Prospect Info: 2023 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #6

Who is the Devils' #6 Prospect?

  • Tyler Brennan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Graeme Clarke

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nico Daws

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Josh Filmon

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Topias Vilen

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    107
  • Poll closed .

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
9,408
4,357
You are old my friend.
i swear im not!

i know how this looks after also stating i listen to 40/50/60s+ soul music lol

however!

im only going to be the ripe age of 30; i just enjoy doing some extra research on things im interested in lol

Bobby Bourne was one of our more notable draft picks who never played for us!

stayed local too and was almost PPG verse us with a +38, 58 in 62 split even for g/a according to StatMuse
 
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Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
19,523
4,538
New Jersey
Haven’t been following along but it is quite wild how many people are so down on Holtz.

His NHL minutes haven’t been strong, but what he’s done in his developmental minutes (like in the AHL) at his age is nothing to scoff at.

I might buy the argument of Schmid ahead of him, but in no way should Casey or Gritsyuk be ranked ahead of him.

I would argue Casey, Gritsyuk, and Holtz all have similar upside. Holtz is far closer to reaching that based on his pro level production to date. I don’t think Casey did enough at Michigan last year to change that. Maybe you can argue he was blocked behind Hughes, but still doesn’t change the ranking today. Gritsyuk looks promising and continues to improve, but nothing he has done matches Holtz AHL level production to date.
 

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
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@My3Sons what i really should do next is act like a normal fan and research our current prospects instead of our 1974 class lol

ive heard the name Gritsyuk and read he was maybe like Gusev? maybe im wrong

even though he didnt work out thats an exciting prospect at least!
 
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Guttersniped

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Grits. I almost feel like the list will need to get bigger at some point because this will get wide open relatively soon. Add Malek or Stillman.
 

My3Sons

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@My3Sons what i really should do next is act like a normal fan and research our current prospects instead of our 1974 class lol

ive heard the name Gritsyuk and read he was maybe like Gusev? maybe im wrong

even though he didnt work out thats an exciting prospect at least!
I don't think Gusev and Gritsyuk are very comparable. I did not watch Gusev at 20 or 21 so I cannot really comment on what he would have looked like but Gritsyuk looks quite capable when @Guadana shares highlights and shift by shift videos with us.
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
7,034
18,357
St Petersburg
Haven’t been following along but it is quite wild how many people are so down on Holtz.

His NHL minutes haven’t been strong, but what he’s done in his developmental minutes (like in the AHL) at his age is nothing to scoff at.

I might buy the argument of Schmid ahead of him, but in no way should Casey or Gritsyuk be ranked ahead of him.

I would argue Casey, Gritsyuk, and Holtz all have similar upside. Holtz is far closer to reaching that based on his pro level production to date. I don’t think Casey did enough at Michigan last year to change that. Maybe you can argue he was blocked behind Hughes, but still doesn’t change the ranking today. Gritsyuk looks promising and continues to improve, but nothing he has done matches Holtz AHL level production to date.
No. Gritsyuk is better skater, has ok size and skill, has results in better league, has better trajectory. Its a facts of evaluating prospects, their strengths and weaknesses.

Holtz could easily be higher in the real prospect rating if he will produce on nhl level, Hope he will make it right after start of the season, until then /for today he isn't better prospect in prospect devils rankings. Im not talking about picking the bottom by majority.

@My3Sons what i really should do next is act like a normal fan and research our current prospects instead of our 1974 class lol

ive heard the name Gritsyuk and read he was maybe like Gusev? maybe im wrong

even though he didnt work out thats an exciting prospect at least!
Both Russians and their last name starts from G? My last name first letter is G too. May be I should play for Devils too?
 

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
9,408
4,357
I don't think Gusev and Gritsyuk are very comparable. I did not watch Gusev at 20 or 21 so I cannot really comment on what he would have looked like but Gritsyuk looks quite capable when @Guadana shares highlights and shift by shift videos with us.
where can i find this?
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
19,523
4,538
New Jersey
No. Gritsyuk is better skater, has ok size and skill, has results in better league, has better trajectory. Its a facts of evaluating prospects, their strengths and weaknesses.

Holtz could easily be higher in the real prospect rating if he will produce on nhl level, Hope he will make it right after start of the season, until then /for today he isn't better prospect in prospect devils rankings. Im not talking about picking the bottom by majority.
Hard disagree here.

Gritsyuk is a full year older than Holtz. While he was an intriguing prospect, his first year that really made him stand out was his D+3 year. He maintained similar production last year in his D+4 year.

Holtz D+2 year was when he put up nearly a PPG as a 20 year old in the AHL. Those are phenomenal numbers for a 22 year old AHL prospect, let alone 20. Even last year he posted solid numbers, although he was in and out of the lineup due to mono.

Again, I like what Gritsyuk can turn into as a player. But we’d be lying to ourselves if we don’t acknowledge Holtz had better production to date than Gritsyuk did at the same age.
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
7,034
18,357
St Petersburg
Hard disagree here.

Gritsyuk is a full year older than Holtz. While he was an intriguing prospect, his first year that really made him stand out was his D+3 year. He maintained similar production last year in his D+4 year.

Holtz D+2 year was when he put up nearly a PPG as a 20 year old in the AHL. Those are phenomenal numbers for a 22 year old AHL prospect, let alone 20. Even last year he posted solid numbers, although he was in and out of the lineup due to mono.

Again, I like what Gritsyuk can turn into as a player. But we’d be lying to ourselves if we don’t acknowledge Holtz had better production to date than Gritsyuk did at the same age.
Better skating, results in better league. Better trajectory. Has skills too. Its just facts. Thats done.
When Holtz will make an impact in NHL(he can do it right from the start of the season) he immediately will going up in the rankings. Dont fool yourself with "But we’d be lying to ourselves if we don’t acknowledge Holtz had better production to date than Gritsyuk did at the same age." You don't have arguments of results and combo of skills for that.

I'm not talking about what was year ago. It was year ago. After that we have more actual info and results. Reason why I'm talking about potential rising of Holtz.

Gritsyuk result last season is top ten for his age btw.
 
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SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
28,107
48,398
NJ
Better skating, results in better league. Better trajectory. Has skills too. Its just facts. Thats done.
When Holtz will make an impact in NHL(he can do it right from the start of the season) he immediately will going up in the rankings. Dont fool yourself with "But we’d be lying to ourselves if we don’t acknowledge Holtz had better production to date than Gritsyuk did at the same age." You don't have arguments of results and combo of skills for that.

I'm not talking about what was year ago. It was year ago. After that we have more actual info and results. Reason why I'm talking about potential rising of Holtz.

Gritsyuk result last season is top ten for his age btw.
26 goals 25 assists in 52 AHL at ~20-21 seems more impressive than 15 goals 25 assists in 66 AHL games at 21-22.

Edit: i re-read and see you were not saying Gritsyuk had better production
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
7,034
18,357
St Petersburg
26 goals 25 assists in 52 AHL at ~20-21 seems more impressive than 15 goals 25 assists in 66 AHL games at 21-22.

Edit: i re-read and see you were not saying Gritsyuk had better production
Yeah. His previous season was great, his past season and how he is looking in NHL - that wasn’t great. Like I said, we have more actual info. And his successful performance in NHL should change everything. If he would just played in ahl and repeated 1ppg season, even with his skating, even with result in weaker league I would ranked him higher because of good trajectory and high offensive skill. Gritsyuk has good to very good offensive skills, but not on the level of Holtz. But better skating and better actual performance in better league(without bad performance in nhl) give him benefits in the moment.
Btw he can easily drop fast in the rankings, because SKA is a team with competition within the team, and he is a new there, if he will not find chemistry and will not give results right from the start, he could be send to the third line and produce less points there. Or he can produce 0.8-0.9-1ppg right from the start, we don’t know in the moment. We are ranking them in the moment with info we are having for now. May be Schmid will win starting job and will save more than 93% through the whole season. It will put him higher than our top defensive prospects.

and you are messing AHL with KHL and what was going on year ago. And forget about skating, trajectory and the fact of bad transition to NHL with bad year overall. For the development curve and rankings in the moment it’s a huge argument. Like I said - everything can change quickly.
 
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devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,544
11,813
Yeah. His previous season was great, his past season and how he is looking in NHL - that wasn’t great. Like I said, we have more actual info. And his successful performance in NHL should change everything. If he would just played in ahl and repeated 1ppg season, even with his skating, even with result in weaker league I would ranked him higher because of good trajectory and high offensive skill. Gritsyuk has good to very good offensive skills, but not on the level of Holtz. But better skating and better actual performance in better league(without bad performance in nhl) give him benefits in the moment.
Btw he can easily drop fast in the rankings, because SKA is a team with competition within the team, and he is a new there, if he will not find chemistry and will not give results right from the start, he could be send to the third line and produce less points there. Or he can produce 0.8-0.9-1ppg right from the start, we don’t know in the moment. We are ranking them in the moment with info we are having for now. May be Schmid will win starting job and will save more than 93% through the whole season. It will put him higher than our top defensive prospects.
Grit's season was a step back as well. Goals, points, shots, the per game rates for each fell.

Now I do acknowledge that Holtz's struggles in the NHL thus far are a red flag. And a very pronounced one given where he was drafted and how well he performed in the AHL. That transition to the NHL is a hurdle all prospects need to prove they can clear. Holtz is off to a bad start at this point. Grit's has yet to confront that hurdle, but Holtz's failed early attempts are more concerning then someone who has yet to attempt to clear that hurdle IMO.
 
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Guttersniped

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Does this guy care about the haters? Naw.
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
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St Petersburg
Grit's season was a step back as well. Goals, points, shots, the per game rates for each fell.

Now I do acknowledge that Holtz's struggles in the NHL thus far are a red flag. And a very pronounced one given where he was drafted and how well he performed in the AHL. That transition to the NHL is a hurdle all prospects need to prove they can clear. Holtz is off to a bad start at this point. Grit's has yet to confront that hurdle, but Holtz's failed early attempts are more concerning then someone who has yet to attempt to clear that hurdle IMO.
It wasn’t. He has a bad start, like all of his team. They changed system, twice. And than it’s a top ten best season for his age in second best league. If you don’t watch his game, if you dont know the context of the season and you are trying to judge only by overall rates, even if his overall stats are good and his overall game was developed, how are you trying to compare prospects, their game, how they looked, their potential, the curve of their development, how are you trying to judge about steps back or forward? By saying that Holtz season with bad performance in NHL and meh game in AHL(may be mostly because illness) is better than what Gritsyuk showed? By rates only? Guadana scolded you.

I think the level of redflagness of Holtz performance is little overrated. Jump isn’t going easy, but it’s not like 2020 drafted players are already playing for their teams. I think Devils should not rush him, and if he needs to, they can give him one or even two years of development.

Where he was drafted isn’t effect on his game and on level of prospect, it’s only about Devils expectations in the draft day. People crazy overrated draft positions. This is a logical mistake of thinking. The selection in the draft in fact does not affect on anything at all. This is just an assessment of specific players at a time when they are 18. We can say that sometimes someone is better at 18, because he matured earlier, but Holtz improved his game and results over time.
Its just an argument for rankings prospects now - Gritsyuk developted his game and showing results in better league, cant show problems with NHL(may be yet). Both aren’t playing in nhl, so lack of bad transition from league to league is an argument.
Every player from 2020 like Greig or Peterka or even Evangelista who showed legit game and/or production in NHL, should be higher in rankings than Holtz, because of smoothness of transition. When people are trying to put Byfield over Mercer or Jarvis in redrafts, they are fooling yourself. It’s okay to play potential game with young players, but when some of them are showing legit nhl game level and result, and other still don’t, this players are in different categories. At least in the moment.

I don’t think that Devils fans should really worry about Holtz for now. He is 21 yo. Mercers development spoiled the picture of Holtz development, of course previous season was bad, but again the context - most part of this is on the management shoulders. If he will not start the season in the nhl because he isn’t 100% ready and Fitz will trade him for meh compensation right after that, I will not be happy about it, it would be stupid decision.
 
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BurntToast

Registered User
May 27, 2007
3,382
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Saratoga, New York
I honestly don't understand Holtz’s struggles. I wish the org just traded him him.

From the eye test: Holtz played well in juniors, played well in the AHL, did well in preseason year 1 (got beat out by Mercer), played well last preseason enough to make the team, then got glued to the bench..

Here lies the problem for many prospects. Holtz has offensive talent, but they need him to be more of a defensive player to make the team. His only spots are 3rd or 4th line winger.

There is a real chance Stillman/Foote/Thompson beat him out this year. The Devils will spin it as Holtz’s fault. I just hope he has enough value to add in a trade.
 
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Buggsy

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Sep 16, 2009
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I honestly don't understand Holtz’s struggles. I wish the org just traded him him.

From the eye test: Holtz played well in juniors, played well in the AHL, did well in preseason year 1 (got beat out by Mercer), played well last preseason enough to make the team, then got glued to the bench..

Here lies the problem for many prospects. Holtz has offensive talent, but they need him to be more of a defensive player to make the team. His only spots are 3rd or 4th line winger.

There is a real chance Stillman/Foote/Thompson beat him out this year. The Devils will spin it as Holtz’s fault. I just hope he has enough value to add in a trade.
I truly don't understand what people see in Thompson.
 

Devs3cups

Wind of Change
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May 8, 2010
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I honestly don't understand Holtz’s struggles. I wish the org just traded him him.

From the eye test: Holtz played well in juniors, played well in the AHL, did well in preseason year 1 (got beat out by Mercer), played well last preseason enough to make the team, then got glued to the bench..

Here lies the problem for many prospects. Holtz has offensive talent, but they need him to be more of a defensive player to make the team. His only spots are 3rd or 4th line winger.

There is a real chance Stillman/Foote/Thompson beat him out this year. The Devils will spin it as Holtz’s fault. I just hope he has enough value to add in a trade.
Trading him after less than 30 NHL games where he’s been yo-yo’d in the lineup and basically 2 PPG AHL seasons would be a mistake imo.

This year will say a lot though. He should get a legit opportunity playing on a solid 3rd line this year, and go from there. I’m excited to see what he can do with Palat/Haula for example.
 

Guttersniped

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I honestly don't understand Holtz’s struggles. I wish the org just traded him him.

From the eye test: Holtz played well in juniors, played well in the AHL, did well in preseason year 1 (got beat out by Mercer), played well last preseason enough to make the team, then got glued to the bench..

Here lies the problem for many prospects. Holtz has offensive talent, but they need him to be more of a defensive player to make the team. His only spots are 3rd or 4th line winger.

There is a real chance Stillman/Foote/Thompson beat him out this year. The Devils will spin it as Holtz’s fault. I just hope he has enough value to add in a trade.

Well Foote could. Thompson had a very tough year in the AHL last season, not seeing it.

I’m mostly responding because you can’t be serious with putting Stillman there. C’mon now.

It’s going to be a while before Stillman can be considered a NHL defensive forward.
 
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