Post-Game Talk: 22/11/15, Devils 3 | Canucks 2

[thepuckmonster]

They're generational simply because they're identical twin superstar hockey players who each have an Art Ross under their belt. Which is just an absurd thing to happen in any sport.

But as individual players? Not even close.

And a Lindsay, Hart and lead scoring on two back to back President's Trophy teams.

Individually they're super stars (at the very least Henrik is) but together they are generational.

 

[tantalum]

When all is said and done they will be among 80 or so other individuals to play this game that have 1000 points. Henrik is already top 50 all time in assists (Daniel top 100).

Generational? I don't know. That term tends to be for the best of the best of the best. They likely aren't that but damn they have had just stellar careers.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

These guys are gonna retire 1000 point players in Vancouver uniforms. Some people just don't understand even that in itself is quite the feat. How many other teams can even say that, having a tandem such as the Twins lead the offensive charge the past 10 years has really spoiled some fans to believe this is just how it is.

 

[CanaFan]

I am.

I most certainly am.

Just like Jagr is a generational talent.

or Lindros or Pronger or Lidstrom or Chara

I shake my head at your shaking of your head.

You should really think about appreciating what we have right now instead of constantly complaining about what could be. You'll be happier that way.

At the risk of turning this into a giant semantics debate, the original use of the term "generational talent" was meant to describe a once-in-a-generation level of talent, the kind that dominates a league for a decade or so. Definitionally, you cannot have 5-6 "generational talents" playing at the same time. Chara, Pronger, Sedinsx2 are all in a level of talent below what Lindros, Jagr, and Lidstrom were. And even Lindros is debatable but injuries always leave room for that "what if" benefit of the doubt.

 

[CanaFan]

And a Lindsay, Hart and lead scoring on two back to back President's Trophy teams.

Individually they're super stars (at the very least Henrik is) but together they are generational.

Ugh. I dislike when people use the 'novelty' of their being twins as an argument for their 'quality' (i.e. The "generational" talent thing).

I really don't get why saying they are/were superstars is so ... not enough for people. The need to make them out to be in a class that includes Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Jagr, and Lidstrom is puzzling and quite simply wrong.

Everything they have done so has Joe Thorton. Can I hear some arguments for his "generational-ness"?

 

[Hit the post]

Since 1917.

Ask Wetcoaster; he's old enough to probably see that series in person.

 

[VanJack]

The twins are 'generational', no matter how many points they end up with...a 'generational talent' is a guy who changes the game with individual brilliance....Like Gretzky, the Sedins have changed the game in many ways....there's the slap pass on the pp, which every team now uses....before they changed the icing rules there was the 200-foot end-to-end pass...there's the 'ring it around the boards play', where one of the Sedins in the corner can either receive the pass or deliberately miss it, and dummy it back to point.....their genius is in their subtlety...doubt we ever see it again.

 

[DFAC]

I love the Sedins as much as anyome, but they are not generational talents. That term is reserved for guys like Gretzk, Mario and Sid.

Sedins are superstars for sure

 

[thepuckmonster]

I love the Sedins as much as anyome, but they are not generational talents. That term is reserved for guys like Gretzk, Mario and Sid.

Sedins are superstars for sure

If the current Sid is any sort of inclination as to how he's going to play from now on I'm pretty hesitant to call him generational and put Ovechkin in his place in the conversation.

 

[Addison Rae]

If the current Sid is any sort of inclination as to how he's going to play from now on I'm pretty hesitant to call him generational and put Ovechkin in his place in the conversation.

Sample size is way too small to be saying that. The only argument Ovechkin has is playing in more games otherwise Crosby has been better. Crosby gets tarnished a lot for whatever reason (similar to the Sedins) but he's absolutely incredible.

 

[DFAC]

If the current Sid is any sort of inclination as to how he's going to play from now on I'm pretty hesitant to call him generational and put Ovechkin in his place in the conversation.

He's having an off year for sure but I have no problem if you classify OV as a generational talent too.

 

[banme*]

Hesitant to call Crosby generational because he has 11 points in 20 games this year? Hm.

Also considering adjusted goal totals, Ovechkin should be generational too.

 

[kanucks25]

Ovechkin is definitely generational. Already arguably the best goal scorer ever.

 

[WTG]

Ovechkin has been better than Sidney for a while

 

[Addison Rae]

Ovechkin has been better than Sidney for a while

Absolutely not.

Ovechkin was marginally better last year, and has been better for 20 games this year. Outside of that Crosby was better for a good 4/5 years.

 

[WTG]

Absolutely not.

Ovechkin was marginally better last year, and has been better for 20 games this year. Outside of that Crosby was better for a good 4/5 years.

After sids latest concussion he really hasn't been the same IMO.

Which is really sad.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Addison Rae]

After sids latest concussion he really hasn't been the same IMO.

Which is really sad.

Just my opinion though.

Not the same, yes you're right. Crosby was absolutely tearing the league apart before going down again with a concussion in 2012/2013. That being said since he lead the league in points by a wide margin in 2013/2014 and lead the league in PPG last year. He's had a tough start to the season for whatever reason but the sample size is just too small.

 

[Peen]

Again, generational individual players? No, they were superstars. As a tandem? Definitely generational.

 

[WTG]

Not the same, yes you're right. Crosby was absolutely tearing the league apart before going down again with a concussion in 2012/2013. That being said since he lead the league in points by a wide margin in 2013/2014 and lead the league in PPG last year. He's had a tough start to the season for whatever reason but the sample size is just too small.

Ovechkin will go down as one of the best goal scorers ever in the NHL.

That to me, is enough to put him before Crosby.

 

[mathonwy]

How about Toews eh?

Or .. dare I say it .. Messier?

Can you have a separate list for generational captains?

Because Messier > Toews > Crosby on that list.

 

[Addison Rae]

Ovechkin will go down as one of the best goal scorers ever in the NHL.

That to me, is enough to put him before Crosby.

And Sidney Crosby is one of the best hockey players of all time, period. He has the 3rd highest adjusted PPG of all time behind only Mario and the great one. Since he's entered the league. Yes I know that will decrease over time as he ages, but it''s unlikely he even falls out of the top 5.

He's also an excellent possession player (the best possession player in hockey not named Sedin over the past 7 years) here are some examples of how well Crosby drives possession

Take a look at the Glass to Crosby scale, when you factor in pretty much every important factor in hockey Crosby still is the king.

Here's how Malkin stacks up

Kane and Toews

Hero Charts

 

[WTG]

2nd best goal scorer ever or a top 10 playmaker in the NHL.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Closing this since there is little discussion about the game. I've copied the last page or so over to the around the NHL thread, you can carry on the elite vs generational debate there if you so chose.