Post-Game Talk: 3: Monday, Oct. 12, 2015, Panthers at Flyers (Dave Hakstol's first NHL win)

[BringBackHakstol]

Gudas looked far more mobile and adept with the puck than people here had been giving him credit for. Good sign

 

[WestrnPhlyr]

Great team effort last night!

Not too much more to add to what has already been said. Killing the double minor early I think helped build a bit of confidence that carried well into the game. I did like the addition of Gudas, although I do agree with a previous poster in that he seems like a guy who will get "reputation" penalties whether or not they are warranted. I thought the interference call on Couts was crap (so did he judging by his reaction in the box ) especially given the fact that he took a stick to the noggin about ten seconds before that went uncalled. I also thought the slashing call that sent White to the box was BS as well. Of course Giroux broke at least two sticks that went uncalled so maybe it evens out.

Oh and am I wrong or on the NHLN's postgame report did they have Luke's picture up while they were on the phone with Brayden Schenn?

 

[Hurricane28]

One thing about Gudas is that you get the feeling that he knows what he wants to do with the puck unlike Luke Schenn

The famous Luke schenn fake shot from the point then proceed to pull it back and give it away for a turnover

 

[FLYguy3911]

One thing about Gudas is that you get the feeling that he knows what he wants to do with the puck unlike Luke Schenn

Thought the same thing. He can do more with the puck. Not that you want him over-handling the puck, but he can make plays once in a while (and behind the back passes!). He has a good shot too. Didn't see it yesterday, but it's heavy. We know what Schenn is, but Gudas is still a bit of an unknown. He should be in the lineup on a more regular basis.

 

[Embiid]

The famous Luke schenn fake shot from the point then proceed to pull it back and give it away for a turnover

Do you mean the spinorama attempt at the line from last year? That was epic ...

EDIT: https://twitter.com/broadsthockey/status/429758937663946752

https://twitter.com/jerry_gaul/status/417166863102398464

Yeah that has been my contention with Schenn.....Gudas has more upside offensively and that is what Hakstol wants in his D men.

Luke would be a good expansion draft player at this point....it's not coming soon enough for him.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Do you mean the spinarama attempt at the line from last year? That was epic ...

You mean the one against Edmonton? That was two years ago, but I can't get it out of my mind either. Some guys just don't know their limitations.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Yeah I'd like to at least try both Schenn and Gudas in simultaneously before we permanently rotate them because they are similar players. They've both impressed me so far in their appearances and most people recognize that Manning just isn't NHL caliber as anything other than a call-up. So I hope this gets changed up soon if only to at least see how it looks.

Gagner is not impressive, but he has use at least and he played better last night than I thought he would. So I don't mind him as the guy who rides the bench and rotates in when injuries strike or someone needs a rest.

Raffl is fine on the top line. Was last year and logistically it also makes sense. He shouldn't be on the PP though, that needs to change. Our PP in general needs to start converting like we're used to. We have the same personnel as last year except with Medvedev and Gagner added as options (the former of which seems great at holding the line and getting shots through) and Schenn/Couturier seem improved. Really no reason Raffl has to be on the PP or for our first unit to regress much.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Manning's -13% gap between his OZ start and OZ finish is dwarfed only by Luke Schenn's -20% difference. However, Luke has faced far harder competition when he played, and despite that still managed a much better corsi than Manning. Even with Schenn playing mostly with the 4th line vs Manning mostly playing with the second.

 

[Embiid]

You mean the one against Edmonton? That was two years ago, but I can't get it out of my mind either. Some guys just don't know their limitations.

Felt like last year but yeah looks like from the tweet I posted it was in 2013...

Actually the other tweet was from Feb 2014......so I guess he's had a couple??

 

[Curufinwe]

Raffl is fine on the top line. Was last year and logistically it also makes sense. He shouldn't be on the PP though, that needs to change. Our PP in general needs to start converting like we're used to. We have the same personnel as last year except with Medvedev and Gagner added as options (the former of which seems great at holding the line and getting shots through) and Schenn/Couturier seem improved. Really no reason Raffl has to be on the PP or for our first unit to regress much.

I'd be fine with BSchenn going back on PP1, but the top PP unit created a glorious opportunity last night with Raffl out there, and Jake just flubbed the shot.

 

[MadFerIt95*]

His numbers say he's bad, the eye test says he's bad. But no, he's not that bad guys.

Well, maybe he is, but he made some pretty good plays

 

[SchennSational1022*]

I was one of main people on here against Gudas and he was exact opposite of how I described his play. Only took 1 game to make me look like a fool, hope he keeps it up. He really is nasty though, something I always gave credit for, and he really does impact the way other teams play against us if you believe it or not. He is that mean.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I'd stick with Raffl on both line 1 and the PP. He's not an elite player so you are going to get cold streaks and some frustrating misses. But most of the time G and V aren't going to struggle to finish like this. If one or two of their chances find their way in, we aren't talking about it. The trio had plenty of chances through 3 games and won't continue to miss so much moving forward.

 

[sa cyred]

On the defense talk...

I feel bad for Schultz. He is a good guy and not a bad player at all. He shouldnt be playing top pairing minutes though. He was getting wrecked last night against the Panthers top line. He really struggled.

I actually didnt think Manning looked HORRIBLE. Not amazing but I wouldnt say horrible. He still gets out of position way to much. Maybe that is why MDZ has not looked to good. That pairing just sucks overall.

Gudas looked pretty good. He struggled abit when he was in the offensive zone but played a great job on defense. Really hoping Hack can sit Manning for a game so we can see L. Schenn and Gudas in. MDZ with Gudas and Medvedev with Schenn.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, Gudas was much better than I expected.


Also, I can't imagine any way we win this game last season. The broken PK last year never would've stood a chance against that many opportunities.

 

[Appleyard]

Mannings 'advanced' stats even through 3 games have picked up where they left off in regards to the rest of his NHL career:

OZ starts: 70.37%
Corsi QoC: -2.032
Corsi rel QoC: -1.502

Shots for %: 38.46% (2nd worst amongst Flyers Dmen. Del Zotto 1st, almost identical.)
Shots for % rel: -16.67 (2nd worst amongst Flyers Dmen. Del Zotto 1st, almost identical.)

CF%: 42.50% (2nd worst amongst Flyers Dmen, marginally after Schultz who has been out vs top pairings starting 60% in the Dzone.)
CF% rel: -10.79% (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)

FF%: 40.58% (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)
FF% rel: -10.82 (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)

Scoring chances for %: 43.75% (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)
Scoring chance for rel %: -14.14 (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)

High danger scoring chances %: 44.44% (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)
High danger scoring chances rel %: -14.81% (worst amongst Flyers Dmen.)

He is playing vs 3rd and 4th lines mainly starting in the offensive zone yet has the worst stats amongst all Dmen in almost every shot-based or chance-based metric.

 

[He Is Knocking]

Wasn't that pretty much immediately after Thornton was trying to goon it up with Gudas? Hahaha! That was a great series of events, and loved seeing a Flyer answer some jawing with a nice clean hit during play.

Yes , it wasn't much after that was hi lighted by the TV crew.

It was written by some that Flyer fans would love Gudas's edge. I ain't complaining.

 

[RoDu]

Neuvirth really degloved Florida's evening

 

[Beef Invictus]

On the defense talk...

I feel bad for Schultz. He is a good guy and not a bad player at all. He shouldnt be playing top pairing minutes though. He was getting wrecked last night against the Panthers top line. He really struggled.

I actually didnt think Manning looked HORRIBLE. Not amazing but I wouldnt say horrible. He still gets out of position way to much. Maybe that is why MDZ has not looked to good. That pairing just sucks overall.

MDZ has been making a lot of strong defensive plays, and has used a physical element that we didn't see last year. He has won physical battles behind the net. I told an NYR fan buddy about that and he was positive I was watching the wrong player

 

[Beef Invictus]

degloved

I'm glad this is becoming a thing.

 

[Jtown]

some players will look regardless of who their partner is, mdz is not that type of guy. Some pairings he looks very good some pairings he is terrible

 

[FlyersFan61290]

The Flyers definitely aren't icing their 6 best d-men but I don't think the team could handle with both Schenn and Gudas. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[boxcar65]

Mannings 'advanced' stats even through 3 games have picked up where they left off in regards to the rest of his NHL career

Here we go with the Manning bashing again. It's almost as if everyone here wants the guy to fail and be sent to Trenton or something. These advanced stats give me a headache, and I don't think anyone really cares too much about them.

Here's what I know....he hasn't been on the ice for any opposing even strength goals, he is among the team leaders in shots and hits, and he is playing better defense each game. Is he going to make a bad pass or two each game? Sure, but so are all of our D-men. He's also out there quite a bit on the PK, so the coaches must somewhat trust him.

P.S. I am his long lost cousin.

 

[sobrien]

Glad Gudas got his shot. I thought he played well. He had that turnover in the 2nd or 3rd where he went balls to the wall trying to block the impeding shot, and then the hustle into the offensive crease to try and score during that series of great saves by Luongo was awesome. He's got some mobility!

Here we go with the Manning bashing again. It's almost as if everyone here wants the guy to fail and be sent to Trenton or something. These advanced stats give me a headache, and I don't think anyone really cares too much about them.

Is he coming here to play baseball?

 

[Appleyard]

Here we go with the Manning bashing again. It's almost as if everyone here wants the guy to fail and be sent to Trenton or something. These advanced stats give me a headache, and I don't think anyone really cares too much about them.

Here's what I know....he hasn't been on the ice for any opposing even strength goals, he is among the team leaders in shots and hits, and he is playing better defense each game. Is he going to make a bad pass or two each game? Sure, but so are all of our D-men. He's also out there quite a bit on the PK, so the coaches must somewhat trust him.

P.S. I am his long lost cousin.

I would love him to succeed... but he is showing no signs of (and did not in his previous seasons where he played for the Flyers, or in the AHL) of having sustainable success in the NHL:

He is playing vs 3rd and 4th lines.

Starting most of the time in the offensive zone.

Yet the team get out-shot when he is on ice.

If he keeps getting out-shot so badly the minuses will almost certainly come... and they will come hard and fast. And they will come with him eating up Ozone starts in easy minutes.

You may not like advanced stats... but if a player has poor advanced stats as Manning does the more 'tangible' things such as goals against will certainly catch up.

And it is not just the advanced stats... 24 games as a Flyer and he has rarely looked good on the eye. He was a below average defensive player in the AHL, so the odds of him magically becoming good defensively at a higher level are small. Also he has not produced at EV in his NHL time, and he will not get PP time in the NHL. He is a cheap place-holder for the future D.