GDT: 2023-24 season game 73 LA Kings vs Calgary Flames @7:00pm 3/30/24

[kilowatt]

Pierre Lacks Dick with 35 points. I figured 40 points would be a dissapoitment but this is a disaster.

Hard to believe that he might not crack 40 this year. This is absolutely worst-case scenario territory.

 

[Nasti]

Hard to believe that he might not crack 40 this year. This is absolutely worst-case scenario territory.

Even a cooked Mike Richards had 41 points in 2013-14.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Even a cooked Mike Richards had 41 points in 2013-14.

Under Daryl Sutter... in an era where scoring was down.

I'd equate that 41 point season to a 55 point season by todays standards.

 

[kilowatt]

Under Daryl Sutter... in an era where scoring was down.

I'd equate that 41 point season to a 55 point season by todays standards.

It was good enough for fourth on the team. Kopitar had 70, Carter had 50, Williams had 43. A year later, Richards had only 5 goals and 16 points in 53 games. It can in fact get worse.

 

[Nasti]

It was good enough for fourth on the team. Kopitar had 70, Carter had 50, Williams had 43. A year later, Richards had only 5 goals and 16 points in 53 games. It can in fact get worse.

And Lombardi didn’t use his compliance buyout after 2014 because the Kings had just won another cup and had gotten Richards’s word that he’d put in the effort to turn it around. But compliance buyout was definitely on the table for a performance and cap hit that wasn’t as bad as PLD’s.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes. Blake said in the beginning of his tenure that players have fun scoring, and they want to play an up-tempo game that would be more fun for the players.

Over the course of the season, there are fewer players getting reps in practice, meaning over the same time, the fewer players are getting more reps.

Compound that with not having young players you can trust due to a developmental disconnect, the vets end up being overplayed.

This isn't about icing fewer than 20 people in a game. In the regular season, there were shortened resources to manage a day-to-day roster. That wears on the resources.

They had some reprieve when Arvidsson was injured and they could go over the cap. But having several injuries is a normal thing to expect. The difference is that Blake put himself behind the 8 ball by limiting his resources to manage the roster efficiently throughthe injuries.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on practice, I don't think it's as physical as you think it is, 45 minute hard skates....or 75 minutes if they are going over schematics etc,

There's a not a single player that is "overplayed" if they are, they are in the wrong league/wrong sport. But you said young players you can't trust....Kaliyev....and who? Bjornfoot?

Not many days in the regular season did they have less than 23 bodies....

 

[AbsentMojo]

Even a cooked Mike Richards had 41 points in 2013-14.

Hmm maybe thats what CBathe meant by let them cook... because they seem cooked to me

 

[kingsfan28]

Why can’t the Kings lack of talent be blamed?

Look around at what the contenders in this conference are trotting out there, you think the Kings can compete?

Edmonton has two hall-of-fame superstars in their primes, the highest scoring d-man in the league since the calendar turned and a 55-60 goal guy.

Vancouver has EP, Hughes, Miller, all going to be 90 point players.

Colorado has two 100+ point scorers, Makar and Mac both consensus top 8 players in the NHL.

The Kings leading goal-scorer is Trevor Moore. How many players on the Kings would be playing a 1st line role for any of the Top 10 teams in the NHL? This team has very serious lack of talent issues, I can't believe people would say otherwise.

It does help a lot when 2 of the 3 teams you listed end up nailing the #1 pick , one being generational, and the other being as good as a top pick can be. Then nail another elite dman at #4 , four years later , who would go #1 in any redraft.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It does help a lot when 2 of the 3 teams you listed end up nailing the #1 pick , one being generational, and the other being as good as a top pick can be. Then nail another elite dman at #4 , four years later , who would go #1 in any redraft.

It’s almost as if tanking and rebuilding with high draft picks is an important part of building a contender.

 

[Herby]

It does help a lot when 2 of the 3 teams you listed end up nailing the #1 pick , one being generational, and the other being as good as a top pick can be. Then nail another elite dman at #4 , four years later , who would go #1 in any redraft.

That is why you should be picking high until you have your pieces. And the most proven way to get those pieces is through the draft. Is there some luck involved? Sure, just like there was luck in getting the 2nd and 3rd best players in the 2005 draft with picks 11 and 72

But despite knowing what the competition had and how almost every cup winner had been constructed, Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille decided to not only end the rebuild without the prerequisite pieces, but then proceeded to trade away a bunch of 1st/2nd round picks and the likely rookie of the year this year.

What was the Kings pathway to contending vs. these teams? The Kings ending their rebuild made no sense, but then again very little that Blake and Luc have done does.

 

[kingsfan28]

It’s almost as if tanking and rebuilding with high draft picks is an important part of building a contender.

It help when you get the top pick that isn't Alexis Lafreniere . You also have to hit on those high picks too. Lots of luck involved with drafting.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It’s almost as if tanking and rebuilding with high draft picks is an important part of building a contender.

100%, because Ottawa, 11, 4, 3, 5, 10 have done a bangup job, or was it Buffalo with their 2, 2, 8, 8, 1, 7, 8 , 9, 1 wait no...it was Detroit with their 9, 6, 4, 4. 6. 8. 9

Wait, it's Boston with their 14, 15, 57, 30, 48, 21, 24 or New York Rangers with their 81, 7, 9, 2, 1, 16, 63, 23...

Extremely important.

Wait, can't forget Edmonton, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,

 

[Bandit]

It was good enough for fourth on the team. Kopitar had 70, Carter had 50, Williams had 43. A year later, Richards had only 5 goals and 16 points in 53 games. It can in fact get worse.

 

[tigermask48]

You might be sarcastic, but that sounded like the last podcast from Mayors Manor. They were discussing how the Kings play can matchup and beat any team in the league.

The ole 1-3-1 psychosis.

Would love to ask him how that's work out the last 2 years for the Kings, just to watch the smoke escape his ears.

 

[Nasti]

100%, because Ottawa, 11, 4, 3, 5, 10 have done a bangup job, or was it Buffalo with their 2, 2, 8, 8, 1, 7, 8 , 9, 1 wait no...it was Detroit with their 9, 6, 4, 4. 6. 8. 9

Wait, it's Boston with their 14, 15, 57, 30, 48, 21, 24 or New York Rangers with their 81, 7, 9, 2, 1, 16, 63, 23...

Extremely important.

Wait, can't forget Edmonton, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,

Well the Bruins and Rangers haven’t won any cups in the past decade. In that time, only St Louis and Vegas have won without having a player drafted in the top 2 playing a significant role. Vegas was obviously a special circumstance that no team other than Seattle could replicate due to the expansion draft.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Well the Bruins and Rangers haven’t won any cups in the past decade. In that time, only St Louis and Vegas have won without having a player drafted in the top 2 playing a significant role. Vegas was obviously a special circumstance that no team other than Seattle could replicate due to the expansion draft.

Ok, now keep going with that, how many teams that HAVE had a #1, #2, haven't won a cup? Willing to bet a shit ton more....

Does having a #1 over a #58 or a #79 work better....absolutely, unless you are taking a Kakko over a Kucherov or a Laferriere over a Point.....

Boston and NYR have been one of the top teams in the past decaded that are ALWAYS talked about as cup favorites.....while yes, winning the cup is the ultimate goal, would you rather have your team have a chance at every year for a decade.....or be Buffalo?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It help when you get the top pick that isn't Alexis Lafreniere . You also have to hit on those high picks too. Lots of luck involved with drafting.

Lafreniere is having a great season. He’s neck and neck with Byfield.

Also like Byfield, there’s an argument to be made that his development was botched by bringing him onto a team still trying to win now.

Of course there’s luck with drafting. The sky is indeed blue. But the luck required to hit on top five picks is substantially lower than the luck required to hit on later picks.

 

[kingsfan28]

Lafreniere is having a great season. He’s neck and neck with Byfield.

Also like Byfield, there’s an argument to be made that his development was botched by bringing him onto a team still trying to win now.

Of course there’s luck with drafting. The sky is indeed blue. But the luck required to hit on top five picks is substantially lower than the luck required to hit on later picks.

Still, for the number one pick in the draft, you'd expect more right? Maybe expectations with him were too high as well.

 

[kingsfan28]

100%, because Ottawa, 11, 4, 3, 5, 10 have done a bangup job, or was it Buffalo with their 2, 2, 8, 8, 1, 7, 8 , 9, 1 wait no...it was Detroit with their 9, 6, 4, 4. 6. 8. 9

Wait, it's Boston with their 14, 15, 57, 30, 48, 21, 24 or New York Rangers with their 81, 7, 9, 2, 1, 16, 63, 23...

Extremely important.

Wait, can't forget Edmonton, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,

Still can't believe they couldn't figure it out with all those #1's. Hall, RNH, Mcdavid,Yak, then add in Pujarvi and Driasitl and Nurse.

 

[AbsentMojo]

100%, because Ottawa, 11, 4, 3, 5, 10 have done a bangup job, or was it Buffalo with their 2, 2, 8, 8, 1, 7, 8 , 9, 1 wait no...it was Detroit with their 9, 6, 4, 4. 6. 8. 9

Wait, it's Boston with their 14, 15, 57, 30, 48, 21, 24 or New York Rangers with their 81, 7, 9, 2, 1, 16, 63, 23...

Extremely important.

Wait, can't forget Edmonton, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,1,1,1,1,1,

Lol re 1,1,1,1,1,1 for EDM.

Your line of reasoning doesnt disprove "settlements" premise.. it just shows that tanking doesnt guarantee success. I guess if you want to disprove the tank to contend - come up with a team that won the cup without any top draft picks. I cant think of anyone. The point can be made that its not clear cut decision when to end the rebuild and start going for it.. now that is something that can be argued all day long.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Ah, figure it’s REDACTED making an argument against drafting 1st overall.

Maybe one day I’ll take this genius off ignore and ask him how happy he is with Blake’s winning philosophy.

Still, for the number one pick in the draft, you'd expect more right? Maybe expectations with him were too high as well.

Okay?

Are you making the argument that #1 picks don’t guarantee superstars? Because no one is saying otherwise.

 

[Surf Nutz]

With Danault out, this was a game where you need/expect PLD to step up. So much for that. Typical C- effort from him.

Also, big surprise, we're near the end of the season and Lizotte it beat up again. 2 for 12 on FO's tonight BTW.

So we were essentially a one center team tonight, and that center happens to be 36 years old.

Byfield to Center!

Blakes poo poo soufle has officially collapsed. And, now we can add 11-7 to the other LAK failure numerology of 1-3-1 and 8-9-11

After 2 or3 losses with it?

Maybe you are on to something though, they looked tired.

Grunny sack is coming back anyway,

 

[Statto]

Ok, now keep going with that, how many teams that HAVE had a #1, #2, haven't won a cup? Willing to bet a shit ton more....

Does having a #1 over a #58 or a #79 work better....absolutely, unless you are taking a Kakko over a Kucherov or a Laferriere over a Point.....

Boston and NYR have been one of the top teams in the past decaded that are ALWAYS talked about as cup favorites.....while yes, winning the cup is the ultimate goal, would you rather have your team have a chance at every year for a decade.....or be Buffalo?

I 100% agree with the notion that you need to be competitive every year. However that's where things have gone wrong because the way BLuc have done it (I still think Luc is by far the bigger issue) that isn’t going to happen. They haven’t taken that approach. The depth is gone and there are still significant holes.

I absolutely have no issue with not trading Kopi/Doughty if they were going to be used as scaffolding for supporting the growth of the younger guys. Unfortunately they changed course after a strong start to the rebuild, which was always going to be Luc’s call strategically. We can argue about the specific decisions all day long… Danault? Arvidsson? (One not both was probably a better call)… Vilardi… Faber…. We have a strategy where 11 & 8 are the centre pieces which at their respective ages is a recipe more likely to fail than succeed.

Yes, luck plays a huge part but it starts with the right strategy and they got it wrong by at least 2 years. They could have had 3-4 extra genuine top NHL players from another couple of years drafting and more assets in general to work with. More importantly they’d have been cost controlled. Filling the remaining holes would have been much easier. No guarantees but they’d have then had the asset pool to take that ‘competitive every year’ approach by filling holes then having the next wave of cheap talent ready to step up. Instead the cupboards are bare and the roster issues are obvious. It didn’t need much more patience.

The Faber trade looks questionable but at the time no one saw this past season as a rookie coming from him (certainly not at the time of the trade). I was always behind the pick but they followed the old adage of trading from a position of strength which means I can live with that one. The PLD trade is the one that will cost Blake his job, mostly because of the contract… even if PLD puts it together and plays his best from here on in.

Sure they might get lucky and hit form at the right time and get into the 2nd round, they might get lucky and draft a couple of HOF guys in the next draft but when the strategy is hinged on getting VERY lucky, it’s wrong.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I 100% agree with the notion that you need to be competitive every year. However that's where things have gone wrong because the way BLuc have done it (I still think Luc is by far the bigger issue) that isn’t going to happen. They haven’t taken that approach. The depth is gone and there are still significant holes.

I absolutely have no issue with not trading Kopi/Doughty if they were going to be used as scaffolding for supporting the growth of the younger guys. Unfortunately they changed course after a strong start to the rebuild, which was always going to be Luc’s call strategically. We can argue about the specific decisions all day long… Danault? Arvidsson? (One not both was probably a better call)… Vilardi… Faber…. We have a strategy where 11 & 8 are the centre pieces which at their respective ages is a recipe more likely to fail than succeed.

Yes, luck plays a huge part but it starts with the right strategy and they got it wrong by at least 2 years. They could have had 3-4 extra genuine top NHL players from another couple of years drafting and more assets in general to work with. More importantly they’d have been cost controlled. Filling the remaining holes would have been much easier. No guarantees but they’d have then had the asset pool to take that ‘competitive every year’ approach by filling holes then having the next wave of cheap talent ready to step up. Instead the cupboards are bare and the roster issues are obvious. It didn’t need much more patience.

The Faber trade looks questionable but at the time no one saw this past season as a rookie coming from him (certainly not at the time of the trade). I was always behind the pick but they followed the old adage of trading from a position of strength which means I can live with that one. The PLD trade is the one that will cost Blake his job, mostly because of the contract… even if PLD puts it together and plays his best from here on in.

Sure they might get lucky and hit form at the right time and get into the 2nd round, they might get lucky and draft a couple of HOF guys in the next draft but when the strategy is hinged on getting VERY lucky, it’s wrong.

Isn't most organization's strategy HOPE and LUCK? Think about it, they are HOPING they draft the next McDavid, not the next Puljarvi, they are HOPING they draft the next Kucherov, not the next Griffin Reinhart, they are LUCKY that ball bounced the right way and they moved up 10 spots etc.

That's not to say all strategy is hope and luck, of course not, but the cupboard is bare, yet people are SCREAMING for Fagemo, Thomas, Clarke, Helenius, Turcotte to get games played, this isn't the NFL where there is a shit ton of turnover from year to year, MOST organizations from year to year, will have 2-3 holes to plug, barring any trades/major f***ups/etc,

Holes are glaring, they need some tough bottom six players, and a better LHD, and a goaltender, 2-3 holes.....

Cap space is vital, I don't think giving PLD an 8 year deal was the best move, but there is more than enough room to find what you need.

 

[Statto]

Isn't most organization's strategy HOPE and LUCK? Think about it, they are HOPING they draft the next McDavid, not the next Puljarvi, they are HOPING they draft the next Kucherov, not the next Griffin Reinhart, they are LUCKY that ball bounced the right way and they moved up 10 spots etc.

That's not to say all strategy is hope and luck, of course not, but the cupboard is bare, yet people are SCREAMING for Fagemo, Thomas, Clarke, Helenius, Turcotte to get games played, this isn't the NFL where there is a shit ton of turnover from year to year, MOST organizations from year to year, will have 2-3 holes to plug, barring any trades/major f***ups/etc,

Holes are glaring, they need some tough bottom six players, and a better LHD, and a goaltender, 2-3 holes.....

Cap space is vital, I don't think giving PLD an 8 year deal was the best move, but there is more than enough room to find what you need.

I’m replying to the point about being able to compete every year. The window is 2 yrs, maybe then it back to rebuild.

Three holes… arguably more with no one ready to supplant or even equal 11 and 8. The problem with the holes is that there is no cap room to play with, most likely not next year without trading away someone like Danault.

I accept luck is needed but this strategy is like going all in on a straight flush draw… if even that good. I backed Blake longer than most but the PLD move just left me flummoxed on what the actual strategy was… even if I recognised some mistakes in the execution to that point.