overpass
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2007
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Who do you think is the second best power play quarterback of all time? Let's assume Bobby Orr is a unanimous #1.
Looking at the stats, I've narrowed it down to the modern options in the poll. These are Denis Potvin, Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey, Al MacInnis, Brian Leetch, Nicklas Lidstrom, and Sergei Gonchar. See below for the stats I looked at.
I'll include Doug Harvey in the poll also. The stats are less complete for his era, and it was a different time when defencemen shooting from the point wasn't as important. But I can see him as a reasonable option, either from reputation or from those few who saw him play.
Eddie Shore, Cyclone Taylor or other old-timers may deserve to be options, but we have very little information on power plays from that time, so I've left them out. Feel free to make a case if you think they deserve it, or anyone else I've left out.
Discuss!
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STATS
I don't think the answer to the question is here - that's why I posted the poll! But I thought I'd post the numbers I looked at in case people are interested.
The stats I used include:
Power play usage
How much did the player play on the power play? I measured this using PGF (power play goals for which the player was on the ice) divided by the team's total power play goals, and then adjusted that to a per-game level. Reported as PP%
Power play scoring
Goals, assists, and points. I normalized all numbers to a PP scoring level of 70 goals per team season. I also adjusted each player's stats on a season level for the number of power play opportunities the team had. All numbers are reported on a per-82 games basis. Reported as $PPG, $PPA, $PPP.
Team success on the power play
The power play QB is very important, and a great one should boost his team's numbers. How good was the team on the PP? For each player, I calculated his team's net power play success relative to league-average. (1.00 is average, higher is better). I also broke that down into 2 components - scoring power play goals and preventing shorthanded goals, since defencemen are primarily responsible for minimizing shorthanded goals. Reported as TmPP+, TmPP+(F), TmPP+(A)
Instead of using the player's whole career, I picked a group of seasons that represented their "prime", where they were used heavily on the power play and had success. Some had a longer prime to others, which is to their credit but may lower their per-season numbers slightly. It's a trade-off.
Greatest Modern Power Play Defencemen
Player | Seasons | GP | PP% | TmPP+ | TmPPF+ | TmPPA+ | $PPG | $PPA | $PPP
Bobby Orr | 68-75 | 560 | 97% | 1.56 | 1.49 | 1.06 | 13 | 41 | 54
Denis Potvin | 75-88 | 983 | 86% | 1.27 | 1.23 | 1.05 | 11 | 30 | 42
Paul Coffey | 82-96 | 1080 | 84% | 1.16 | 1.18 | 0.98 | 9 | 32 | 40
Ray Bourque | 83-01 | 1400 | 89% | 1.11 | 1.05 | 1.05 | 10 | 31 | 40
Al MacInnis | 84-03 | 1397 | 87% | 1.18 | 1.15 | 1.03 | 10 | 32 | 42
Brian Leetch | 91-02 | 864 | 92% | 1.17 | 1.17 | 1.01 | 9 | 33 | 42
Nicklas Lidstrom | 96-10 | 1121 | 76% | 1.26 | 1.22 | 1.04 | 8 | 28 | 37
Sergei Gonchar | 99-10 | 753 | 90% | 1.10 | 1.10 | 1.00 | 11 | 30 | 41
I included Bobby Orr's numbers so you can see why he's #1. Orr quarterbacked the most dominant power play ever, with far more goals, assists, and points than anyone else. He was even the best at preventing shorthanded goals. His numbers were probably boosted a little by the lack of parity in the league at the time, but they are still on a completely different level from everyone else.
Denis Potvin's numbers would actually look even better by isolating his peak. Just looking at 1975 to 1981, he had 13 $PPG/82 and 49 $PPA/82. On the other hand, the league was pretty weak and top-heavy in the late 70s, and he had great teammates, so his peak numbers may have been a little inflated. That's why I included his seasons in the 80s - I think they're also representative of his level of play. Note that if you want to use a 7 year period for Potvin, Bourque and MacInnis were both at 45 $PPP/82 from 1990-96.
You might think Paul Coffey is the easy pick here as the #2 offensive defenceman of all time. And he was clearly the second best offensive defenceman at even strength, but on the power play he falls back to the pack. Interesting to note that, unlike the others, his teams allowed more than their share of shorthanded goals. A sign of defensive weakness?
Ray Bourque's longevity in this area, as in all areas of his game, was remarkable. His teams were 11% better than average on the power play, less than most others. But unlike the others half of that value came from not allowing shorthanded goals, showing Bourque's ability to keep the puck in the zone. Bourque also may have played with the least talented teammates of any defenceman on this list - see below.
Al MacInnis's teams were very good on the power play over his career, despite a lack of continuity. His shot is famous, but he also racked up a lot of assists, and his team allowed fewer shorthanded goals than average.
Brian Leetch had excellent scoring numbers through his prime in the 1990s. His team was also very good on the power play, although they didn't have many stars beyond Leetch.
Nicklas Lidstrom's numbers are an outlier in this group in a couple of ways. He hasn't been used as heavily on the power play, and his scoring numbers are also a little lower. On the other hand, Detroit has had a superb power play almost continuously for the last 15 years, by far the best since 1980. They have had a lot of great players during that time, but Lidstrom has been the constant, and has certainly been a major reason for their success.
I wasn't expecting to see Sergei Gonchar in this group, but he has very good power play numbers over the last decade.
Teammates on the power play
Since I'm looking at team success for these players, it's only fair to look at who they played with. I've listed all players who were on the ice for more than 20% of PGF on the teams that these defencemen played for.
Bobby Orr: Phil Esposito 94%, John Bucyk 75%, Fred Stanfield 55%, Ken Hodge 46%, John McKenzie 38%, Carol Vadnais 23%
Denis Potvin: Bryan Trottier 58%, Mike Bossy 51%, Stefan Persson 42%, Clark Gillies 37%, Tomas Jonsson 26%
Paul Coffey: Wayne Gretzky 37%, Mario Lemieux 24%, Jari Kurri 23%, Glenn Anderson 23%, Charlie Huddy 22%
Ray Bourque: Cam Neely 24%, Glen Wesley 21%, Adam Oates 20%
Al MacInnis: Gary Suter 31%, Chris Pronger 20%
Brian Leetch: Adam Graves 40%, Mark Messier 36%
Nicklas Lidstrom: Tomas Holmstrom 36%, Brendan Shanahan 35%, Steve Yzerman 32%, Pavel Datsyuk 27%, Sergei Fedorov 27%, Henrik Zetterberg 22%, Igor Larionov 21%
Sergei Gonchar: Peter Bondra 36%, Sidney Crosby 33%, Evgeni Malkin 29%, Adam Oates 25%
Looking at the stats, I've narrowed it down to the modern options in the poll. These are Denis Potvin, Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey, Al MacInnis, Brian Leetch, Nicklas Lidstrom, and Sergei Gonchar. See below for the stats I looked at.
I'll include Doug Harvey in the poll also. The stats are less complete for his era, and it was a different time when defencemen shooting from the point wasn't as important. But I can see him as a reasonable option, either from reputation or from those few who saw him play.
Eddie Shore, Cyclone Taylor or other old-timers may deserve to be options, but we have very little information on power plays from that time, so I've left them out. Feel free to make a case if you think they deserve it, or anyone else I've left out.
Discuss!
**************************************
STATS
I don't think the answer to the question is here - that's why I posted the poll! But I thought I'd post the numbers I looked at in case people are interested.
The stats I used include:
Power play usage
How much did the player play on the power play? I measured this using PGF (power play goals for which the player was on the ice) divided by the team's total power play goals, and then adjusted that to a per-game level. Reported as PP%
Power play scoring
Goals, assists, and points. I normalized all numbers to a PP scoring level of 70 goals per team season. I also adjusted each player's stats on a season level for the number of power play opportunities the team had. All numbers are reported on a per-82 games basis. Reported as $PPG, $PPA, $PPP.
Team success on the power play
The power play QB is very important, and a great one should boost his team's numbers. How good was the team on the PP? For each player, I calculated his team's net power play success relative to league-average. (1.00 is average, higher is better). I also broke that down into 2 components - scoring power play goals and preventing shorthanded goals, since defencemen are primarily responsible for minimizing shorthanded goals. Reported as TmPP+, TmPP+(F), TmPP+(A)
Instead of using the player's whole career, I picked a group of seasons that represented their "prime", where they were used heavily on the power play and had success. Some had a longer prime to others, which is to their credit but may lower their per-season numbers slightly. It's a trade-off.
Greatest Modern Power Play Defencemen
Bobby Orr | 68-75 | 560 | 97% | 1.56 | 1.49 | 1.06 | 13 | 41 | 54
Denis Potvin | 75-88 | 983 | 86% | 1.27 | 1.23 | 1.05 | 11 | 30 | 42
Paul Coffey | 82-96 | 1080 | 84% | 1.16 | 1.18 | 0.98 | 9 | 32 | 40
Ray Bourque | 83-01 | 1400 | 89% | 1.11 | 1.05 | 1.05 | 10 | 31 | 40
Al MacInnis | 84-03 | 1397 | 87% | 1.18 | 1.15 | 1.03 | 10 | 32 | 42
Brian Leetch | 91-02 | 864 | 92% | 1.17 | 1.17 | 1.01 | 9 | 33 | 42
Nicklas Lidstrom | 96-10 | 1121 | 76% | 1.26 | 1.22 | 1.04 | 8 | 28 | 37
Sergei Gonchar | 99-10 | 753 | 90% | 1.10 | 1.10 | 1.00 | 11 | 30 | 41
I included Bobby Orr's numbers so you can see why he's #1. Orr quarterbacked the most dominant power play ever, with far more goals, assists, and points than anyone else. He was even the best at preventing shorthanded goals. His numbers were probably boosted a little by the lack of parity in the league at the time, but they are still on a completely different level from everyone else.
Denis Potvin's numbers would actually look even better by isolating his peak. Just looking at 1975 to 1981, he had 13 $PPG/82 and 49 $PPA/82. On the other hand, the league was pretty weak and top-heavy in the late 70s, and he had great teammates, so his peak numbers may have been a little inflated. That's why I included his seasons in the 80s - I think they're also representative of his level of play. Note that if you want to use a 7 year period for Potvin, Bourque and MacInnis were both at 45 $PPP/82 from 1990-96.
You might think Paul Coffey is the easy pick here as the #2 offensive defenceman of all time. And he was clearly the second best offensive defenceman at even strength, but on the power play he falls back to the pack. Interesting to note that, unlike the others, his teams allowed more than their share of shorthanded goals. A sign of defensive weakness?
Ray Bourque's longevity in this area, as in all areas of his game, was remarkable. His teams were 11% better than average on the power play, less than most others. But unlike the others half of that value came from not allowing shorthanded goals, showing Bourque's ability to keep the puck in the zone. Bourque also may have played with the least talented teammates of any defenceman on this list - see below.
Al MacInnis's teams were very good on the power play over his career, despite a lack of continuity. His shot is famous, but he also racked up a lot of assists, and his team allowed fewer shorthanded goals than average.
Brian Leetch had excellent scoring numbers through his prime in the 1990s. His team was also very good on the power play, although they didn't have many stars beyond Leetch.
Nicklas Lidstrom's numbers are an outlier in this group in a couple of ways. He hasn't been used as heavily on the power play, and his scoring numbers are also a little lower. On the other hand, Detroit has had a superb power play almost continuously for the last 15 years, by far the best since 1980. They have had a lot of great players during that time, but Lidstrom has been the constant, and has certainly been a major reason for their success.
I wasn't expecting to see Sergei Gonchar in this group, but he has very good power play numbers over the last decade.
Teammates on the power play
Since I'm looking at team success for these players, it's only fair to look at who they played with. I've listed all players who were on the ice for more than 20% of PGF on the teams that these defencemen played for.
Bobby Orr: Phil Esposito 94%, John Bucyk 75%, Fred Stanfield 55%, Ken Hodge 46%, John McKenzie 38%, Carol Vadnais 23%
Denis Potvin: Bryan Trottier 58%, Mike Bossy 51%, Stefan Persson 42%, Clark Gillies 37%, Tomas Jonsson 26%
Paul Coffey: Wayne Gretzky 37%, Mario Lemieux 24%, Jari Kurri 23%, Glenn Anderson 23%, Charlie Huddy 22%
Ray Bourque: Cam Neely 24%, Glen Wesley 21%, Adam Oates 20%
Al MacInnis: Gary Suter 31%, Chris Pronger 20%
Brian Leetch: Adam Graves 40%, Mark Messier 36%
Nicklas Lidstrom: Tomas Holmstrom 36%, Brendan Shanahan 35%, Steve Yzerman 32%, Pavel Datsyuk 27%, Sergei Fedorov 27%, Henrik Zetterberg 22%, Igor Larionov 21%
Sergei Gonchar: Peter Bondra 36%, Sidney Crosby 33%, Evgeni Malkin 29%, Adam Oates 25%
