Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Thread title week to week on IR

[Stammertime91]

You're right about all of this. But my mind tracks to if guys like Stamkos need Pat Maroon to keep the ship right then we might as well move on from him. You don't need 7 co captains to win a Cup, just that many guys who comprise our nucleus to bust ass while the role players do their jobs.

Better, quality depth is going to help but it sounds like unless it's also some captain character we have no shot

I mean, you're not wrong. That's what we spent years debating and even had people thinking captaincy taken from Stamkos would've helped. That was a big "issue" from what this board gathered. When the first wave came through from all the Rangers players, it helped mature them. Then, the second wave of veterans from 20-22 with McDonagh and Rutta getting acclimated, it all came together. How that looks internally I'm not sure many of us can elaborate on, but we definitely saw a team coming up short led by this core. On one hand, they can't do it all. When Point, Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasy are gamebreakers in the playoffs, the core performs. It's mainly Stamkos that has underperformed. On the other hand, you need depth and veterans. We have wrong personnel as the supporting cast.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Wouldn't be mad if one of Lucas Edmonds or Jack Finley is used at the trade deadline.

 

[These Are The Days]

I mean, you're not wrong. That's what we spent years debating and even had people thinking captaincy taken from Stamkos would've helped. That was a big "issue" from what this board gathered. When the first wave came through from all the Rangers players, it helped mature them. Then, the second wave of veterans from 20-22 with McDonagh and Rutta getting acclimated, it all came together. How that looks internally I'm not sure many of us can elaborate on, but we definitely saw a team coming up short led by this core. On one hand, they can't do it all. When Point, Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasy are gamebreakers in the playoffs, the core performs. It's mainly Stamkos that has underperformed. On the other hand, you need depth and veterans. We have wrong personnel as the supporting cast.

There's 2 ways to look at Stamkos in my opinion and I think the truth is blurred between them

1. The human view. He has an outside chance of being an all time great as a leader. I'm serious. From saying no to Toronto, to battling through so many devastating injuries and if I remember correctly his wife suffered a miscarriage during the bubble Cup run. Absolutely insane to think of one man overcoming so much. You're not gonna see anyone so dedicated to a team or his craft as Steven Stamkos. We'll be hard pressed to find a more resilient athlete in many years.

2. The cynical view that has layers of truth in it. There's ALWAYS something with this guy. He's in a contract dispute. He got some fluke injury and is out again. He's lost confidence in his shot. Save for Mbappe in soccer I have never seen an athlete be the center of so much anxiety, drama, stress and worry for a team or its fanbase. Dude has had like 1 normal year in the last 8 and that was the year we got clown stomped by the CBJ. It's exhausting for me as a fan. Here we are in Stammergeddon 3 and the team is playing like crap and its like the whole team forgot about winning championships. Starting with him.

I lean more towards #1. So much of what he's overcome wasn't his doing. And if he can do that, I don't see how he can't get his team in order. It's so clear how much they respect him. If he hasn't commanded that room yet with Godlike authority then it only proves how much I don't know him as a person. As an outsider it may be time he yields the mantle. He doesn't have to leave. Just that someone else is the voice. This team has many good years left and is just in a setback. If our own captain can't be part of the solution then I'm not surprised that we keep finding more questions than answers.

They found a way vs Boston last game. It's a start. But they need to decide who they are this year and the first voice of reason needs to be 91. Not because he needs 5 guys on his shoulder

 

[Hockeyville USA]

There's 2 ways to look at Stamkos in my opinion and I think the truth is blurred between them

1. The human view. He has an outside chance of being an all time great as a leader. I'm serious. From saying no to Toronto, to battling through so many devastating injuries and if I remember correctly his wife suffered a miscarriage during the bubble Cup run. Absolutely insane to think of one man overcoming so much. You're not gonna see anyone so dedicated to a team or his craft as Steven Stamkos. We'll be hard pressed to find a more resilient athlete in many years.

2. The cynical view that has layers of truth in it. There's ALWAYS something with this guy. He's in a contract dispute. He got some fluke injury and is out again. He's lost confidence in his shot. Save for Mbappe in soccer I have never seen an athlete be the center of so much anxiety, drama, stress and worry for a team or its fanbase. Dude has had like 1 normal year in the last 8 and that was the year we got clown stomped by the CBJ. It's exhausting for me as a fan. Here we are in Stammergeddon 3 and the team is playing like crap and its like the whole team forgot about winning championships. Starting with him.

I lean more towards #1. So much of what he's overcome wasn't his doing. And if he can do that, I don't see how he can't get his team in order. It's so clear how much they respect him. If he hasn't commanded that room yet with Godlike authority then it only proves how much I don't know him as a person. As an outsider it may be time he yields the mantle. He doesn't have to leave. Just that someone else is the voice. This team has many good years left and is just in a setback. If our own captain can't be part of the solution then I'm not surprised that we keep finding more questions than answers.

They found a way vs Boston last game. It's a start. But they need to decide who they are this year and the first voice of reason needs to be 91. Not because he needs 5 guys on his shoulder

Wasn't 2021-22 pretty normal for him? His first 100 point season, awesome 5v5 for most of it, really good playoff run to the Final.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Wouldn't be mad if one of Lucas Edmonds or Jack Finley is used at the trade deadline.

Edmonds is garbage and has no value. I wouldn't trade Finley at all. He's having a great year in Syracuse and his offense is further along than expected at this stage. If he can keep producing like he has and even hit another level next season he could be a really good 3C and not just a 4C. I didn't think his offensive game would allow him to be a 3C but he's taken a very nice step and he's still only 20. He can become a Martin Hanzel type down the line.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

its almost like....when you are tight against the cap you have to make high risk moves to try to fill in perceived holes in your lineup and, like, high risk moves don't always pan out????

 

[ccman68]

injuries have kind of f***ed jeannot. obviously he’ll never be worth the price but if he can find some chemistry with someone maybe he can become a good third liner for us.

and i still don’t like the ”we gave up 5 draft picks omg” thing since most of those picks are worthless

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Hockeyville USA]

injuries have kind of f***ed jeannot. obviously he’ll never be worth the price but if he can find some chemistry with someone maybe he can become a good third liner for us.

and i still don’t like the ”we gave up 5 draft picks omg” thing since most of those picks are worthless

I wouldn't say worthless, I would say they're usually meaningless if you don't hit on those picks.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

injuries have kind of f***ed jeannot. obviously he’ll never be worth the price but if he can find some chemistry with someone maybe he can become a good third liner for us.

and i still don’t like the ”we gave up 5 draft picks omg” thing since most of those picks are worthless

He and Essyimont usually play well together imo.

Those picks aren’t worthless though.. not about who we could of drafted but who we could of traded them for instead of a 3rd /4th liner who was in the echl not too long ago.

 

[ccman68]

He and Essyimont usually play well together imo.

Those picks aren’t worthless though.. not about who we could of drafted but who we could of traded them for instead of a 3rd /4th liner who was in the echl not too long ago.

true but i more mean the 3th 4th 5th round picks. there isn't gonna be a trade we can't make because we don't have a 4th round pick

 

[Stammertime91]

true but i more mean the 3th 4th 5th round picks. there isn't gonna be a trade we can't make because we don't have a 4th round pick

That's the point though. It's the first and second that are an issue and he's not worth those. He's worth the "worthless" picks tacked on at the back. We had Maroon and if the plan was to move on, we could've explored other options that wouldn't have costed us a 1st and 2nd.

This isn't even factoring in the injury right now because he may come back and be fine, but you kind of just throw your hands up like well, it's whatever. Like my original post said, this kind of trade hurts a franchise more than it helps.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

That's the point though. It's the first and second that are an issue and he's not worth those. He's worth the "worthless" picks tacked on at the back. We had Maroon and if the plan was to move on, we could've explored other options that wouldn't have costed us a 1st and 2nd.

This isn't even factoring in the injury right now because he may come back and be fine, but you kind of just throw your hands up like well, it's whatever. Like my original post said, this kind of trade hurts a franchise more than it helps.

Should have just traded a 2nd and 4th for Nick Bjugstad last year.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

The whining on this board is insane lol

Everyone sounds spoiled, bitter and miserable.

 

[Rschmitz]

The whining on this board is insane lol

Everyone sounds spoiled, bitter and miserable.

This is what it looks like when you fall from the top of the mountain

 

[Flat Ronnie]

This is what it looks like when you fall from the top of the mountain

Who expects to stay on top forever? Most fans never get to see a run like ours. And we're still a playoff team.

 

[Rschmitz]

Who expects to stay on top forever? Most fans never get to see a run like ours. And we're still a playoff team.

New fans

 

[RDTBay4]

This is what it looks like when you fall from the top of the mountain

Or fall off the wagon.

 

[Point21]

 

[HoseEmDown]

That's the point though. It's the first and second that are an issue and he's not worth those. He's worth the "worthless" picks tacked on at the back. We had Maroon and if the plan was to move on, we could've explored other options that wouldn't have costed us a 1st and 2nd.

This isn't even factoring in the injury right now because he may come back and be fine, but you kind of just throw your hands up like well, it's whatever. Like my original post said, this kind of trade hurts a franchise more than it helps.

Would you rather have Howden, Foote, Hajek, Stephens, Volkov, Fortier hell even Raddysh or Katchouk instead of Jeannot.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Would you rather have Howden, Foote, Hajek, Stephens, Volkov, Fortier hell even Raddysh or Katchouk instead of Jeannot.

I would rather have DeBrincat, Robert Thomas or Jason Robertson, Girard, Aho, Mario Ferraro, Fox (convince him to sign to get free Cups at the time). 2018 Draft is quite weak, so not many players picked after who were obvious candidates to go instead of Fortier, but Jack McBain is decent depth.

Team has to draft better with their draft slots.