HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[le_sean]

It's a group decision, so when you change the scouting groups you'll change the results so yes it's dubious to look at their entire scouting careers, especially given that you don't know how they actually ranked players year to year. There could be plenty of times smaller players were ranked highly by either Bobrov or Lapointe but we don't know because their team didn't have a high pick or the consensus went against them. Not to mention it's the GM who would set the importance of things like size, skating, character.

But ok I'll bite, show me the examples of Lapointe drafting for size with high picks prior to the last 2 drafts? Because before MTL he wasn't involved as an amateur scout, and with Montreal before Hughes took over Timmins was in charge of the draft. So I'm not sure how looking at his entire scouting career is supposed to show something when he's never even been in charge before.

You just said it’s a team decision. Clearly Lapointe was very involved with Trevor. It was always him #2 to Trevor. You can tell how involved he was just by draft videos. Unless you think the Director of Player Development and Director of Player Personnel isn’t at all involved in those types of decisions…

“We are going to put you in charge of developing our prospects but we don’t want any input on which ones to draft” is quite far-fetched.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Based on the current standings:

1. Sharks: Celebrini
2. Hawks: Demidov
3. Ducks: Levshunov
4. Jackets: Silayev
5. Senators: Parekh
6. Coyotes: Eiserman
7. Habs: Lindstrom
8. Kraken: Dickinson
9. Flames: Catton
10. Penguins: Buuim

 

[Sorinth]

You just said it’s a team decision. Clearly Lapointe was very involved with Trevor. It was always him #2 to Trevor. You can tell how involved he was just by draft videos. Unless you think the Director of Player Development and Director of Player Personnel isn’t at all involved in those types of decisions…

“We are going to put you in charge of developing our prospects but we don’t want any input on which ones to draft” is quite far-fetched.

I have no doubt he had input but it's far feteched to assume that they agreed with each other completetly as well. So how can you conclude that Lapointe values size over skill with top picks given that you have no idea who he fought for us to draft. On top of that there were only 3 top picks, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and Kotkaniemi. For the Galchenyuk pick he was on the job for 10 days so it seems very unlikely he had much input, on top of which Galchenyuk was the most skilled player available at that spot. For Sergachev I don't see how that's a size over skill pick, Sergachev was arguably the most skilled player available at that point in the draft, and for Kotkaniemi all indications are that Bergevin demanded we draft for needs and go with a center, and again not sure how Kotkaniemi was not seen as the most skilled center available at that spot.

So it seems very much like they went with skill every single time. I'm not seeing where this size over skill narrative for top picks you claim exists.

 

[The Great Weal]

Based on the current standings:

1. Sharks: Celebrini
2. Hawks: Demidov
3. Ducks: Levshunov
4. Jackets: Silayev
5. Senators: Parekh
6. Coyotes: Eiserman
7. Habs: Lindstrom
8. Kraken: Dickinson
9. Flames: Catton
10. Penguins: Buuim

Why would the Jackets take Silayev when they got Werenski/Mateychuk? Lindstrom is the perfect player for them.

 

[le_sean]

I have no doubt he had input but it's far feteched to assume that they agreed with each other completetly as well. So how can you conclude that Lapointe values size over skill with top picks given that you have no idea who he fought for us to draft. On top of that there were only 3 top picks, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and Kotkaniemi. For the Galchenyuk pick he was on the job for 10 days so it seems very unlikely he had much input, on top of which Galchenyuk was the most skilled player available at that spot. For Sergachev I don't see how that's a size over skill pick, Sergachev was arguably the most skilled player available at that point in the draft, and for Kotkaniemi all indications are that Bergevin demanded we draft for needs and go with a center, and again not sure how Kotkaniemi was not seen as the most skilled center available at that spot.

So it seems very much like they went with skill every single time. I'm not seeing where this size over skill narrative for top picks you claim exists.

They didn’t pick small players in the 1st round. You can try to find your own justification to every pick, but they just didn’t do it other than Caufield who was a Top 5 talent falling into their laps and even then they basically said “he’ll help the PP”

In addition to the top picks you mentioned, you have McCarron, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling, Guhle, Mailloux. It’s just some weird coincidence I guess.

So yes when 90% of your 1st round picks are bigger players, I can say it’s a trend.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Why would the Jackets take Silayev when they got Werenski/Mateychuk? Lindstrom is the perfect player for them.

Different kind of defenseman and by the time Silayev is ready to play a big role, Werenski will be around 30.

They have Fantili + Sillinger at center, and a lot of good wingers, so drafting a forward isn't really a big need.

They could go either way.

 

[MolleSon]

With Caufield (5'9), Newhook (5'11) and Suzuki (5'11) in our top 6, it makes sense to prioritize size with our pick. Unless I'm blown out of my shorts by a small player a la Catton. At this point, I'd go with Lindstrom providing his performance when he returns.

 

[Sorinth]

They didn’t pick small players in the 1st round. You can try to find your own justification to every pick, but they just didn’t do it other than Caufield who was a Top 5 talent falling into their laps and even then they basically said “he’ll help the PP”

In addition to the top picks you mentioned, you have McCarron, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling, Guhle, Mailloux. It’s just some weird coincidence I guess.

So yes when 90% of your 1st round picks are bigger players, I can say it’s a trend.

Yet whenever smaller players they drafted like Mesar are brought up it's oh no that doesn't count he wasn't a top pick and they only consider small players when it's a late 1st or later. Bit of a double standard there don't you think.

 

[Vachon23]

I do agree that Eichel is clearly better than Suzuki, but I don't see 20 better centers than Suzuki this year. I'm talking about full time centers, not those who switch to wing to load up the top line.

I don’t rank a player on 1 season only but for there overall game. I consider what the players did the other season

 

[le_sean]

Yet whenever smaller players they drafted like Mesar are brought up it's oh no that doesn't count he wasn't a top pick and they only consider small players when it's a late 1st or later. Bit of a double standard there don't you think.

I said 90%, not 100%.

And the trend with Bobrov is he’s willing to pick a smaller guy later in the 1st if he and his team have multiple 1sts (2018, picking big players Lias Andersson and Miller, then gamble on Lundkvist later. 2022, Slaf then gamble on Mesar later).

 

[bcv]

Yet whenever smaller players they drafted like Mesar are brought up it's oh no that doesn't count he wasn't a top pick and they only consider small players when it's a late 1st or later. Bit of a double standard there don't you think.

It's also very naive to think GM/VP of hockey Ops have no inputs on the players they select, especially in the 1st round.

With the current management, the Habs have made 5 picks in the top2 rounds, 60% of those picks were 6'0 and under. It's a bit early to talk about a trend.

 

[Habsrule]

I want Winnipeg to lose in the first round and the Habs to draft Liam Greentree.

I had watched him live a few times this year and he really impressed me. He was on the second worst team in the OHL of Windsor who had a record of 18-42-8. He had a stat line of 64-36-54-90. The next highest scorer on the team had 66 points. He is listed as 6’3, 211 pounds. He uses his big body well to shield off defenders. He is a right winger.

 

[The Great Weal]

Different kind of defenseman and by the time Silayev is ready to play a big role, Werenski will be around 30.

They have Fantili + Sillinger at center, and a lot of good wingers, so drafting a forward isn't really a big need.

They could go either way.

I’d bet good money they are taking a forward. Werenski is still going to be a great dman at 30. Sillingner hasn’t impressed much these past 2 years. They desperately need forwards.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

With Caufield (5'9), Newhook (5'11) and Suzuki (5'11) in our top 6, it makes sense to prioritize size with our pick. Unless I'm blown out of my shorts by a small player a la Catton. At this point, I'd go with Lindstrom providing his performance when he returns.

I’m fine with Catton at 5’11. That’s not small.

Would obviously love a big skilled guy but the skill is more important than the size.

There are so many exciting players this year that will hopefully be available to us, I think I’ll be happy no matter what.

 

[le_sean]

@Sorinth just to end it by saying that I hope I’m wrong. I’m not personally advocating for them to draft like that and put size on a pedestal. It just seems obvious to me that the two in charge seem to heavily lean that way.

 

[Sorinth]

@Sorinth just to end it by saying that I hope I’m wrong. I’m not personally advocating for them to draft like that and put size on a pedestal. It just seems obvious to me that the two in charge seem to heavily lean that way.

There just isn't much evidence to support that. They haven't shied away from taking small players and you have to come up with all sorts of weird contortions to exclude data that doesn't fit the narrative. I half expect the next argument to be they only draft small players if the moon was full during the WJC.

Like everyone else if the choice is between a small but highly skilled player and a big equally highly skilled player they will go with the big guy. But there's little no evidence that they've passed on skill in order to get moar big. There's a lot more evidence to suggest that they will pass on players they feel lack character.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

I have a feeling that Lindstrom is a future bust, stay away from him.

Quote me in 6 years.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The real question is what to do they do if Lindstrom and Demidov is off the board.

Sure we can say historically size is part of their evaluation, with what short history we do have with this group.. but once Lindstrom is gone, the next top forwards are all pretty much not that big.. and Demidov himself isn't big either.

Catton is 5'11
Eiserman is an inch taller but plays softer and more perimeter
Helenius is also 5'11

That's it for top 10 rated forwards.

So, at a certain point the size factor isn't going to be there and none of their options play a heavy game. As much as I like MBN, I can't see them taking him at 6-8.

 

[Vachon23]

The real question is what to do they do if Lindstrom and Demidov is off the board.

Sure we can say historically size is part of their evaluation, with what short history we do have with this group.. but once Lindstrom is gone, the next top forwards are all pretty much not that big.. and Demidov himself isn't big either.

Catton is 5'11
Eiserman is an inch taller but plays softer and more perimeter
Helenius is also 5'11

That's it for top 10 rated forwards.

So, at a certain point the size factor isn't going to be there and none of their options play a heavy game. As much as I like MBN, I can't see them taking him at 6-8.

Iginla

Tij Iginla

 

[MrNasty]

I've seen Iginla ranked in the late teens or even 20's.

Outside of this board it's somewhat rare to see him inside the top 10.

Based on the average rankings (20 sources) so far.....his is 15th,.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

The real question is what to do they do if Lindstrom and Demidov is off the board.

Sure we can say historically size is part of their evaluation, with what short history we do have with this group.. but once Lindstrom is gone, the next top forwards are all pretty much not that big.. and Demidov himself isn't big either.

Catton is 5'11
Eiserman is an inch taller but plays softer and more perimeter
Helenius is also 5'11

That's it for top 10 rated forwards.

So, at a certain point the size factor isn't going to be there and none of their options play a heavy game. As much as I like MBN, I can't see them taking him at 6-8.

Not that it's worth much since it's obviously different from consensus, but in terms of my rankings the difference between MBN and 8th place would be roughly equivalent to the difference between Reimbacher and 5th last year. I wouldn't rule it out if they're determined to fill the hole at RW.

 

[Team_Spirit]

This guy has Helenius, Dickinson pretty high. Bad year for the Q..

 

[The Great Weal]

I don't think the size talk is that important considering nobody is puny in the top 10, but there's a very big difference between 5'11 Helenius and 5'11 Catton as the former looks like he's 20lbs heavier.

 

[Team_Spirit]

WHL scoring is up big the last few year

 

[Mrb1p]

I see a Jeff Carter type center. Shooter first type.

I dont know if Cayden has the ability to score 40 goals, not with his actual shot at least.