Prospect Info: 2023 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #16

[My3Sons]

Yeah, I actually see a sneaky benefit to how Russian players rights work, you can let later picks/project prospects cook for longer and then sign them at your leisure.

You get all the time in the world even if they’re drafted as overagers like Bardakov. Teams have the signing rights to overagers in other Euro-leagues for only a short window, we would get 2 years for a 20 year old like Bardakov anywhere else.

The NCAA is the other thing that extends the signing window, but the longer players stay in college the greater the chances they f*** off and sign with someone else. We’ve talked up Moynihan and Case for years and now they aren’t our prospects anymore.

I don’t see Edwards as more of a sure thing as Orlov, if Orlov thrives in the KHL at an early age then we’ll be interested in signing him.

I’m actually not all that confident we end up signing Edwards, we have his rights until August 2025. He’s a junior, it’s not unreasonable for him to stay as a senior, he could get a big role/letter by then.

If we sign Casey and make push to sign Edwards maybe it happens but it doesn’t feel like a sure thing.

if they sign Edwards it's likely after this season. He can do the deal where he plays a game and burns an ELC year which is presumably a big incentive to sign? If they pass on him after this upcoming season it's likely he at least looks for a less crowded left sided blue line. Making the NHL with NJ as a lefty is tough sledding for the next few years. Siege, Luke, Bahl, and then who? If you are Edwards do you want to slog through that and Vilen, and Misyul and whatever vet they might sign to be the seventh defender who sits in the press box most nights? If they offer to burn a year and have him sign in 2024 sure, but if he plays out his senior season I'd expect he goes to another organization and I wouldn't blame him.

 

[Guadana]

Yeah, I actually see a sneaky benefit to how Russian players rights work, you can let later picks/project prospects cook for longer and then sign them at your leisure.

You get all the time in the world even if they’re drafted as overagers like Bardakov. Teams have the signing rights to overagers in other Euro-leagues for only a short window, we would get 2 years for a 20 year old like Bardakov anywhere else.

The NCAA is the other thing that extends the signing window, but the longer players stay in college the greater the chances they f*** off and sign with someone else. We’ve talked up Moynihan and Case for years and now they aren’t our prospects anymore.

I don’t see Edwards as more of a sure thing as Orlov, if Orlov thrives in the KHL at an early age then we’ll be interested in signing him.

I’m actually not all that confident we end up signing Edwards, we have his rights until August 2025. He’s a junior, it’s not unreasonable for him to stay as a senior, he could get a big role/letter by then.

If we sign Casey and make push to sign Edwards maybe it happens but it doesn’t feel like a sure thing.

You can get Kuzmenko level of talent by later round pick. So we literally have Bratt, Sharangovich and Gritsyuk by later round picks from Europe. Good luck to find 3 players with top-9/top-6/top-3 potential from 4 drafts. And we are talking about to prefer NCAA guys. Thompson, Moynihan, McCarthy. Im not saying that we should stop to draft from NCAA, but talking like we should prefer NCAA guys even if they are not so talented because they want to sign deals for money in theory(theory doesnt work well with Moynihan and McCarthy), sounds strange for me. As for Devils fan especially. Devils are monetizing from absolutely opposite strategy.

 

[AfroThunder396]

How it helps with roster limit, weak competition for development and lesser talent overall? Potential desire to sign because of money? Thats all we have? Even with examples of Moynihan and McCarthy - that what makes Edwards better and EVERY NA prospect better?
Again, logical thinking - Orlov doesnt need to sign to stay under Devils rights, Orlov will not spend money and roster spot for development in harder competition.

And Orlov isnt in position, like any NCAA player, to sign with rivalries, who will thank you for spending the pick


First of all, why he should travel to play in AHL? Even than - Misyul is playing in AHL, McCarthy doesnt, at least for the Devils. This argument doesnt work
About guys, who are older professionals with polished game or very talented, isnt working too. He isnt talented? How you did understand it? Especially with his results in VHL and KHL games? Or you watched his game and made a conclusion? Older professional? So we can cancel every young player no matter how talented he is because he is younger only?

All of your arguments dont work in case of Edwards and Orlov. Because there are other REAL arguments for ANY prospect - talent(skill, iq), compete game for a role, results for a level of competition. If Edwards would have results of Casey in his first or even second year, at least it would be debatable. But he didnt. If he would have better expirience. But he is closer to NOT sign the deal and you CANT say he cant not to not sign, because he can. Because we literally have examples of Moynihan and McCarthy. And we have example of Misyul. And we have example of Zaitsev. So every... ABSOLUTELY EVERY word of your arguments about NCAA players and their desire to sign doesnt work. Players from Russia and players from NCAA can or can not sign with Devils. Both did and did not. At least Zaitsev will not play against Devils.

So without any conversation with Edwards will he sign or not... all we can do is look at evidence in front of us.
And all we have now is Orlov and Edwards, where Edwards is closer to be free agent, didnt really pan out for now, playing in weaker league, older, and his positional game isnt on the great level. Is he a good prospect? On my taste - he is. He is a better prospect than Orlov. No, he dont. For now, everything can change.

I'm not sure there's any point in continuing this, we are clearly talking past each other. You are arguing against points I didn't make and things I didn't say.

If Orlov is as good as you say, he shouldn't be stashed away in Europe - he should be playing in New Jersey and helping this team win a Stanley Cup. If he's not good enough to play for New Jersey, he needs to be some place that is best for his development. I don't think that's the KHL (or the MHL, where he played most of his season), I think it's the AHL. That's where he will be working with Devils coaches and Devils trainers and Devils nutritionists, playing on North American ice and learning the skills the Devils specifically want him to learn while building chemistry with other Devils prospects. It gives the team more control over his development, and if they don't see a future for him in New Jersey then they can trade him for a better return. If you disagree, that's fine.

My original post said that I though Edwards would play pro games in North America before Orlov. That's it, that's all I said. And I stand by it. I think Edwards will be signed this spring and play games for Utica in March or April. Because that's typical for college players to do that at the end of their 2nd or 3rd season. It's not typical for Russian players with contracts to leave their homes to play in the AHL for less money and no promise of an NHL career. It happens, but not often. Seems pretty straightforward to me, I'm not sure why we're both wasting our time arguing about this.

If/when Orlov comes over I will update my rankings accordingly.

 

[Guadana]

I'm not sure there's any point in continuing this, we are clearly talking past each other. You are arguing against points I didn't make and things I didn't say.

If Orlov is as good as you say, he shouldn't be stashed away in Europe - he should be playing in New Jersey and helping this team win a Stanley Cup. If he's not good enough to play for New Jersey, he needs to be some place that is best for his development. I don't think that's the KHL (or the MHL, where he played most of his season), I think it's the AHL. That's where he will be working with Devils coaches and Devils trainers and Devils nutritionists, playing on North American ice and learning the skills the Devils specifically want him to learn while building chemistry with other Devils prospects. It gives the team more control over his development, and if they don't see a future for him in New Jersey then they can trade him for a better return. If you disagree, that's fine.

My original post said that I though Edwards would play pro games in North America before Orlov. That's it, that's all I said. And I stand by it. I think Edwards will be signed this spring and play games for Utica in March or April. Because that's typical for college players to do that at the end of their 2nd or 3rd season. It's not typical for Russian players with contracts to leave their homes to play in the AHL for less money and no promise of an NHL career. It happens, but not often. Seems pretty straightforward to me, I'm not sure why we're both wasting our time arguing about this.

If/when Orlov comes over I will update my rankings accordingly.

Its not AHL, its KHL. You can check how many nhl size rinks are in KHL now. I see you no nothing about and you should more study to make conclusion. And I feel you need to do it by yourself. Overall he needs to play in better league where he will play in the next three years. Like I said before, Devils have roster limit(you can read about it on cap friendly) and they dont have any room for left defensemen, and they are happy to have good prospect on good league under control without sign the deal.

I am more confident that Edwards will play pro games in North America than I am that Orlov will play pro games in North America.

Your original post was about confidence for his future. Like I said, he isnt on the better trajectory for now and he can choose different direction and taste the market like we already saw with McCarthy and Moynihan. Orlov cant do it, he can only stay. So your argument isnt working.

And if you are the person who rank NA players higher just because they are closer, than you should say it with honest "I dont care that Misyul is playing in NA now, I dont care that Moynihan, McCarthy lefted us, I dont care that Edwards can left us easily and I dont care that Orlov has much better results for his leagues\role\age. Edwards is NA skater and he is better just because he is NA skater, Orlov is Russian and until he isnt in NA I dont care about him. Even with better hockey tools potentially. Even if AHL isnt better league for his development, because most of the Russian good players develop their game in Russia. I dont care". That would be fair. Without unsuccessful attempts to cover up your attitude with non-working hockey arguments