Post-Game Talk: #25 | Penguins at Flyers | December 4, 2023 | Win 2-1 (OT)

[macleish1974]

Big Heat fav Gloria Grahame movie. Lee Marvin was the nasty SOB. Could not let her out mymind.

So.....Just finished watching Big Heat and Crossfire with Gloria and anti-semite Robert Ryan, another nasty SOB, both on DVD.

Good game. Good night/morning.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

they dont get the memo i guess!

I love how we praise a looser team more than we praise a leading eagles team in the whole league!

 

[mr4tno]

understood. if ticket sales demand it, then so be it. must be tempting for the organization to run with a good thing, especially if seats are getting sold. so it is up to you fans in Philly to make sure (a) seats are sold AND (b) the rebuild continues.

I was at the game sitting next to God, and believe me they were no where near sold out

 

[GKJ]

I was at the game sitting next to God, and believe me they were no where near sold out

The atmosphere tho

 

[Tripod]

Maybe it wasn't too early for Bedard

 

[BernieParent]

I was at the game sitting next to God, and believe me they were no where near sold out

I didn't know He was a fan. I thought quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[flyersnorth]

Always a treat to see the Flyers beat the Pens.

Foerster, TK, Frost, Tippett, Brink, Coots were all flying out there. Tippett in particular had so many chances - he just blew by that Pens player to get a breakaway.

Sanheim was a beast. Seeler had a solid game.

Hart was really dialed in and gave the Flyers a chance to win.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I didn't know He was a fan. I thought quite the opposite, in fact.

God works in mysterious ways, my friend.

 

[VladDrag]

Was a fun game last night. Each team probably should have scored 1 more goal. Good goalie play from both netminders.

Couple of thoughts:
-Reviewing the 5v5 xG stats, Pittsburgh seemed to have both better chances and higher volume of chances, but it didn't feel that way when watching it. It felt relatively even.
-The Brink-Frost-Tippett line looked good for the second game in a row, not outstanding, but really good. They are cycling the puck well as a group, just not finding the dangerous chance after the cycle. It will come if they are allowed to stick together (more below).
-Atkinson has looked horrendous over the last 5-6 games or so, but he's still somehow getting 18 mins a night.
-It's astounding to me that TK only has 7 assists on the season to date. He's not the 'elite' category of playmakers, but he's still very good. The pass he made to Foerster was sensational.
-I'm very happy to see Couts playing as a 1C. He's not a top 5 center in the league like he was 2017-2020ish (whatever that stretch was), but he's still playing like a top 20-30 center. Him keeping up that play is will key for the future of this team. I hope it lasts for another 5-7 years, but I do worry how his body will hold up.
-Tyson Foerster has a really solid last 5 games. The fact that the points are going it right now are awesome to see. I just want people to understand how much some of the underlying metrics are in his favor over the last 5 games. It's not likely that he continues to score like this over the rest of the season, just like it was not likely that he would continue the lack of scoring he had over the first 20 games. This is not to take away from what he's done, but for some perspective, if he continues to score like this, while putting up those types of numbers, he's going to turn into a Mark Stone-type player. I just don't see that as very likely.

 

[Curufinwe]

Does frost get overtime shifts?? Watched the winning goal. Just curious

He got one OT shift on Saturday. None last night. Torts even put out Atkinson and Tippett together.

Farabee also didn’t play in OT

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Worth the extra 2 points:
1) because it’s the Pens
2) because you know that troll that thought he was making us feel bad by pointing out we have a bad team, popped a blood vessel. Stick this W up your ass, dude!

Was a fun game last night. Each team probably should have scored 1 more goal. Good goalie play from both netminders.

Couple of thoughts:
-Reviewing the 5v5 xG stats, Pittsburgh seemed to have both better chances and higher volume of chances, but it didn't feel that way when watching it. It felt relatively even.
-The Brink-Frost-Tippett line looked good for the second game in a row, not outstanding, but really good. They are cycling the puck well as a group, just not finding the dangerous chance after the cycle. It will come if they are allowed to stick together (more below).
-Atkinson has looked horrendous over the last 5-6 games or so, but he's still somehow getting 18 mins a night.
-It's astounding to me that TK only has 7 assists on the season to date. He's not the 'elite' category of playmakers, but he's still very good. The pass he made to Foerster was sensational.
-I'm very happy to see Couts playing as a 1C. He's not a top 5 center in the league like he was 2017-2020ish (whatever that stretch was), but he's still playing like a top 20-30 center. Him keeping up that play is will key for the future of this team. I hope it lasts for another 5-7 years, but I do worry how his body will hold up.
-Tyson Foerster has a really solid last 5 games. The fact that the points are going it right now are awesome to see. I just want people to understand how much some of the underlying metrics are in his favor over the last 5 games. It's not likely that he continues to score like this over the rest of the season, just like it was not likely that he would continue the lack of scoring he had over the first 20 games. This is not to take away from what he's done, but for some perspective, if he continues to score like this, while putting up those types of numbers, he's going to turn into a Mark Stone-type player. I just don't see that as very likely.

He looks completely cooked. His skating and speed is degrading, not to mention his shot.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Seems odd.

Seems odd

Played less than 14 minutes on the night. Wasn't benched because he had some looks in the third, but got his minutes cut heavy.

Not his best game, not his worst. Think there were two things I picked up that Torts could have used as an excuse to cut his minutes:

1. The Crosby goal. He was the trailing backchecker. The 2-on-1 was probably a result of Farabee wandering, and Frost was deep in his shift and pretty cooked. But from the replays it looks like he might've been able to take one more hard stride and at least take Sid down if he dove, which was probably the right play.

2. The Too Many Men penalty. He jumped on way early, but it was as much Deslauriers's habit of not being able to get his ass off the ice that caused the mixup. But remember, bench minors are the players' fault because nothing is ever on coaching.

Frost had some real good puckhandling sequences and did some good GRINDING at different times, but also had some goofs. Took a puck offside that he didn't need to, and also had that gorgeous handle where he teed it back into the slot for a (wide open net) shot that got blocked, when he himself probably should have shot for a corner or a rebound. I think if he pounded it low it would've come right back to the linemate he was trying to pass it to anyway, and the defenders would have slid by that point.

Just for fun, though...their record with Frost in the lineup?

9-5-1

without?

4-5-1

Is that entirely because of him and his 5 points? No. But having another play-driving center in the lineup makes a big difference in their ability to control and win games.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

that 12th OA pick is sure gunna move the needle on this rebuild..

oh wait...

"cant you just enjoy the wins"...

 

[Philly Fanatik]

that 12th OA pick is sure gunna move the needle on this rebuild..

oh wait...

"cant you just enjoy the wins"...

That 12th overall pick this year with Cutter,Michkov and his couple goalie buddies are the rebuild! (Sprinkle in a 2nd pick for an older Couturier getting moved with a couple of free agent signings.
Then the Flyers facility attendants will change the motto over the locker room to read “As it always was”

 

[VladDrag]

Played less than 14 minutes on the night. Wasn't benched because he had some looks in the third, but got his minutes cut heavy.

Not his best game, not his worst. Think there were two things I picked up that Torts could have used as an excuse to cut his minutes:

1. The Crosby goal. He was the trailing backchecker. The 2-on-1 was probably a result of Farabee wandering, and Frost was deep in his shift and pretty cooked. But from the replays it looks like he might've been able to take one more hard stride and at least take Sid down if he dove, which was probably the right play.

2. The Too Many Men penalty. He jumped on way early, but it was as much Deslauriers's habit of not being able to get his ass off the ice that caused the mixup. But remember, bench minors are the players' fault because nothing is ever on coaching.

Frost had some real good puckhandling sequences and did some good GRINDING at different times, but also had some goofs. Took a puck offside that he didn't need to, and also had that gorgeous handle where he teed it back into the slot for a (wide open net) shot that got blocked, when he himself probably should have shot for a corner or a rebound. I think if he pounded it low it would've come right back to the linemate he was trying to pass it to anyway, and the defenders would have slid by that point.

Just for fun, though...their record with Frost in the lineup?

9-5-1

without?

4-5-1

Is that entirely because of him and his 5 points? No. But having another play-driving center in the lineup makes a big difference in their ability to control and win games.

Frost hasn't been deployed as much as he did last year. He's averaging right about 2 min less at 5v5 this year vs last year, so this game wasn't particularly surprising. He doesn't play a lot of 3v3 time, and he didn't last year when he was playing really well, either. He averaged 34 seconds of 3v3 icetime in 18gp last year vs 26 seconds of 3v3 icetime in 5gp this year. Although, last year, he probably played more in the backend of the season vs the beginning.

Frost hasn't been as good this year as he was at the 2nd half of last year. He looked good during the preseason, but after his first scratching it was pretty apparent that he lost some confidence. He played fine, not terrible not great, for those games that 8-game stretch prior to his second scratching.

However, since his second scratching, to me Frost has started getting back to looking like the player from the 2nd half of last season. The points are not coming, but he's consistently involved. A few games ago, he made 3-wonderful passes resulting in grade-A chances, all to TK. He's playing with speed thru the NZ and his puck handling skills are beginning to shine. The NHL EDGE data is showing he's spending more time in the offensive zone and less time in the defensive zone than typical forwards. It's clear that, right now without getting any better, Frost has established himself as a positive NHL player. I think there's another gear to his game, and really hope he builds off these last few games.

 

[Curufinwe]

He would have been scratched if Cates hadn’t got hurt.

 

[mr4tno]

Played less than 14 minutes on the night. Wasn't benched because he had some looks in the third, but got his minutes cut heavy.

Not his best game, not his worst. Think there were two things I picked up that Torts could have used as an excuse to cut his minutes:

1. The Crosby goal. He was the trailing backchecker. The 2-on-1 was probably a result of Farabee wandering, and Frost was deep in his shift and pretty cooked. But from the replays it looks like he might've been able to take one more hard stride and at least take Sid down if he dove, which was probably the right play.

2. The Too Many Men penalty. He jumped on way early, but it was as much Deslauriers's habit of not being able to get his ass off the ice that caused the mixup. But remember, bench minors are the players' fault because nothing is ever on coaching.

Frost had some real good puckhandling sequences and did some good GRINDING at different times, but also had some goofs. Took a puck offside that he didn't need to, and also had that gorgeous handle where he teed it back into the slot for a (wide open net) shot that got blocked, when he himself probably should have shot for a corner or a rebound. I think if he pounded it low it would've come right back to the linemate he was trying to pass it to anyway, and the defenders would have slid by that point.

Just for fun, though...their record with Frost in the lineup?

9-5-1

without?

4-5-1

Is that entirely because of him and his 5 points? No. But having another play-driving center in the lineup makes a big difference in their ability to control and win games.

I was at the game and everything you described is spot on with regard to Frost (at least in my head, the way I remember it). However, I think you could do a detailed analysis like this on just about anyone and come up with the same general results. I mean did Atkinson ever receive a pass cleanly last night? As you stated why does a no talent shit like ND get to extend just about every one of his shifts? It seemed that Sanhiem was fumbling the puck all night.....

I think we concentrate on Frost because we want him to succeed. Actually, we need him to succeed. And since Shit-or-rella hates talent, we are always holding our breath that the next mistake he makes will be his last as a Flyer. BTW, he does seem to be playing a little hesitant, so Tortorella may have already succeeded in neutering him to the point where he can say "I told you so".

 

[Rich Nixon]

I was at the game and everything you described is spot on with regard to Frost (at least in my head, the way I remember it). However, I think you could do a detailed analysis like this on just about anyone and come up with the same general results. I mean did Atkinson ever receive a pass cleanly last night? As you stated why does a no talent shit like ND get to extend just about every one of his shifts? It seemed that Sanhiem was fumbling the puck all night.....

I think we concentrate on Frost because we want him to succeed. Actually, we need him to succeed. And since Shit-or-rella hates talent, we are always holding our breath that the next mistake he makes will be his last as a Flyer. BTW, he does seem to be playing a little hesitant, so Tortorella may have already succeeded in neutering him to the point where he can say "I told you so".

There are two guys I focus on more than anyone when I am watching these games: Frost and Deslauriers. One of them because I am trying to detect what, if anything, Torts is going to use as an excuse to pull him from the lineup, and the other to see what, if anything, Torts is going to use as an excuse to keep him in the lineup.

And I agree completely that Frost is playing a bit hesitant. It's like there's a tiny bit of hedging going on in his head right now that is slowing his decisions down just enough to turn a very deadly chance into an OK one. That's what comes with putting a player on eggshells the way this coaching staff has with him. It might work with some guys, but with others, too much intervention just gets in the way. Frost, to me, is the type of player you should just leave alone for a few weeks and see what you get. You want to be making suggestions and tweaks when his confidence is high, not driving it down and asking him to rebuild it in a different context.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

There are two guys I focus on more than anyone when I am watching these games: Frost and Deslauriers. One of them because I am trying to detect what, if anything, Torts is going to use as an excuse to pull him from the lineup, and the other to see what, if anything, Torts is going to use as an excuse to keep him in the lineup.

And I agree completely that Frost is playing a bit hesitant. It's like there's a tiny bit of hedging going on in his head right now that is slowing his decisions down just enough to turn a very deadly chance into an OK one. That's what comes with putting a player on eggshells the way this coaching staff has with him. It might work with some guys, but with others, too much intervention just gets in the way. Frost, to me, is the type of player you should just leave alone for a few weeks and see what you get. You want to be making suggestions and tweaks when his confidence is high, not driving it down and asking him to rebuild it in a different context.

Frost needs to pull a Ghost and just tune Torts out and play to his natural skill.

hes gunna get moved anyways.