Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Lightning1995]

Lots of good points here and fair discussion. This playoffs when the chips were there to be had, it was the vaunted PP and KUCH that failed. And failed big time. Kuch is our guy and if he continues to fail…..to be vastly inferior to Verhagee Barkov and Reinhardt….the Lightning are toast

 

[Stammertime91]

Lots of good points here and fair discussion. This playoffs when the chips were there to be had, it was the vaunted PP and KUCH that failed. And failed big time. Kuch is our guy and if he continues to fail…..to be vastly inferior to Verhagee Barkov and Reinhardt….the Lightning are toast

It's kind of two sided with him. Everyone helped get him the Ross, but he carried the team and without him, we wouldn't have clinched. So, five games. Worth it? Not really. This felt a lot more like 2016-2017 when we missed so in hindsight, it was probably smarter had we sold at the deadline the few pieces that had any value. Kucherov looked disinterested, disengaged and frustrated the entire series. His body language has always been sour but this entire series he looked awful. 7 points in 5 games, all assists. Nothing new that he sneezed those points out, but a slightly engaged Kucherov (and Point), and it may have looked different earlier in the series.

 

[Todd1a]

Here is where I am at.

No 1st round pick means no rebuild
No rebuild means no letting Stamkos walk
No letting Stamkos walk means no fixing holes with cap space
No fixing holes with cap space means we are in for repeat season of apathetic play.

Whippee

Pretty much unless Dylan Duke comes up and plays awesome and somehow we get lucky and find a top 4 RHD

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

One thing we got going for us... Brent Seabrook will finally be off the books which means we can potentially accumulate some cap space during the season.

 

[Todd1a]

Need to offload jeannot and sheary somehow

 

[Outl4w]

I think we need to look internally at our pro scouting department and make some changes. Whoever was responsible for thinking Jeannot, Sheary, dehann,fleury, and dumba were going to improve on the lightning and help move the team forward needs to go.

 

[Felonious Python]

I think we need to look internally at our pro scouting department and make some changes. Whoever was responsible for thinking Jeannot, Sheary, dehann,fleury, and dumba were going to improve on the lightning and help move the team forward needs to go.

They were (mostly) the best affordable options.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I think we need to look internally at our pro scouting department and make some changes. Whoever was responsible for thinking Jeannot, Sheary, dehann,fleury, and dumba were going to improve on the lightning and help move the team forward needs to go.

Sheary at the start of the year was a sound signing. He had line 3 production over the last few years and looked stable.

Jeannot - not getting into this shit again

de Haan was fine as long as he was being played as a 6/7 guy, but as soon as injuries came, they asked more of him and it showed.

Fleury actually isn't bad at all, and I say that as someone who has given him a LOT of shit over the last two seasons. A large part of our season going in the toilet is the collision with the ref in Pittsburgh. He skates well, he moves the puck well, which is something we're very deficient in currently. I don't know that we win the FLA series with him, but i'd say it looks much different with him.

Dumba was a byproduct of needing more warm bodies down the stretch and not running 2-3 rookies on the blueline.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

They were (mostly) the best affordable options.

Wow, that really explains a lot. Perbix went from decent to looking completely shy towards any kind of contact and now we know why. Cernaks injury basically nullifies his abilities as well, which explains him just "following" on some plays. Can only imagine what the Raddysh injury looked like.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I think its safe to assume Julien is going to explore bringing Dumba back cheap as the 6/7 option rather than de Haan. I don't know that i'd pay more than like 1.25 for Dumba though. Call me soured on Duclair though, hes a good regular season guy but showed absolutely nothing in the playoffs.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Sucks to lose Thompson for a duclair rental for 5 playoff games.

 

[T REX]

Need to offload jeannot and sheary somehow

Both negative assets.

I saw the average 3C makes $3.1 mill

Cirelli is MORE THAN DOUBLE that. Yikes. JBB went off the rails

 

[Stammertime91]

They were (mostly) the best affordable options.

Motte broke ankle October 11? Is that wrong? What was the last injury then?

It sounds like JBB is bringing back Hedman, for sure. Stamkos seems likely providing they aren't worlds apart. He didn't sound the same certainty or hope for Dumba and Duclair. With Cooper limiting Duclairs TOI, I imagine he's not a fan. I don't expect either to return.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Motte broke ankle October 11? Is that wrong? What was the last injury then?

It sounds like JBB is bringing back Hedman, for sure. Stamkos seems likely providing they aren't worlds apart. He didn't sound the same certainty or hope for Dumba and Duclair. With Cooper limiting Duclairs TOI, I imagine he's not a fan. I don't expect either to return.

He blocked a shot in the beginning of April that went off his ankle and missed a game or 2. Broke then again or damaged it again.

 

[Stammertime91]

He blocked a shot in the beginning of April that went off his ankle and missed a game or 2. Broke then again or damaged it again.

Right. So broken April 11 or October 11? The date threw me off. Regardless, he played great considering that.

 

[ccman68]

but people here told me that vasy has actually been trash for the past 10 years and there’s no way the injury could affect his play

 

[Stammertime91]

Probably the most comforting thing was Vasy returning to form. If he can get back to his old self, that's such a huge tipping point.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Right. So broken April 11 or October 11? The date threw me off. Regardless, he played great considering that.

Both

 

[Antiramie]

Both negative assets.

I saw the average 3C makes $3.1 mill

Cirelli is MORE THAN DOUBLE that. Yikes. JBB went off the rails

Everyone keeps saying move Cirelli like other teams are going to be chomping at the bit to acquire a guy who is being paid a high/middle 2C contract and whose best season output is 45 pts. It's delusional.

Again, if we're going to try to move a forward contract it should be Point, because you'll get market value (or more than it) for him, it clears a ton of cap space, and his numbers have likely been inflated playing with Kuch who just shits assists to everyone. And then I'd move Hagel to center on that line. All of that is contingent on Point waiving his NMC, so if that's not possible then all of this is a moot point.

If you can't move Point then your next best bet is to move Hagel, since his value is at an all time high.

After that there's no one you can really move that would fetch a great return, unless we want to dismantle our defense (Hedman, Serg, Cernak). But doing that signifies a full on rebuild to me.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Vasilevskiy]

sounds to me like he's only going for stammer. It's ok to me if Duclair and Dumba are not back

 

[The Gongshow]

sounds to me like he's only going for stammer. It's ok to me if Duclair and Dumba are not back

If Dumba takes like 1 mil, he can be our next in line through the revolving door that is our RD3/4
Edit: I also though Dumba was terrible, specially in the playoffs but if he's cheap I easily see JBB doing it as our Bogo/Cole/DeHaan/schenn type signing

Duclair showed everyone these last 5 games why he's been on so many teams. He's not a playoff performer. I don't want him back

 

[Stammertime91]

Everyone keeps saying move Cirelli like other teams are going to be chomping at the bit to acquire a guy who is being paid a high/middle 2C contract and whose best season output is 45 pts. It's delusional.

Again, if we're going to try to move a forward contract it should be Point, because you'll get market value (or more than it) for him, it clears a ton of cap space, and his numbers have likely been inflated playing with Kuch who just shits assists to everyone. And then I'd move Hagel to center on that line. All of that is contingent on Point waiving his NMC, so if that's not possible then all of this is a moot point.

If you can't move Point then your next best bet is to move Hagel, since his value is at an all time high.

After that there's no one you can really move that would fetch a great return, unless we want to dismantle our defense (Hedman, Serg, Cernak). But doing that signifies a full on rebuild to me.

Your solution is to keep Cirelli, trade Point, and move Hagel to center.


What is phase two? Trade Hedman, Move Vasy to LD and put Fleury in net? Lol.

There's no way you trade Brayden Point after what he's done in the playoffs during those b2b years. He's getting 40 and 50 goals and your solution to alleviate cap space and make the team better is to keep the meddling 2C and jettison our legitimate 1C? That is wild as f***. You don't just move wingers to center with a snap of a finger. Hagel doesn't have the body strength to play center and it's a poor utilization of his speed and fantastic board play to pull him off the wing. Thats a great way to derail someone's career.

Cirelli has a shit ton of value and how people are selling low on him and thinking he has no value or negative value is beyond me. He's a 2C on a lot of teams. For our team, we are better off moving Cirelli and using that cap space to acquire a defenseman. When you have Point, Stamkos, and Paul as centers, you don't need an Anthony Cirelli at that point.

 

[T REX]

In the NHL cirelli is a 3C