2023-2024 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[DuckDuckGetz]

The question is not whether Eakins or Cronin are a worse coach. In my opinion they both are bad. I would fire Cronin after this season but that is not going to happen. Verbeek will give him at least one more year, and possibly two more years. He was Verbeek's hire, and Verbeek is not going to want to admit that he made a mistake until more than enough time has passed.

The big difference for me was that the last season we had of Eakins, which was really ugly, was his sixth season behind an NHL bench. I don't think Cronin was great but I also think it seems a bit hasty to judge a coach on their first year ever as a HC. Bednar has been brought up before but he went from a .293 win% in his first season to a .579 the next season with the same key players.

I'd be surprised if Cronin fails to make any adjustments, and if that happens then I can't imagine he'll have a very long HC career.

 

[Henrique Iglesias]

Shit all you want on Eakins, but we found someone worse in Cronin.

I'll never understand how you can repeatedly make bold claims like this, think your supporting the claim with graphs and charts, and actually present zero tangible truthful evidence.

Here are some facts for you:

1.) Cronin has coached this team for 1 year
2.) Eakins coached this team for 4 years, and the Oilers for 2 with next to no success
3.) The team this year had tons of new faces, some drafted here and some signed as free agents, meaning the players were playing with linemates they never have before
4.) The team was decimated by injuries almost all year, resulting in the lineup changing constantly
5.) Cronin introduced a new system and inserted a new level of expectations, of which Verbeek described as "drinking water through a fire hose" for this group
6.) We have one of the youngest teams in the NHL, a team getting younger with Henrique and Silfverberg gone

How, after one year, can you possibly say Cronin is worse than Eakins? Maybe he is, but it is impossible to definitively say that given everything working against Cronin this year.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

That’s the key point
…

Eakins has failed in the nhl consistently…. And was here for a few years and continued failing

Cronin has had 1 year taking over Eakins failure

I’m willing to give him 2 years and see how he does

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The big difference for me was that the last season we had of Eakins, which was really ugly, was his sixth season behind an NHL bench. I don't think Cronin was great but I also think it seems a bit hasty to judge a coach on their first year ever as a HC. Bednar has been brought up before but he went from a .293 win% in his first season to a .579 the next season with the same key players.

I'd be surprised if Cronin fails to make any adjustments, and if that happens then I can't imagine he'll have a very long HC career.

It's kinda sad that many point to Eakins career and not realize he's been working with mostly a rebuild roster, again, which was Wood's point.

Talk about jumping up in win %...

Ducks
Season	Games	W	L	OL	Pts	Pt Share
2020-21	56​	17​	30​	9​	43​	38.4%​
2021-22 All Star Break	48​	23​	16​	9​	55​	57.3%​
2021-22 TDL	62​	27​	25​	10​	64​	51.6%​
2021-22 Complete	82​	31​	37​	14​	76​	46.3%​
2022-23	82​	23​	47​	12​	58​	35.4%​
2023-24	82​	27​	50​	5​	59​	36.0%​

There was the same roster group between 2020-21 and 2021-22 (Z and Drysdale had a 24-game stint in 2020-21). Difference was they were healthy to start the season. Verbeek took over the team at All-star break. There were no NHL additions made when Murray resigned. Between All-star break and the TDL, Manson missed 12 out of 14 games and no help was made until Sustr was put on the waiver wire days before Manson was traded.

When the TDL happened and Verbeek blew up the team, the team crashed going 4-12-4 to close out the season. From the Athletic:

Now, who knows where this goes after this season? Eakins’ deal will be up. But at the very least, Verbeek wanted to take the time to further get to know his coach before making any decisions.​

​

“It’s not fair … me coming in two, three months and then going with a new guy,” Verbeek said. “And in the sense that I just blew up the team (at the trade deadline). So I wanted to give him a chance. ​

=============================

Cronin has been an NHL assistant coach for 12 years:

1998-2003 with NYI​

2011-2014 with Toronto​

2014-2018 with NYI​

Cronin has been a head coach below the NHL for several years:

1995-16 Maine (NCAA)​

2003-05 Bridgeport (AHL)​

2005-11 Northeaster (NCAA)​

2018-23 Colorado Eagles (AHL)​

Cronin doesn't have a shortage of experience being a head coach nor an NHL assistant coach. None of this is extremely new to Cronin except it's being a head coach at the NHL level.

Eakins was given a shit roster by Verbeek in 2022-23 that left us without any defense, physicality, nor talent depth after Verbeek "blew up the team". Cronin was gifted with a load of talent offensively, defensively, physicality, and talent depth to have created a +38 goal differential from last season. Yet, we were only 1 point better.

Instead of comparing the two rosters and productions, we get "agenda-ists" that want to expand to Eakins' previous four seasons. And when I bring up the 2021-22 season, they all, in unison, omit that season from their memories to continue to promote an agenda.

But it all comes back to roster quality and roster depth. Eakins was able to take a team with the 2nd worst record and put them into 3rd place in the Pacific at All-star break (without a GM between Nov and Feb) because the roster was mostly healthy, but still lacked depth due to it being year 3 of the Murray rebuild. And while Verbeek sat on his hands between All-star break and the TDL, where Manson missed 12 out of 14 games, the Ducks were still only 4 points from 3rd place in the Pacific.

Last year: Shit roster in = shit record out (58 pts)
This year: Vastly improve roster in, +38 GD improvement = shit record out (59 pts)

I'll repeat this, Cronin isn't going anywhere. He'll be here next season b/c he Verbeek's chosen. Yet, Eakins was let go the moment the season ended without any time for review. It's silent and safe since the season ended for Cronin despite a shittier outing.

 

[Rybread86]

The fact that we haven't heard any of the assistants being fired yet is kind of concerning. I can see Thompson getting a little grace being that he's only been here 1 year but Brown still having a job? Yeeesh. Hoping that they are just taking their time

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Do assistants necessarily get fired immediately at season’s end like head coaches do? Or do we still have hope?

 

[ADHB]

A little weird there haven’t been any exit interviews done yet. I would think any news about decisions that have already been made, such as perhaps changing assistants, would come out when Verbeek talks to the media at that point.

 

[duxfan1101]

A little weird there haven’t been any exit interviews done yet. I would think any news about decisions that have already been made, such as perhaps changing assistants, would come out when Verbeek talks to the media at that point.

They are probably just waiting to do the interviews on a weekday (last Friday would’ve been too soon after the season ended, especially because they were on the road). I’d be surprised if they aren’t done tomorrow (maaaaybe Tuesday). And as far as the assistants go, that’s something that doesn’t need to be announced immediately, even if Verbeek is leaning one way or another.

 

[JAHV]

Do assistants necessarily get fired immediately at season’s end like head coaches do? Or do we still have hope?

I'm guessing that they haven't finished with their season ending analysis yet. I also suspect that there might be possible replacements on some of the current playoff teams. So I don't think there's a big hurry.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I'm guessing that they haven't finished with their season ending analysis yet. I also suspect that there might be possible replacements on some of the current playoff teams. So I don't think there's a big hurry.

Let’s hope they don’t really need more time to analyze the disaster of our special teams. As for replacements, it’s true there’s no hurry to name replacements, but they still generally fire the old guys well before announcing the new guys. At some point soon there should be an announcement if they are being let go, if for no other reason than to announce around the league, “hey, we’re hiring”.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

It's kinda sad that many point to Eakins career and not realize he's been working with mostly a rebuild roster, again, which was Wood's point.

Talk about jumping up in win %...

Ducks
Season	Games	W	L	OL	Pts	Pt Share
2020-21	56​	17​	30​	9​	43​	38.4%​
2021-22 All Star Break	48​	23​	16​	9​	55​	57.3%​
2021-22 TDL	62​	27​	25​	10​	64​	51.6%​
2021-22 Complete	82​	31​	37​	14​	76​	46.3%​
2022-23	82​	23​	47​	12​	58​	35.4%​
2023-24	82​	27​	50​	5​	59​	36.0%​

There was the same roster group between 2020-21 and 2021-22 (Z and Drysdale had a 24-game stint in 2020-21). Difference was they were healthy to start the season. Verbeek took over the team at All-star break. There were no NHL additions made when Murray resigned. Between All-star break and the TDL, Manson missed 12 out of 14 games and no help was made until Sustr was put on the waiver wire days before Manson was traded.

When the TDL happened and Verbeek blew up the team, the team crashed going 4-12-4 to close out the season. From the Athletic:

Now, who knows where this goes after this season? Eakins’ deal will be up. But at the very least, Verbeek wanted to take the time to further get to know his coach before making any decisions.​

​

“It’s not fair … me coming in two, three months and then going with a new guy,” Verbeek said. “And in the sense that I just blew up the team (at the trade deadline). So I wanted to give him a chance. ​

=============================

Cronin has been an NHL assistant coach for 12 years:

1998-2003 with NYI​

2011-2014 with Toronto​

2014-2018 with NYI​

Cronin has been a head coach below the NHL for several years:

1995-16 Maine (NCAA)​

2003-05 Bridgeport (AHL)​

2005-11 Northeaster (NCAA)​

2018-23 Colorado Eagles (AHL)​

Cronin doesn't have a shortage of experience being a head coach nor an NHL assistant coach. None of this is extremely new to Cronin except it's being a head coach at the NHL level.

Eakins was given a shit roster by Verbeek in 2022-23 that left us without any defense, physicality, nor talent depth after Verbeek "blew up the team". Cronin was gifted with a load of talent offensively, defensively, physicality, and talent depth to have created a +38 goal differential from last season. Yet, we were only 1 point better.

Instead of comparing the two rosters and productions, we get "agenda-ists" that want to expand to Eakins' previous four seasons. And when I bring up the 2021-22 season, they all, in unison, omit that season from their memories to continue to promote an agenda.

But it all comes back to roster quality and roster depth. Eakins was able to take a team with the 2nd worst record and put them into 3rd place in the Pacific at All-star break (without a GM between Nov and Feb) because the roster was mostly healthy, but still lacked depth due to it being year 3 of the Murray rebuild. And while Verbeek sat on his hands between All-star break and the TDL, where Manson missed 12 out of 14 games, the Ducks were still only 4 points from 3rd place in the Pacific.

Last year: Shit roster in = shit record out (58 pts)
This year: Vastly improve roster in, +38 GD improvement = shit record out (59 pts)

I'll repeat this, Cronin isn't going anywhere. He'll be here next season b/c he Verbeek's chosen. Yet, Eakins was let go the moment the season ended without any time for review. It's silent and safe since the season ended for Cronin despite a shittier outing.

1. The fact remains that this is Cronin's first NHL HC job. I don't care how much experience he has before, this is a completely different role.

2. I don't understand why you hold up the 21-22 season as some example of Eakins being a good coach. Yes, we got significantly worse after the trade deadline, but we went 10-16-6 in the 30ish games leading up to the TDL with a -33 goal differential in that time. The team was riding a hot streak in the very beginning of the season, just like this season.

3a. We were an improved roster, not vastly. We were still icing 2-3 rookies on the blue line every night, something that no good team in the league does.

3b. We were only an improved roster when fully healthy, which we almost never were.

4. Eakins was let go the moment the season ended because he had been reviewed for 3-4 years. He made no significant improvement in that time.

 

[70sSanO]

It is fair to say neither Eakins nor Cronin has a winning record in the NHL.

In the AHL Eakins is just over 53% and Cronin is just under 53%; pretty close.

The only sure fire way to determine who is better is if they face each other in the Cup final.

Calder that is, as neither one could lead a team to the SC.

John

 

[Rasp]

Yes let's spend multiple days debating which terrible coach is better...

 

[KelVarnsen]

Holy Shitballs......We're still debating Cronin and Eakins here? Damn.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Holy Shitballs......We're still debating Cronin and Eakins here? Damn.

Lost in all this is the shit roster construction Verbeek conjured up last year and how much more improved it was this year in talent, balance, physicality, and depth. That's the starting comparison point.

It's sad that with all the added talents, all our coaching staff could do was muster 1 more point. At this rate, we're going to have to add so much more talent that the team wins despite the mediocre coaching.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Anyone who says that the defensemen this year aren’t exponentially than the tank roster Verbeek assembled last year is either disingenuous or dishonest. The squad this year, despite the rookies, is substantially better, AINEC.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

View attachment 857990

View attachment 857991

Anyone who says that the defensemen this year aren’t exponentially than the tank roster Verbeek assembled last year is either disingenuous or dishonest. The squad this year, despite the rookies, is substantially better, AINEC.

They're definitely better but not substantially. LaCombe/Zellweger/Lindstrom/Vaaks would be bottom pairing players at best on a good team. Meanwhile all four of them saw at least some time on our top pairing lol.

 

[Ducks DVM]

They're definitely better but not substantially. LaCombe/Zellweger/Lindstrom/Vaaks would be bottom pairing players at best on a good team. Meanwhile all four of them saw at least some time on our top pairing lol.

Beaulieu and White are AHL players. While a couple of guys this year might have benefitted from AHL time, none of them belong there.

Outside of Fowler, name the player on the entire ‘22-23 roster that is better than a 5? Name a single defenseman you’d take over Gudas, Vaakanainen, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Lybushkin, and LaCombe, and where you’d put them on the roster?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Beaulieu and White are AHL players. While a couple of guys this year might have benefitted from AHL time, none of them belong there.

Outside of Fowler, name the player on the entire ‘22-23 roster that is better than a 5? Name a single defenseman you’d take over Gudas, Vaakanainen, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Lybushkin, and LaCombe, and where you’d put them on the roster?

Don't forget Lindstrom. Sure, he's a bottom pairing, but he isn't held up by Gudas either.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Beaulieu and White are AHL players. While a couple of guys this year might have benefitted from AHL time, none of them belong there.

Outside of Fowler, name the player on the entire ‘22-23 roster that is better than a 5? Name a single defenseman you’d take over Gudas, Vaakanainen, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Lybushkin, and LaCombe, and where you’d put them on the roster?

Obviously I think the rookies will develop into better players than him but for one season only I would easily take Kulikov over everyone on that list but Gudas. Defensively Benoit is pretty interchangeable with Boosh, LaCombe, Vaaks, and maybe even Zellweger. As painful as he was to watch, Shattenkirk's offense would have probably won us a couple more games so I'd probably take him over a couple of those guys, too.

Like I said, the defense is better than last year. It's just not a significant improvement to go from the worst defense in the league to the third-worst defense in the league.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

They're definitely better but not substantially. LaCombe/Zellweger/Lindstrom/Vaaks would be bottom pairing players at best on a good team. Meanwhile all four of them saw at least some time on our top pairing lol.

Why are you comparing to "bottom pairing players at best on a good team". We are comparing them to the last year's roster.

This shifting of the comparison is only brought up to avoid comparing the two actual rosters. This is a common tactic to redirect the conversation when you got nothing.

Ducks	82 games
Season	ES GF	ES GA	ESGD	PP GF	PK GA	Shorties	.	GF	GA	GD
2022-23	172​	260​	-88​	36​	78​	1​		209​	338​	-129​
2023-24	151​	204​	-53​	42​	91​	11​		204​	295​	-91​
24 comp	-21​	56​	36​	6​	-13​	10​		-5​	-43​	38​

If we focus on Even Strength GA (or ES Defense), we're a +56 goal differential. That's significant.

• Natural Stat Trick 5v5 GA
  • Last Year
    • Best = 114
    • Median = 164 (16/17)
    • Ducks = 224 (31st)
    • Worst = 231 (32nd)
  • This Year
    • Best = 119
    • Median = 166 (16/17)
    • Ducks = 173 (22nd)
    • Worst = 226 (32nd)
  • 5v5 Goal Diff = +51 goals

We've improved from the bottom of the bottom-third and into the middle-third of the league with respect to 5v5 GA. Despite displaying four rookies (Minty, LaCombe, Luneau, and Zell), their talents are far greater than last year's youths/AHL d-men. People forget that White was with the NHL club last season and that Hagg couldn't beat out Minty and LaCombe this season.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Why are you comparing to "bottom pairing players at best on a good team". We are comparing them to the last year's roster.

This shifting of the comparison is only brought up to avoid comparing the two actual rosters. This is a common tactic to redirect the conversation when you got nothing.

Ducks	82 games
Season	ES GF	ES GA	ESGD	PP GF	PK GA	Shorties	.	GF	GA	GD
2022-23	172​	260​	-88​	36​	78​	1​		209​	338​	-129​
2023-24	151​	204​	-53​	42​	91​	11​		204​	295​	-91​
24 comp	-21​	56​	36​	6​	-13​	10​		-5​	-43​	38​

If we focus on Even Strength GA (or ES Defense), we're a +56 goal differential. That's significant.

• Natural Stat Trick 5v5 GA
  • Last Year
    • Best = 114
    • Median = 164 (16/17)
    • Ducks = 224 (31st)
    • Worst = 231 (32nd)
  • This Year
    • Best = 119
    • Median = 166 (16/17)
    • Ducks = 173 (22nd)
    • Worst = 226 (32nd)
  • 5v5 Goal Diff = +51 goals

We've improved from the bottom of the bottom-third and into the middle-third of the league with respect to 5v5 GA. Despite displaying four rookies (Minty, LaCombe, Luneau, and Zell), their talents are far greater than last year's youths/AHL d-men. People forget that White was with the NHL club last season and that Hagg couldn't beat out Minty and LaCombe this season.

Because my comparison is that we went from having a roster full of 7/8th defensemen to a roster with bottom pairing defensemen, which is an improvement but not a significant one.

We're splitting hairs at this point, though, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Because my comparison is that we went from having a roster full of 7/8th defensemen to a roster with bottom pairing defensemen, which is an improvement but not a significant one.

We're splitting hairs at this point, though, so I'll just leave it at that.

You are still deflecting why you're using "good teams". But I've already played this game. I'll share the info again. The ES and 5v5 metrics say you're weight metrics are off, as I've shared before. Here's Natural Stat Trick's 5v5 GA ranking:

2023-24	5v5
Rank	Team	GF	GA	Playoff team
16​	NYR	166​	165​	Yes
17​	Colorado	192​	167​	Yes
18​	St.Louis	151​	167​	-
19​	Toronto	200​	168​	Yes
20​	Arizona	171​	171​	-
21​	Pittsburgh	179​	172​	-
22​	Anaheim	125​	173​	-
23​	Washington	143​	175​	Yes

What were we ranked last year in 5v5 GA? 31st with 224 GA. That's a +51 GD improvement.

We're surrounded by good teams in the table above, except we have a total of four rookies playing on team, at least two consistently.

Anaheim has 2nd pairing guys to bottom pairing, which is far better than fielding a majority of bottom-pairing to 7/8th d-men from last season. If Eakins had this year's defensive group, then we probably would have had more wins and more points.

 

[duxfan1101]

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Oh, this will be a treat. Let me run out and get some popcorn.