GDT: #42: Blues at FLYERS, Monday, Jan. 7, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[BiggE]

So we shouldn’t be angry at the players, it’s all just coaching. I’ll agree that JVR’s usage has been poor but how does that defend his complete lack of effort defensively? And it’s not just JVR, both Simmonds, who I also think is done, and Voracek have been dogging it defensively as well. JVR has pluses and minuses to his game, we all know that. Personally I’d rather the money that went to him had been allocated to bringing in another good center in FA or via trade. Center was a much greater need than a pF wing going into this season. Also, FWIW, Simmonds has been here for nearly a decade, and is an alternate captain. How is he not a core player on this team?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

This one is unspeakably large.

Its such a huge game NHLN is showing this game over Preds/Leafs

 

[GKJ]

So we shouldn’t be angry at the players, it’s all just coaching. I’ll agree that JVR’s usage has been poor but how does that defend his complete lack of effort defensively? And it’s not just JVR, both Simmonds, who I also think is done, and Voracek have been dogging it defensively as well. JVR has pluses and minuses to his game, we all know that. Personally I’d rather the money that went to him had been allocated to bringing in another good center in FA or via trade. Center was a much greater need than a pF wing going into this season. Also, FWIW, Simmonds has been here for nearly a decade, and is an alternate captain. How is he not a core player on this team?

Can debate how it makes you feel about his acquisition, but JVR playing strong defense and backchecking hard is not what you're signing up for.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Blues need a team like the Flyers to really get their offense going. Incoming another loss.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

True battle of suck. Going from Yeo vs Hak to Berube vs Gordon not much has changed.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

JVR will take over the crease role on PP1 once Fletcher trades Simmonds. Right now they're just trying to maximize Simmonds' trade value. That means letting him play PP1 and probably holding him until close to the trade deadline.

 

[TCTC]

JVR will take over the crease role on PP1 once Fletcher trades Simmonds. Right now they're just trying to maximize Simmonds' trade value. That means letting him play PP1 and probably holding him until close to the trade deadline.

It makes sense. Our PP has bigger problems than just Simmonds anyway, so let's just hope he'll get a PP goal here and there to up his value.

 

[Hurricane28]

Big game for the tank

 

[Cootsfanclub]

 

[bennysflyers16]

Can never cheer for a Hart loss.

 

[TheKingPin]

This season is lost, why win and get knock out in the first rd? Let Hart play the rest of the year to get experience, he has looked good so far and I like what I have seen. Retool this offseason and start fresh next year with the high pick.

Just sarcasm. I want this team to lose every game. Especially this game. I really think we need a new game changing player. I think if we are top 3 that’s good enough for odds.

 

[Magua]

So we shouldn’t be angry at the players, it’s all just coaching. I’ll agree that JVR’s usage has been poor but how does that defend his complete lack of effort defensively? And it’s not just JVR, both Simmonds, who I also think is done, and Voracek have been dogging it defensively as well. JVR has pluses and minuses to his game, we all know that. Personally I’d rather the money that went to him had been allocated to bringing in another good center in FA or via trade. Center was a much greater need than a pF wing going into this season. Also, FWIW, Simmonds has been here for nearly a decade, and is an alternate captain. How is he not a core player on this team?

You're emotional, I get it. I guess in the end, old chum, you're looking at this season as a harbinger of things to come. I'm pretty pessimistic by nature, but I think this is just a perfect storm disaster of a season that doesn't preclude them from returning to playoff form (look at Colorado for a more drastic example). Maybe you'll agree once the fresh frustration calcifies.

We have been so over Simmonds for a time now; I've been vocal about trading him for a year or two, when it was still thought we should re-sign him as some vital playoff changing piece (I haven't viewed him as a core player for years). That ship has sailed. Voracek isn't a perfect player, but he's a rare commodity in the organization and not directly replaceable: a dynamic winger who can take over games. If we sign Panarin in the off-season (I'd love to get him or EK), sure, we can reevaluate his standing. But selling for pennies on the dollar like he's Phil Kessel isn't a move geared towards winning. And he really is our Kessel type. JVR is a pigeon being misused. He's not someone I would've run into free agency trying to sign given fit and need, but if he can rightfully take PP1 net front over Wayne's corpse, and be used on a sheltered line with players who create for him (Frost?), I don't think it's a bad signing.

In the end, they fired their GM and fired their coach. Both rightfully so. But Fletcher needs to deep six the rest of this coaching staff presiding over a league worst special teams. That is killing this team. If we can get actually GOOD coaching, not even competent as the bar, that's transformative stuff. Their interim head coach is a mediocre AHL coach not fit for this level, so no one should've gotten their hopes up. The rest of this season probably won't be informative. Of course things like a stopgap goalie need to be explored. Players like Ivan (whose expectations got outlandish) and Ghost and Patrick need to take next steps or get back on track, along with a few others. And they will. The team has the talent. In the end.....

How's Key West?

 

[BringBackHakstol]

JVR will take over the crease role on PP1 once Fletcher trades Simmonds. Right now they're just trying to maximize Simmonds' trade value. That means letting him play PP1 and probably holding him until close to the trade deadline.

I highly doubt the coaching staff is playing players in certain positions for a potential future trade. They are trying to win

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I highly doubt the coaching staff is playing players in certain positions for a potential future trade. They are trying to win

As a new interim coach, he very well may be deferring to a veteran, long-time warrior for the Flyers out of respect. But JVR will be taking over the spot after the deadline & any goals by Simmonds increase his value.

 

[BiggE]

You're emotional, I get it. I guess in the end, old chum, you're looking at this season as a harbinger of things to come. I'm pretty pessimistic by nature, but I think this is just a perfect storm disaster of a season that doesn't preclude them from returning to playoff form (look at Colorado for a more drastic example). Maybe you'll agree once the fresh frustration calcifies.

We have been so over Simmonds for a time now; I've been vocal about trading him for a year or two, when it was still thought we should re-sign him as some vital playoff changing piece (I haven't viewed him as a core player for years). That ship has sailed. Voracek isn't a perfect player, but he's a rare commodity in the organization and not directly replaceable: a dynamic winger who can take over games. If we sign Panarin in the off-season (I'd love to get him or EK), sure, we can reevaluate his standing. But selling for pennies on the dollar like he's Phil Kessel isn't a move geared towards winning. And he really is our Kessel type. JVR is a pigeon being misused. He's not someone I would've run into free agency trying to sign given fit and need, but if he can rightfully take PP1 net front over Wayne's corpse, and be used on a sheltered line with players who create for him (Frost?), I don't think it's a bad signing.

In the end, they fired their GM and fired their coach. Both rightfully so. But Fletcher needs to deep six the rest of this coaching staff presiding over a league worst special teams. That is killing this team. If we can get actually GOOD coaching, not even competent as the bar, that's transformative stuff. Their interim head coach is a mediocre AHL coach not fit for this level, so no one should've gotten their hopes up. The rest of this season probably won't be informative. Of course things like a stopgap goalie need to be explored. Players like Ivan (whose expectations got outlandish) and Ghost and Patrick need to take next steps or get back on track, along with a few others. And they will. The team has the talent. In the end.....

How's Key West?

Yeah I do get emotional, it’s hard to grasp that for the first time in franchise history, it will be 7 years and counting since a playoff series win.

Key West is awesome as always, though we are currently renting our place out. Bought a new place in the St Augustine area where I will be living full time in just a few more months.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

This game should be craptacularly awesome on a grand scale, like Bill Cosby's Ghost Dad bad....lol

 

[Magua]

Yeah I do get emotional, it’s hard to grasp that for the first time in franchise history, it will be 7 years and counting since a playoff series win.

Key West is awesome as always, though we are currently renting our place out. Bought a new place in the St Augustine area where I will be living full time in just a few more months.

My issues right now are Simmonds (who is actively hurting this team and hogging minutes) and maybe a depth piece or two need to be shipped. And players like Misha, Myers, and NAK should be on the team. Certainly the latter two. I'm not acting like watching this team isn't death at times and I'm pissed we have to punt again this season, but watching Hakstok get his ass canned for Sanheim to get a ton of minutes and look pretty good in them and DEVELOP (he had 25 minutes last game......previous 2 games against Calgary 19 combined) is sustaining me, along with watching Hart and the usual suspects. Gimme more of that. And fever dreams of Hughes and Kakko are nice.

The best thing that could come out of this season is the young kids get more free room to play with less pressure. That's some long term good sheeeeet that could pay dividends next season. Then work some magic in the offseason.

 

[Striiker]

So we shouldn’t be angry at the players, it’s all just coaching. I’ll agree that JVR’s usage has been poor but how does that defend his complete lack of effort defensively? And it’s not just JVR, both Simmonds, who I also think is done, and Voracek have been dogging it defensively as well. JVR has pluses and minuses to his game, we all know that. Personally I’d rather the money that went to him had been allocated to bringing in another good center in FA or via trade. Center was a much greater need than a pF wing going into this season. Also, FWIW, Simmonds has been here for nearly a decade, and is an alternate captain. How is he not a core player on this team?

That's not what I said.

It's coaching AND a few specific players, but not the core or JVR.

You want a good center in FA? Yeah, so does every fan and GM in the league, but they rarely make it to FA and once they do there's no guarantee they come here. So we got the best player available to us, which was definitely a good move, and we still have plenty of cap space remaining to try for future FAs and re-sign all our important young guys.

Simmonds WAS a core player of the team but he isn't anymore. He's done here... I know it, you know it, Fletcher knows it, and Simmonds knows it. Look at JVR as a Simmonds replacement/upgrade, because that's exactly what he is.

Being frustrated is fine, but you're directing your blame in it the wrong place. This season is a fluke and it won't continue. They could easily make a playoff run next year.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Welcome BiggE

 

[VladDrag]

Elliott = fine
Neuvirth = mistake

Elliotts injury wasn't predictable, so it's not something that should be criticized, since it's all hindsight. It's not as if we had two Neuvriths where it was obviously going to end with injuries.

Only thing with which I disagree, somewhat anyways.

Elliot’s injury certainly could be predictable (and some have). He is an over 30 goalie, who had not been used as a number 1 prior to last season for years, coming off a groin surgery that he came back from too early.

Hak had a terrible time with goaltender usage, and it was likely that had he stayed as the head coach as Hexy wanted, he would have overused Elliot again.

The problem however was always signing Neuvirth to a two year contract in the beginning.

It was a problem that was spoken about in the off season iirc. Doesn’t really change the overall argument tho.

 

[BiggE]

That's not what I said.

It's coaching AND a few specific players, but not the core or JVR.

You want a good center in FA? Yeah, so does every fan and GM in the league, but they rarely make it to FA and once they do there's no guarantee they come here. So we got the best player available to us, which was definitely a good move, and we still have plenty of cap space remaining to try for future FAs and re-sign all our important young guys.

Simmonds WAS a core player of the team but he isn't anymore. He's done here... I know it, you know it, Fletcher knows it, and Simmonds knows it. Look at JVR as a Simmonds replacement/upgrade, because that's exactly what he is.

Being frustrated is fine, but you're directing your blame in it the wrong place. This season is a fluke and it won't continue. They could easily make a playoff run next year.

They could absolutely make a playoff run next year, Fletcher is a pro and I think he knows what needs to be done. It just frustrates me that a guy like Simmonds wasn’t dealt 2 years ago. Knowing when to move players and get maximum value for them before they start to break down is what sets apart the top GMs in this league.

Stubbornly clinging to this subpar coaching staff coupled with his failure to make moves like trading Simmonds in 2017 or moving on from Neuvirth last summer are the reasons why I’m glad Hextall is gone. I really hope Fletcher completely cleans house in regards to this current coaching staff after the season. Give me that and some lottery luck and I’ll quickly get over this mess of a season

 

[Striiker]

They could absolutely make a playoff run next year, Fletcher is a pro and I think he knows what needs to be done. It just frustrates me that a guy like Simmonds wasn’t dealt 2 years ago. Knowing when to move players and get maximum value for them before they start to break down is what sets apart the top GMs in this league.

Stubbornly clinging to this subpar coaching staff coupled with his failure to make moves like trading Simmonds in 2017 or moving on from Neuvirth last summer are the reasons why I’m glad Hextall is gone. I really hope Fletcher completely cleans house in regards to this current coaching staff after the season. Give me that and some lottery luck and I’ll quickly get over this mess of a season

I still don't trust Fletcher, but obviously I hope my concerns end up being nothing. There's a few very obvious things he should have done by now and the fact that he hasn't, while also not having the excuse of being overly patient like Hextall, is concerning to me. But we'll see, I guess. If he doesn't trade Simmonds, we're f***ed.

As for Hextall, he deserves a lot of blame for how he f***ed the coaching situation. There's a ton that he did right, which has us set us up for success in the next decade, but the upside of those moves will continue to be overshadowed until a new coaching staff is hired.

And yeah, if we win a top 2 lottery pick this will all be worth it. One of those players, plus the core guys already on the roster, plus the talent we have in the AHL/CHL/NCAA puts us in an incredible position. It would honestly be impressive if Fletcher manages to f*** this up.

 

[Hurricane28]

@Striiker just curious, who do you consider the core? I’m sure you’ve said it before, but I’ve been off and on lately

 

[Striiker]

@Striiker just curious, who do you consider the core? I’m sure you’ve said it before, but I’ve been off and on lately

I actually just made a post a few days ago to clarify that.

The topic of the core players being a problem was brought up in the GDT by @bennysflyers16 and I figured I'd make a post in a less temporary thread to explain who I consider to be the core and whether or not they deserve any blame. There was a miscommunication about who is and isn't considered a core player, so first I'll clear that up.

Here's the roster, players with bold names are who I consider to be the current "core":

Giroux
Couturier
Voracek
Konecny
Patrick
Simmonds
JVR
Lindblom
Laughton
Raffl
Weise
Weal

Provorov
Ghost
Sanheim
Gudas
Hagg
Mac
Folin

Hart
Neuvirth
Elliott

I don't care about contract length or price, so guys like JVR and MacDonald aren't automatically core players. The core are the guys the team is built, and will continue to be built, around. They're the guys we'll be helping by adding/removing the secondary players.

Not all of them are playing their best right now, that's for sure, but they also aren't the real problem. I see struggling/underachieving players - like Voracek, Patrick, Ghost, or Provorov - as a temporary issue. I would certainly keep all of them and I have no doubt they'll be important parts of this team going forward.

The real problem with the team is that he coaching is still horrendous (until the assistants are fired and we get a real head coach), some of the secondary players are seriously detrimental, our goaltending is still ****ed, and the special teams are screwed (primarily thanks to coaching decisions).

 

[Adam Warlock]

Voracek for Tarasenko trade right before the game would be fun.