News Article: 30 thoughts: Maurice extension possible + systems + Buff

[allan5oh]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/ho...s-injured-nhlers-reignite-olympic-debate.html

8. Less of a surprise: Winnipeg using the break to start work on an extension with Paul Maurice.

9. One Jet said the biggest structural difference made by the new coach is on the breakout. He explained the defencemen felt they didn't have enough options to make plays because the forwards were taking off. The blue-liners are now instructed to wait or delay if they can instead of just getting rid of it, and the forwards are asked to take a more inside position than an outside one.

10. The Canadiens had all kinds of coverage issues with Dustin Byfuglien lined up as a forward. There were times when Byfuglien rotated back to the point when the puck was in Montreal's zone and another defender pinched. It caused some real confusion; an added wrinkle to the position switch.

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[buggs]

10. The Canadiens had all kinds of coverage issues with Dustin Byfuglien lined up as a forward. There were times when Byfuglien rotated back to the point when the puck was in Montreal's zone and another defender pinched. It caused some real confusion; an added wrinkle to the position switch.

I've loved watching that aspect of having Buff up front. You see it several times a game where the D-man can pinch in, usually along the boards, because while Buff was forechecking his momentum just takes him back to the blueline where he is completely comfortable. The D guy then isn't forced into a situation where he's totally burned by being that far in (as Buff used to do).

I think it's a huge aspect in Buff's value, that he can play both positions with ease. I'd love to see what he can do with linemates better than Olli and Seto.

It also adds significantly to his trade value, if the Jets decide to move him in the off-season. As a pure D-man he has value, but sometimes gets burned. As a forward parked in front of the net he has value, as Chicago showed in the Cup final. And Winnipeg is showing his versatility and usefulness in both positions.

 

[Duke749]

Interesting that they already are considering an extension..

 

[KCjetsfan]

I have yet to be convinced that Buff is not being wasted at forward. I really do want to believe, and I'm not super shook up about it yet since we are winning, but the only time I really notice him at forward is when he does things he used to do as a D-man anyways. Hopefully when Kane is ready again, it removes some of the need to play him at F.

Re: Maurice, it's hard not to think that he's brought about positive change with the Jets. I still question the decisions re: Pavelec, Buff and Thorburn but I think the team results merit a bit of slack on that front. I could see them wanting to tie him up quickly - I imagine he's probably turned some heads with what the Jets have done already in his 12 games and could garner significant interest elsewhere in the off season.

 

[Flair Hay]

All three points are great to hear.

Buff seems even better defensively as a winger than he was in Chicago. His instincts seem to serve him well. He's not better than Frolik as a two way guy, but it seems like he is at worst average with guys like Wheeler, Kane and Ladd. Maybe better than K and W.

I'm like a parrot when it comes to Buff at forward, I know. Don't care though, he's added a new dimension and improved offensive depth while allowing Trouba and Bogo more freedom and ice time. It's helping the team win games. Get the big man a two way center and a gritty 3rd line winger and we could be on to something here boys and girls...

If we can stay healthy, even when we cool down we have a legitimate chance at the post-season. Maurice's results speak for themselves and he's earned a shot to be more than an "interim" guy.

 

[Duke749]

I like Buff at forward, but not too much. I think giving him time at both positions truly utilizes him to the fullest. It truly adds something that other teams don't have and can be a struggle to defend him.

 

[Flair Hay]

I have yet to be convinced that Buff is not being wasted at forward. I really do want to believe, and I'm not super shook up about it yet since we are winning, but the only time I really notice him at forward is when he does things he used to do as a D-man anyways. Hopefully when Kane is ready again, it removes some of the need to play him at F.

Re: Maurice, it's hard not to think that he's brought about positive change with the Jets. I still question the decisions re: Pavelec, Buff and Thorburn but I think the team results merit a bit of slack on that front. I could see them wanting to tie him up quickly - I imagine he's probably turned some heads with what the Jets have done already in his 12 games and could garner significant interest elsewhere in the off season.

Buff is creating more chances at forward than Jokinen and Gooch combined. His gaffes may be overstated but it seems to me the team is playing more as a team without their best D being a rover. If we build the third line AROUND him with guys that suit his style (*warning: I believe Burmistrov fits well but don't want to start that war :p*) I believe in 9 months we could be talking about how we are a team with an okay 1st line and two 2nd lines.

Pavelec I agree with, but its sort of hard to hate on any tender when the team is red hot. Ditto Thorburn. I'd love to see O'Dell or Gooch there eventually with no Kane. Everyone's on the same page right now which is HUGE. There's times to play the odds and times to go with what's working. Maurice has a decent handle on it early on. Or so it seems. Pretty exciting times right now!

 

[truck]

Byfuglien has intermittenly created chances at forward, but on the whole, the 3rd line hasn't been great. They are going to be hit hard when this run of puck luck dries up.

9. One Jet said the biggest structural difference made by the new coach is on the breakout. He explained the defencemen felt they didn't have enough options to make plays because the forwards were taking off. The blue-liners are now instructed to wait or delay if they can instead of just getting rid of it, and the forwards are asked to take a more inside position than an outside one.

This has been a very obvious change and it is working. I was often frustrated with how fast the forwards (and D partners) flew the D zone, but I wasn't sure if it was a coached behavior. Seems it was.

 

[pucka lucka]

Buff at forward only makes sense if the team is trying to evaluate or showcase the rest of the d-core going into next year. You don't take a 25m/g top pairing offensive d-man and turn him into a 15m/g 3rd line forward so you can play Ellerby 15min/g. I know some ppl have a hate on for Buff, but reality is he is huge net positive d-man who plays toughs for 25m/g.

 

[GoldenJet89]

Buff at forward only makes sense if the team is trying to evaluate or showcase the rest of the d-core going into next year. You don't take a 25m/g top pairing offensive d-man and turn him into a 15m/g 3rd line forward so you can play Ellerby 15min/g. I know some ppl have a hate on for Buff, but reality is he is huge net positive d-man who plays toughs for 25m/g.

I agree with what you're saying. But i think the freedom and minutes it has given Trouba and Bogo makes it less noticeable. Trouba is also picking up points like a madman for a young defenceman that offers more than just offence..

The Ellerby minutes are scary, but long term whether it's FA or Postma, Redmond, whoever... hopefully we will have a better option sooner than later.

Plus it has also given us some offensive talent on the 3rd line, and created matchup issues for other teams defence.

Buff is overpaid for a 3rd line winger, but given the fact that he can still play D if needed, and that he is great on the powerplay... i dont think it's overly drastic

Like others posted.. i think if we can find a couple guys to play with him, we can get pretty good value out of him as a forward.

 

[Grind]

Byfuglien has intermittenly created chances at forward, but on the whole, the 3rd line hasn't been great. They are going to be hit hard when this run of puck luck dries up.



This has been a very obvious change and it is working. I was often frustrated with how fast the forwards (and D partners) flew the D zone, but I wasn't sure if it was a coached behavior. Seems it was.

same...its the exact problem my rec team has. the nearest you'll see one of our forwards once our d has the puck is center ice.

I'm also unsure of buff at forward still. Our d hasn't suffered as dramatically as I thought but i'm still cringing waiting for the wheels to come off. If they enver do i'll eat my crow.

that being said, Watching buff, he looks "good" as a forward, but I certainly haven't gotten the "awe" that some have. As otheres said, he looks good when he does what looked good when he was playing D. But it seems he's doing it much less.

I dunno. I think I'd rather we trade him for a winger, prospects, and picks, then play him in the capacity we are currently.

EDIT to supah and golds posts above:

Totally agree supah. We aren't getting burnt by the loss of Buff on D the way I thought we would, but I don't believe you can make the argument that he's anywhere near as valuable/impactful as a 3rd line winger then what he was before, and that's bad asset maximization.

If our d proves longterm we can swim without him, then he should be moved. "pretty good value" is fine when your getting it from a "pretty good" player- but Buff's a cut above that and the value we're getting from him is being favorably overshadowed by the W's.

 

[Flair Hay]

Buff at forward only makes sense if the team is trying to evaluate or showcase the rest of the d-core going into next year. You don't take a 25m/g top pairing offensive d-man and turn him into a 15m/g 3rd line forward so you can play Ellerby 15min/g. I know some ppl have a hate on for Buff, but reality is he is huge net positive d-man who plays toughs for 25m/g.

Personally I have no hate on for Buff at all. I don't even know if want him traded. I think despite what his advanced stats say about him as a player, he helps this particular team win more games when he plays forward 5v5 and point on the PP.

I think he'd be even better, as I said earlier, with a playmaking, two way center type. Scheif and Little both fit this mold, but Buff shouldn't be playing over Wheeler or Frolik in the top six.

He's averaging 18 mins/game which is about right for him. He can also make us a much more physical team on wing because he literally scares even above average sized defensemen like few others in the NHL when Buff gets them lined up on the forecheck. Plus he's more adept than our other wingers at dropping back when Trouba or Bogo rush the puck up ice here and there.

Maybe I'm just buying into the short term Maurice effect more than I should. But I thought Buff at forward could work in August, I thought it could work in November, and since Claude was fired->Maurice took over and it happened, and it has worked. So far anyway. My two cents plus some lol

 

[stimpsoncat]

The only problem I have with Buff playing forward is that he's playing on the 3rd line. If that's where he's going to play then we'd be better off trading him. I assume we would get more than a 3rd line winger in return in a trade.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm also unsure of buff at forward still. Our d hasn't suffered as dramatically as I thought but i'm still cringing waiting for the wheels to come off. If they enver do i'll eat my crow.

Our 3rd pairing right now is an absolute joke. They have regularly been getting dominated and exposed whenever a top 6 line from the other team comes on (often with 3rd and 4th lines from other team as well). Pardy is at best a #7/8 depth guy and Ellerby needs a more talented partner to be a regular #6 guy (as well as moving back to his natural LD side). Would rather go Ellerby-Postma after the break.

that being said, Watching buff, he looks "good" as a forward, but I certainly haven't gotten the "awe" that some have. As otheres said, he looks good when he does what looked good when he was playing D. But it seems he's doing it much less.

He's just a more dynamic player on the back end, IMO. Brings more high end value back there. I've always felt his defensive gaffes are overstated here and everywhere. There was just so much focus on him they get over remembered.

 

[Whileee]

Our 3rd pairing right now is an absolute joke. They have regularly been getting dominated and exposed whenever a top 6 line from the other team comes on (often with 3rd and 4th lines from other team as well). Pardy is at best a #7/8 depth guy and Ellerby needs a more talented partner to be a regular #6 guy (as well as moving back to his natural LD side). Would rather go Ellerby-Postma after the break.

He's just a more dynamic player on the back end, IMO. Brings more high end value back there. I've always felt his defensive gaffes are overstated here and everywhere. There was just so much focus on him they get over remembered.

I agree. I'd rather see Buff on a 3rd D pairing (with Ellerby or Pardy) than on the 3rd line with Jokinen and Seto. Obviously, it will be tough to move things around while the team is winning, but ultimately I think Buff belongs on D.

 

[BigZ65]

No more than 20 mins of Buff on D (including PP) and we'll be a better team.

 

[buggs]

I agree. I'd rather see Buff on a 3rd D pairing (with Ellerby or Pardy) than on the 3rd line with Jokinen and Seto. Obviously, it will be tough to move things around while the team is winning, but ultimately I think Buff belongs on D.

I think I like Buff better on D as well but I wonder what would happen with some more talented guys with him as forward.

Either way though, is 5.2 million going to be the going rate for a 3rd line forward or a 3rd pairing D-man? Yikes.

Happy to keep Buff but still can't let go of the rumoured return for him being a top six forward and a second pairing D-man, hopefully LHD. That would give us the freedom to put the new guy on the top two lines if he's better than Frolik or have a reasonable forward, much as Buff if in some aspects (you also won't replace some of Buff's talents without it being Buff) on the 3rd line AND bump Stuart down to the 3rd pairing with a more legitimate second pairing LHD. Love me some Buff but like to think about that return as well (Couturier/Schenn?).

 

[Grind]

Our 3rd pairing right now is an absolute joke. They have regularly been getting dominated and exposed whenever a top 6 line from the other team comes on (often with 3rd and 4th lines from other team as well). Pardy is at best a #7/8 depth guy and Ellerby needs a more talented partner to be a regular #6 guy (as well as moving back to his natural LD side). Would rather go Ellerby-Postma after the break.



He's just a more dynamic player on the back end, IMO. Brings more high end value back there. I've always felt his defensive gaffes are overstated here and everywhere. There was just so much focus on him they get over remembered.

yah thats fair. I was more talking to the success bogo and trouba have had in soaking up those minutes, Bogo especially. Bogo legitimately seems like whatever the defensive "system" noel had going just didn't work for him.

I would like to see ellerby-postma as our 3rd as well.


Totally agree with the assessment of buff, Im a big booster for how effective/important he is. I won't expect any changes until we start losing some games, but I don't want us to keep him around a third line 2inger and PP point man.

I'd like to see how this team performs with him on D in Maurice's new "system".

 

[Aavco Cup]

Interesting that they already are considering an extension..

He's performed pretty well in his job interview so far.

 

[truck]

yah thats fair. I was more talking to the success bogo and trouba have had in soaking up those minutes, Bogo especially. Bogo legitimately seems like whatever the defensive "system" noel had going just didn't work for him.

I would like to see ellerby-postma as our 3rd as well.


Totally agree with the assessment of buff, Im a big booster for how effective/important he is. I won't expect any changes until we start losing some games, but I don't want us to keep him around a third line 2inger and PP point man.

I'd like to see how this team performs with him on D in Maurice's new "system".

Bogo and Trouba have had some nasty giveaways of late.

Fortunately for them, the pucks haven't landed in the back of the net.

Funny how that can alter public opinion.

Not saying they haven't been good, but they have had some really really brutal giveaways. When Buff did that, he wasn't getting saves.

 

[garret9]

Bogo and Trouba have had some nasty giveaways of late.

Fortunately for them, the pucks haven't landed in the back of the net.

Funny how that can alter public opinion.

Not saying they haven't been good, but they have had some really really brutal giveaways. When Buff did that, he wasn't getting saves.

Most of us (including myself) have difficulty separating output and input.

 

[Flair Hay]

Bogo and Trouba have had some nasty giveaways of late.

Fortunately for them, the pucks haven't landed in the back of the net.

Funny how that can alter public opinion.

Not saying they haven't been good, but they have had some really really brutal giveaways. When Buff did that, he wasn't getting saves.

This I can definitely agree with.

 

[ps241]

Bogo and Trouba have had some nasty giveaways of late.

Fortunately for them, the pucks haven't landed in the back of the net.

Funny how that can alter public opinion.

Not saying they haven't been good, but they have had some really really brutal giveaways. When Buff did that, he wasn't getting saves.

Good point and in fairness Buff has benefitted from some great saves as well when he gaffed in the past. Also it seems like every error Bogo made earlier in the season ended up in the back of the net so maybe things are just evening out a bit. All three of the boys tend to make high profile mistakes which probably goes with the way they each play the position. Still the million dollar question lingers, since it doesn't appear any of them will be playing on the left side only 2 of the 3 will be playing in the top 4 for the Jets next season so what's the plan? I know we are focused on our run right now but one of these guys will probably be moved in the off season.

 

[Huffer]

Bogo and Trouba have had some nasty giveaways of late.

Fortunately for them, the pucks haven't landed in the back of the net.

Funny how that can alter public opinion.

Not saying they haven't been good, but they have had some really really brutal giveaways. When Buff did that, he wasn't getting saves.

Every D man that plays over 25 minutes a night is going to make mistakes and occasionally give the puck away.

I find it funny that some on here really think that our D should be playing 25 minute a night of mistake free hockey night in and night out.

 

[PostmanPat1919]

Every D man that plays over 25 minutes a night is going to make mistakes and occasionally give the puck away.

I find it funny that some on here really think that our D should be playing 25 minute a night of mistake free hockey night in and night out.

Arguably players who consistently make mistakes that result in opposing team chances shouldn't be the ones getting higher amounts of play time. I think truck's general point either way is that the Winnipeg are benefiting from favourable statistical luck rather than actually being a far better team (although they are definitely benefiting from better coaching). Probability would suggest that things will eventually even out and the team will no longer benefit from the generous puck luck they've gotten as of late.