2023-24 James Norris Memorial Trophy finalists: Quinn Hughes, Roman Josi, Cale Makar

[NyQuil]

Makar is the best defenceman in the league.

Hughes should and will win the Norris for this past regular season.

 

[Rowlet]

Better how? You would think you want your best defenceman on the ice when you're killing penalties.....

Makar is a below average penalty killer though

edit for card, he's actually bottom 10%

 

[triggrman]

Better how? You would think you want your best defenceman on the ice when you're killing penalties.....

Actually, that's when you can use the slower, bigger defenders. You're defending 1 zone for the most part.

 

[wetcoast]

View attachment 863628

Makar is a bottom 8% PKer in the league this year, as of March 18th.

All hail the card eh?

There are lies damm lies and statistics.

the small print at the bottom say this

all stats shown are

percentile ranks among defensmen at 5on 5 and per 60 minutes in 23-24

As if being a huge MPG Dmen doesn't mean anything in the real NHL right?

I say this as Hughes being a lock for the Norris but people using cards to downplay Makar seems really lacking IMO.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Studying a map trying to locate this mythic "defensive zone"...

Still trying to push that narrative eh.

 

[Foppberg]

With all due respect, Hughes couldn’t even dream to fill the shoes of dmen like Josi and Makar.

True.

 

[jackjohnson]

Yeah, playing with Miller and Pettersson was a total drag.

Yeah Pettersson sure is something eh? 80 points regular season and really hot in playoffs.

 

[jackjohnson]

He still had 89 points

Makar is the better defenseman.

Hughes is a 4th forward

Hughes will win Norris this year and thats the consensus. No one cares about your opinion lol

 

[Shane Diesel]

Yeah Pettersson sure is something eh? 80 points regular season and really hot in playoffs.

A total of 23 goals separated the Avs and Canucks during the regular season. Anyone arguing Hughes had a significantly worse offensive squad is being disingenuous. The difference was marginal at best.

Not to mention the Norris is a regular season award so whatever Pettersson is or isn't doing in the playoffs is wholly irrelevant.

 

[jackjohnson]

A total of 23 goals separated the Avs and Canucks during the regular season. Anyone arguing Hughes had a significantly worse offensive squad is being disingenuous. The difference was marginal at best.

Not to mention the Norris is a regular season award so whatever Pettersson is or isn't doing in the playoffs is wholly irrelevant.

Hughes is the one that made Canucks offense tick. It shows in playoffs. Avs are way better offensively both in regular season and miles in playoffs

 

[jackjohnson]

Actually, that's when you can use the slower, bigger defenders. You're defending 1 zone for the most part.

Yeah i dont get why people think Hughes should PK too. That would mean he has to play 40 minutes each game. Some geniuses on these boards. Even Makar is better off not PKing to conserve energy for offense. You cant play 20 minutes 5 on 5 plus play on PP and PK.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Hughes is the one that made Canucks offense tick.

And Makar didn’t make the Avs' offense click?

It shows in playoffs. Avs are way better offensively both in regular season and miles in playoffs

Once again, the playoffs have zip to do with the Norris; plus I've already given you the difference between goals during the regular season. It was small.

Yeah i dont get why people think Hughes should PK too. That would mean he has to play 40 minutes each game. Some geniuses on these boards. Even Makar is better off not PKing to conserve energy for offense. You cant play 20 minutes 5 on 5 plus play on PP and PK.

Makar gets significantly more PK time than Hughes and still outscored him on a per game basis.

 

[jackjohnson]

And Makar didn’t make the Avs' offense click?


Once again, the playoffs have zip to do with the Norris.

I know it doesnt but Avs are showing they arr superior offensively to Canucks even in head to head matches with Canucks in regular season. Makar isnt the prime offensive weapon in Colorado since they have Mckinnon and his 140 points. Put Hughes with Mac daddy and he would have 120 assists playing in that Avs PP. Makar is good but the Avs offense is elite with or without makar

 

[Shane Diesel]

I know it doesnt but Avs are showing they arr superior offensively to Canucks even in head to head matches with Canucks in regular season. Makar isnt the prime offensive weapon in Colorado since they have Mckinnon and his 140 points. Put Hughes with Mac daddy and he would have 120 assists playing in that Avs PP. Makar is good but the Avs offense is elite with or without makar

If you say so.

 

[jackjohnson]

And Makar didn’t make the Avs' offense click?


Once again, the playoffs have zip to do with the Norris; plus I've already given you the difference between goals during the regular season. It was small.


Makar gets significantly more PK time than Hughes and still outscored him on a per game basis.

Well he gets to play on Avs PP. Hughes has to play on a below average PP unit where most times he needs to make plays to nake something happen since Pettersson refuses to shoot and fans on passes and shot. Without Hughes, Canucks PP would be dead last.

If you say so.

Makar scores goals and has deadly shot but I would take Hughes passing and playmaking abilities.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Makar scores goals and has deadly shot but I would take Hughes passing and playmaking abiabilities.

Hughes recorded six more assists than Makar while playing five more games. Once again, the difference is marginal at best.

Across their careers they both record .79 assists per game.

 

[jackjohnson]

Hughes recorded six more assists than Makar while playing five more games. Once again, the difference is marginal at best.

Across their careers they both record .79 assists per game.

Not sure why you dont account what team he plays for. Avs have elite stars and superstars in Mack, Rantanen, Landeskog, Mittlestadt, Nischuchkin etc. Canucks only have Miller, Pettersson and Boeser as elite offensive talent and Pettersson has been up and down this year and we had below average PP. Hughes getting this many points in regular season is impressive, he drives Canucks offense. Put him on the Avs and he would break the 100 point barrier easily

 

[Shane Diesel]

Not sure why you dont account what team he plays for. Avs have elite stars and superstars in Mack, Rantanen, Landeskog, Mittlestadt, Nischuchkin etc. Canucks only have Miller, Pettersson and Boeser as elite offensive talent and Pettersson has been up and down this year and we had below average PP. Hughes getting this many points in regular season is impressive, he drives Canucks offense. Put him on the Avs and he would break the 100 point barrier easily

I did account for it. The difference this year between the Avs and Canucks was 23 total goals. That works out to one extra goal every four games or so.

 

[thefutures]

I did account for it. The difference this year between the Avs and Canucks was 23 total goals. That works out to one extra goal every four games or so.

So makar should have no problem winning this award with that context

 

[Tralfamadore]

If Makar doesn't win this league is a joke.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Not sure why you dont account what team he plays for. Avs have elite stars and superstars in Mack, Rantanen, Landeskog, Mittlestadt, Nischuchkin etc. Canucks only have Miller, Pettersson and Boeser as elite offensive talent and Pettersson has been up and down this year and we had below average PP. Hughes getting this many points in regular season is impressive, he drives Canucks offense. Put him on the Avs and he would break the 100 point barrier easily

Why would we use those lists? Landeskog hasn't played a single game since lifting the Cup 2 years ago, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing much to help Makar. Mittelstadt played 18 regular season games for the Avs after being acquired at the deadline, scoring 10 points, so again, not too much help coming from him. Plus, Nuke and Lehk both missed significant time this year.

I'd also say that Makar having to play 63 games with Ryan Johansen is a bigger negative than anything Hughes has ever had to deal with.

 

[Shane Diesel]

So makar should have no problem winning this award with that context

I have no idea who will win the Norris. I think Hughes had an incredible season and is extremely deserving. I'm simply pointing out the difference between the Avs and Canucks offensively this year was small.

 

[jackjohnson]

I did account for it. The difference this year between the Avs and Canucks was 23 total goals. That works out to one extra goal every four games or so.

23 goals us a lot

I have no idea who will win the Norris. I think Hughes had an incredible season and is extremely deserving. I'm simply pointing out the difference between the Avs and Canucks offensively this year was small.

Its consensus that Hughes will win this year so you should have an idea.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Its consensus that Hughes will win this year so you should have an ideidea

I don't disagree with you the hockey media at large considers Hughes the front runner, but until the final votes are tallied we can't know for sure. Surprises have happened before.

 

[thefutures]

I don't disagree with you the hockey media at large considers Hughes the front runner, but until the final votes are tallied we can't know for sure. Surprises have happened before.

It's not that hockey media has him as a front runner it's that he was objectively better this whole season