. They were not shy of shedding some that did not fit the mold.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Farabee is. 6th most points in his draft class, and a much higher PPG than #5 Kotkaniemi.

Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2018

Okay let me re-phrase that to almost everyone...the biggest "disappointment" for me personally is Provorov, although he is solid I expected him to be a much better and versatile blueliner than he is currently showing, he is more of a #2 defender than a #1 from what he has shown in his career to date. Konecny is disappointing, Lindblom gets a pass and the others are just "meh".

 

[Starat327]

I cant imagine how development has fallen off since we've promoted people like Chris Steart and Nick Schultz to our player development program.

 

[Rebels57]

Okay let me re-phrase that to almost everyone...the biggest "disappointment" for me personally is Provorov, although he is solid I expected him to be a much better and versatile blueliner than he is currently showing, he is more of a #2 defender than a #1 from what he has shown in his career to date. Konecny is disappointing, Lindblom gets a pass and the others are just "meh".

He's regressed to the point of not even being a #2.

The Flyers have broken the majority of their talented young players. Incompetent coaching from the head coaches, development coaches, and skills coaches.. combined with being on a losing team thanks to a loser GM and this is what you get..

 

[Rebels57]

I cant imagine how development has fallen off since we've promoted people like Chris Steart and Nick Schultz to our player development program.

A bottom-pairing garbage try-hard like Schultz is exactly who I want honing the skills of young, mobile defensemen with puck skills like Provy and Sanheim.

 

[deadhead]

If one player fails, you can call them a flop.

When an entire team of young players is flopping -- one can reasonably assume that it isnt just the players fault.

Given that Provorov and Patrick were the only 2 picked in the top 10, and Patrick has been the victim of an unfortunate condition, their performance really isn't unexpected - though this year is probably an anomaly due to AV and the string of injuries. Metrics have improved under Yeo, but still not good, but some of that is injuries, wingers playing with third tier centers will suffer.

Young players under Yeo so far:
xGF% (5x5, SVA) / xGFrel / ES pp/60

TK 50.44% / +5.91 / 2.04
Willman 48.89% / +3.57 / 0.78
Farabee 47.95% / +1.39 / 2.60
Bunnaman 47.35% / +1.33 / 0.00
Laughton 46.71% / +0.19 / 2.33
Lindblom 45.47% / -0.88 / 2.71
Frost 45.35% / -2.80 / 1.29
Mayhew 45.29% / -2.05 / 1.18
Cates 42.58% / -0.49 / 0.74
MacEwen 40.58% / -7.14 / 0.83

Sanheim 50.02% / +6.57 / 1.59
Risto 47.18% / +1.41 / 1.01
York 46.19% / -1.70 / 0.29
Provorov 44.79% / -1.54 / 0.97

Frost and York were struggling, Willman has outplayed Frost, except he's struggling to close the deal.
Watching Mayhew, he is exactly what people want, a quick, undersized forward who can shoot, except he struggles to control the puck
MacEwen, "he just tall, that's just about all."
Risto is fine for your #4 D-man, nothing special, but can eat a lot of minutes - but what's that worth? $4M a year?

Note that once Yeo took over, TK, Farabee, Laughton and Lindblom started scoring, but their metrics are below par, probably b/c of the linemates and D-men they've had to play with.

 

[Striiker]

Provorov is the one player with zero excuse when it comes to how he’s been handled.

You can only be gifted so much before you eventually have to perform. Meanwhile players who have had it infinitely harder than he has continue to lap him while still being screwed over.

He just lacks the offensive IQ and puck skills to do anything with the unearned usage he’s been gifted since day 1 and his D is nowhere near good enough to make up for that.

 

[Hextallent63]

I wish the Flyers had 5 picks in the top 10 the last five years and a young center like Larkin.

that would have been awesome. i wish the flyers used their young players like detroit is now. this season and the last 5.

 

[Hextallent63]

I don't think many fans really have the patience for six years of missing the playoffs like Detroit will have done after this season.

theres gonna be alot of pissed off fans then.

 

[sauce88]

Provorov is the one player with zero excuse when it comes to how he’s been handled.

You can only be gifted so much before you eventually have to perform. Meanwhile players who have had it infinitely harder than he has continue to lap him while still being screwed over.

He just lacks the offensive IQ and puck skills to do anything with the unearned usage he’s been gifted since day 1 and his D is nowhere near good enough to make up for that.

I mean, it could be debated that if he was handled competently he and the Flyers would be more effective.

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost and York were struggling, Willman has outplayed Frost, except he's struggling to close the deal.
Watching Mayhew, he is exactly what people want, a quick, undersized forward who can shoot, except he struggles to control the puck

Willman hasn't outplayed Frost in any way. Willman is scoring less than half the rate of Frost, and they've had roughly equal ice time so far. Willman could be a positive story as a 4th liner who can PK with possible upside, but it's absurd that he was playing on the 3rd line last night with Frost watching on TV.

Frost: 1.44 ESP/60, 39.13 GF%, 46.16 xGF%, 47.18 CF%
Willman 0.59 ESP/60, 33.33 GF%, 43.77 xGF%, 42.64 CF%

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[deadhead]

Difference is Willman is an street free agent, and Frost is a 1st rd pick.
Frost just hasn't played that well, don't think a couple weeks in the AHL will kill him, and he's going to play a lot of minutes down the stretch once they move guys out at the TDL.

Willman is getting an audition in different roles, he's destined to a 4LW role in the future, but it's a good opportunity to push him, at 26, you're not looking at him as a development piece but cheap depth.

Frost is improving, but painfully slow, more and more he's looking like 3rd line center is his upside.
Which means getting a legitimate young 2C has to be an organizational priority, b/c there are no candidates in the pipeline.

 

[Starat327]

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost has played sigificantly better than 5 of the bottom 6 forwards last night. You know, the game where the Flyers got run out of their own rink by a .500 team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think they simply had far too many draft flops for an organization that made rebuilding through the draft its #1 priority for half of a decade.

Patrick hasn’t fared any better in Vegas. Richards, Carter, Giroux, & Couturier all developed fine in Philly. Farabee seems to be developing well.

Bad drafting, & overrating those draft picks, has been the issue IMO.

They didn't draft badly or overrate their picks though. It was widely agreed around the hockey world that they drafted well enough to have far better results than they have produced.

They blew it with development. Hextall instituted horrible development processes that Fletcher hasn't just maintained, he's made worse.