2023-2024 Coaching/Management/Ownership

Smirnov2Chistov · Apr 19, 2024

just not convinced Cronin is the right guy here. Nothing about his tactical ability shows he’s able to control a game (or have a game plan)

Sure, injuries are apart of the game - but it’s up to Cronin to figure out who can play with who. He’s post-game interview analysis just come off so vague.

All I know is, as bad as it was talent-wise last year, the Ducks were far more entertaining. This year, unless it’s recency bias, looked sloppy and uninterested (especially when they can get sub-20 shots).

There are glimpses of hope in Zegras, Zellweger, McTavish and Gauthier. Just wish they could find a way to get rid of Gibson, Fowler and Terry.

Hockey Duckie · Apr 19, 2024

ScarTroy said:
We had a better roster on defense, and did better defensively. We did not have the same injury situation last season as this season. Of our top 6 only Vatrano played a full season. Terry was at 76 and the rest under 65. Cronin may have a boring system, but with 4 of our top 6 playing another 10-15 games each we could have easily won more games, especially those 1 goal games. Cronin was provided a better roster to start the season yes, but he never was able to utilize it. I’ll buy the argument that could be self inflicted though, due to the nature of his practices wearing his players down, as well as his man to man causing extra wear and tear also during the games.

While you point to the forward group, you completely ignore the defensive group. This year's team can absorb the loss of Drysdale to injury such that we are able to trade Drysdale away for Cutter. Vaak being healthy this year helped to absorb the loss of Drysdale. Last year's team didn't have Drysdale or a healthy Vaak that we see producing now. Can you imagine how many more wins last year's team could have had with a healthy Drysdale and a healthy, productive Vaaks at the very least?

Defensive roster upgrade
- New to club
  - RD Gudas
  - RD Lybushkin
  - LD Minty
  - LD/RD LaCombe
  - RD Luneau
  - RD Lindstrom
  - LD/RD Zellweger
- Healthy and improved
  - LD Vaak

I don't think you understand the vast upgrade to the defensive unit along with added balance and physicality (Gudas and Lyubushkin) to the blueline. Nor comprehend how missing Drysdale and Vaak were significant for last year's club.

Vaak
- last year
  - GP = 23
  - Pts = 0g + 2a = 2 pts
  - +/- = -16
- This year
  - GP = 68
  - Pts = 1g + 13a = 14 pts
  - +/- = +0

=================
Top Scorers
=================

Ducks	2022-23	Top-10	Scorers
Player	Forward	GP	G	A	Pts
Zegras	1	81	23	42	65
Terry	1	70	23	38	61
Fowler
Mac	1	80	17	26	43
Vatrano	1	81	22	19	41
Strome	1	82	15	26	41
Rico	1	62	22	16	38
Shatty
Silf	1	81	10	16	26
Klingberg

Totals	7	537	132	183	315

Hockey-reference source: 2022-23

Ducks	2023-24	Top-10	Scorers
Player	Forward	GP	G	A	Pts
Vatrano	1	82	37	23	60
Terry	1	76	20	34	54
Mac	1	64	19	23	42
Rico	1	60	18	24	42
Strome	1	79	11	30	41
Fowler
Killorn	1	63	18	18	36
Carlsson	1	55	12	17	29
Minty
Leason	1	68	11	11	22

Totals	8	547	146	180	326

Hockey-reference source: 2023-24

This year's forwards in the top-10 scorers chart shows it played more games (+10 games), scored more goals (+14 goals), and scored more points (+11 pts) than last year's forwards in the top-10. Sure, this year's forward group did get injured, but it appears they had more than enough talent to surpass last year's forward group in the top-10 scoring. Like I said, the addition of Killorn and Carlsson helped to offset injuries in our top-6.

Huh. Maybe that's why Verbeek said he needed more scoring from his bottom-6?

Hmmm...

GF
- Last year: 209
- This year: 204

GA
- Last year: 338
- This year: 295

Huh... With a vastly better defense this year and comparable goal scoring, we are just 1 point better.

Hockey Duckie · Apr 19, 2024

Zegs2sendhelp said:
I dont recall eakins being mgmt ownership or coach last season do you?

Also well lisa

This season: 2023-24
Last season: 2022-23

Source: Hockey-Reference

Yup. You're on par with Verbeek, alright.

The Midnight Burrito · Apr 19, 2024

Mr Rogers said:
Interesting tweets from Wood. Some of his tweets over the past year have had bitter undertones.

I also think he’s off base. Cronin may not be a great coach either but Eakins wasn’t the answer.

He's not saying Eakins was the answer, he's saying Eakins wasn't the question.

And he's not wrong. They changed a whole bunch of stuff up, including the coach, and whaddaya know, same shit. Arguably worse shit, really. You can argue Cronin would have a had a better season IF [fewer injuries / no holdouts / longer training camp / no stupid load management] and that's fine, just recognize that it's a hypothetical because he DIDN'T have a better season than Eakins. And because it's hypothetical, Wood isn't wrong.

There's no serious argument to make that Cronin had a good first season. Lots of question marks about this guy and it's fair to wonder if he's any better of a coach thank Eakins was. I recognize that that isn't an argument for keeping Eakins.

ScarTroy · Apr 19, 2024

Hockey Duckie said:
While you point to the forward group, you completely ignore the defensive group. This year's team can absorb the loss of Drysdale to injury such that we are able to trade Drysdale away for Cutter. Vaak being healthy this year helped to absorb the loss of Drysdale. Last year's team didn't have Drysdale or a healthy Vaak that we see producing now. Can you imagine how many more wins last year's team could have had with a healthy Drysdale and a healthy, productive Vaaks at the very least?

Defensive roster upgrade

New to club

RD Gudas

RD Lybushkin

LD Minty

LD/RD LaCombe

RD Luneau

RD Lindstrom

LD/RD Zellweger

Healthy and improved

LD Vaak

I don't think you understand the vast upgrade to the defensive unit along with added balance and physicality (Gudas and Lyubushkin) to the blueline. Nor comprehend how missing Drysdale and Vaak were significant for last year's club.

Vaak

last year

GP = 23

Pts = 0g + 2a = 2 pts

+/- = -16

This year

GP = 68

Pts = 1g + 13a = 14 pts

+/- = +0

=================
Top Scorers
=================

Ducks 2022-23 Top-10 Scorers
Player Forward GP G A Pts
Zegras
1
81
23
42
65
Terry
1
70
23
38
61
Fowler
Mac
1
80
17
26
43
Vatrano
1
81
22
19
41
Strome
1
82
15
26
41
Rico
1
62
22
16
38
Shatty
Silf
1
81
10
16
26
Klingberg
Totals
7
537
132
183
315

Hockey-reference source: 2022-23

Ducks 2023-24 Top-10 Scorers
Player Forward GP G A Pts
Vatrano
1
82
37
23
60
Terry
1
76
20
34
54
Mac
1
64
19
23
42
Rico
1
60
18
24
42
Strome
1
79
11
30
41
Fowler
Killorn
1
63
18
18
36
Carlsson
1
55
12
17
29
Minty
Leason
1
68
11
11
22
Totals
8
547
146
180
326

Hockey-reference source: 2023-24

This year's forwards in the top-10 scorers chart shows it played more games (+10 games), scored more goals (+14 goals), and scored more points (+11 pts) than last year's forwards in the top-10. Sure, this year's forward group did get injured, but it appears they had more than enough talent to surpass last year's forward group in the top-10 scoring. Like I said, the addition of Killorn and Carlsson helped to offset injuries in our top-6.

Huh. Maybe that's why Verbeek said he needed more scoring from his bottom-6?

Hmmm...

GF

Last year: 209

This year: 204

GA

Last year: 338

This year: 295

Huh... With a vastly better defense this year and comparable goal scoring, we are just 1 point better.

Brother you can’t tell me I’m ignoring that this season had a better defensive group, while literally ignoring that very first sentence. Neither team had Drysdale so that’s moot, but if you’re going to tell me you think last years team does better with a healthy Vaak then this team would have done with a healthy Zegras you are out of your mind.

SoCal Dreaming · Apr 19, 2024

New players, New system, More rookies, Injury on key players.
I still say this season has more watchable games than last year. Last season I didnt even try watching them. This season, I atleast watch, try to watch or attempt to watch a few periods.
Personally, I'll give Cronin another year.

CrazyDuck4u · Apr 19, 2024

SoCal Dreaming said:
New players, New system, More rookies, Injury on key players.
I still say this season has more watchable games than last year. Last season I didnt even try watching them. This season, I atleast watch, try to watch or attempt to watch a few periods.
Personally, I'll give Cronin another year.

Well yah.. Rumors are his contract was for 2 years.. So give him another year.. I like his attitude.. I just don't think he is an NHL coach.. We could have done better.. I'm guessing the owners don't want to pay for a legit NHL coach with experience

Leonardo87 · Apr 19, 2024

As I said before. Cronin should get new assistants and one more season with a better roster, that can hopefully stay mostly healthy. I liked what we saw down the stretch, had a few more wins and looked competitive.

Let’s see how next year goes. It’s going to be an important year if they are going to transition from a rebuilding team to a bubble/playoff contender.

Verbeek wants playoffs. Well he has a lot of work to do. Get Cronin help on the ice and behind the bench.

Hey234 · Apr 19, 2024

Leonardo87 said:
As I said before. Cronin should get new assistants and one more season with a better roster, that can hopefully stay mostly healthy. I liked what we saw down the stretch, had a few more wins and looked competitive.

Let’s see how next year goes. It’s going to be an important year if they are going to transition from a rebuilding team to a bubble/playoff contender.

Verbeek wants playoffs. Well he has a lot of work to do. Get Cronin help on the ice and behind the bench.

I just can't emphasize enough how important assistant coaches are to the success of a team. When Geoff Ward left the Ducks, there was a clear and obvious change in the way the Ducks defended and played on the PK. That change was not for the better. It clarifies for me the impact they have.

The special teams were a complete failure this season. If Cronin, or the Ducks for that matter, want any chance of success next season, they have to make changes. It would be a massive mistake and red flag for me to come back without changes to the assistant coaches.

Hockey Duckie · Apr 19, 2024

ScarTroy said:
Brother you can’t tell me I’m ignoring that this season had a better defensive group, while literally ignoring that very first sentence. Neither team had Drysdale so that’s moot, but if you’re going to tell me you think last years team does better with a healthy Vaak then this team would have done with a healthy Zegras you are out of your mind.

What part of me showing you the top scorers for both seasons did you not understand? Our forward group scored more goals and points this year than last year's forwards in the top-10 scoring. Do you know how that happened even though Z only played 31 games? We added Killorn and Carlsson.

Forward scoring in our top-10 scoring this year compared to last year
- Forwards: +1 player
- Goals: +14 goals
- Points: +11 points

You literally have no argument about not having Zegras in 51 games when other players made up for his loss. Or are you telling me that with an improved forwards scoring in the top-10 and vastly improved blueline that Cronin doesn't know how to win games? Because that's how you're coming off.

Also, I listed the mass influx of talent on the blueline. You don't understand that losing Drysdale this year didn't matter, but last year's team it made a huge difference. Nor do you gather that this year's Vaak is vastly superior to the broken Vaaks of last year. Last year's defensive roster was so shit that practically everyone that wasn't injured was replaced save Fowler.

This year's team had more talent at forward and defense to absorb losses of talent that its top-end forwards were still able to produce more than last year's top-end forwards as well as it's defense immensely improved it's GA. Yet all this improved roster can do is muster one measly, extra point.

I can only lead you to actual facts.

Hockey Duckie · Apr 19, 2024

Hey234 said:
I just can't emphasize enough how important assistant coaches are to the success of a team. When Geoff Ward left the Ducks, there was a clear and obvious change in the way the Ducks defended and played on the PK. That change was not for the better. It clarifies for me the impact they have.

The special teams were a complete failure this season. If Cronin, or the Ducks for that matter, want any chance of success next season, they have to make changes. It would be a massive mistake and red flag for me to come back without changes to the assistant coaches.

Back in 2021-22, Geoff Ward and Newell Brown were assistant coaches brought in to improve the PP unit. Stothers was brought in to improve the PK unit.

=======================
2021-22 Assistant Coaches
PP: Ward & Brown
PK: Stothers

Ducks	2021-22	ST
Game Set	Games	PPG	PPO	PP Eff	.	PK GA	TSH	PK Eff
Total	82	48	219	21.9%		43	224	80.8%

1 to 33	33	23	90	25.6%		12	85	85.9%
34 to 62	29	19	85	22.4%		17	89	80.9%
63 to 82	20	6	44	13.6%		14	50	72.0%

Both units were humming along the top of the league at the PP and PK. At one point, I think both were in the top-8 before the TDL.

At the TDL, we lost three PK'ers in LD Lindholm, RD Manson, and LW Des. On the PP, we lost RW Rakell. Fowler and Shatty had to shoulder more of the PK duties, which affected their PP play.

=======================
2022-23 Assistant Coaches
PP: Ward & Brown
PK: Stothers

Ducks	2022-23	ST
Game Set	Games	PPG	PPO	PP Eff	.	PK GA	TSH	PK Eff
Total	82	36	229	15.7%		78	280	72.1%

1 to 25	25	12	72	16.7%		31	89	65.2%
26 to 49	24	11	69	15.9%		17	81	79.0%
50 to 61	12	5	36	13.9%		10	44	77.3%
62 to 82	21	8	52	15.4%		20	66	69.7%

Without Ward around, our PP stagnated at the bottom and never resurfaced back up to the 20% realm.

Defensively, we got a shit roster with a lot of fringe NHL to AHL defensemen playing. It took Stothers about 25 games to figure out how to best utilize this new batch of defensemen who don't know how to defend.

=======================
2023-24 Assistant Coaches
PP: Brown
PK: Thompson

Ducks	2023-24	ST
Game Set	Games	PPG	PPO	PP Eff	.	PK GA	TSH	PK Eff
Total	82	42	235	17.9%		91	330	72.4%

1 to 25	25	18	81	22.2%		22	110	80.0%
26 to 49	24	10	71	14.1%		22	91	75.8%
50 to 62	13	8	35	22.9%		16	47	66.0%
63 to 82	20	6	48	12.5%		31	82	62.2%

Brown is highly inconsistent. Early in the season, we had like 6.9% PP eff or something like that. Then Vatrano got white hot in a short spell to boost us into the 20% range. I told myself I couldn't believe it and that I couldn't trust the productions. The PP is reliant upon individual performances getting hot. And if there isn't a player that's hot, then ::: insert the obligatory science fiction movie quote ::: "The system is down. The system is down."

Defensively, we were great to start the season! Then we deteriorated as the season went. It's completely different from when Stother's had last year's group start of abysmal and then improve throughout the season until the TDL.

I'm okay with moving on from Thompson, but I doubt we do because it is his first year here with Cronin.

ScarTroy · Apr 19, 2024

Hockey Duckie said:
What part of me showing you the top scorers for both seasons did you not understand? Our forward group scored more goals and points this year than last year's forwards in the top-10 scoring. Do you know how that happened even though Z only played 31 games? We added Killorn and Carlsson.

Forward scoring in our top-10 scoring this year compared to last year

Forwards: +1 player

Goals: +14 goals

Points: +11 points

You literally have no argument about not having Zegras in 51 games when other players made up for his loss. Or are you telling me that with an improved forwards scoring in the top-10 and vastly improved blueline that Cronin doesn't know how to win games? Because that's how you're coming off.

Also, I listed the mass influx of talent on the blueline. You don't understand that losing Drysdale this year didn't matter, but last year's team it made a huge difference. Nor do you gather that this year's Vaak is vastly superior to the broken Vaaks of last year. Last year's defensive roster was so shit that practically everyone that wasn't injured was replaced save Fowler.

This year's team had more talent at forward and defense to absorb losses of talent that its top-end forwards were still able to produce more than last year's top-end forwards as well as it's defense immensely improved it's GA. Yet all this improved roster can do is muster one measly, extra point.

I can only lead you to actual facts.

On paper, yes, Cronin had a vastly improved forward core. That only counts though if he’s able to actually utilize them at the same time. If last year I had 6 quarters, and this year I had 8 but lost 2 of them, I can still only buy something worth $1.50. I shouldn’t expect those remaining quarters to have the buying power of $2.00.

Also I don’t have the stats to calculate since I’m only on my phone, so correct me if I’m wrong, but of our true bottom 6 players, this years way underperformed last years. If we get the same production out of our bottom 6 as last year, we win more games.

JAHV · Apr 20, 2024

The Midnight Burrito said:
He's not saying Eakins was the answer, he's saying Eakins wasn't the question.

And he's not wrong. They changed a whole bunch of stuff up, including the coach, and whaddaya know, same shit. Arguably worse shit, really. You can argue Cronin would have a had a better season IF [fewer injuries / no holdouts / longer training camp / no stupid load management] and that's fine, just recognize that it's a hypothetical because he DIDN'T have a better season than Eakins. And because it's hypothetical, Wood isn't wrong.

There's no serious argument to make that Cronin had a good first season. Lots of question marks about this guy and it's fair to wonder if he's any better of a coach thank Eakins was. I recognize that that isn't an argument for keeping Eakins.

Cronin didn't have a good first season, but he definitely had a better season compared to last year. They gave up 44 fewer goals and 7 fewer shots per game.

mightyquack · Apr 20, 2024

If there is ever a symbol of how much we have sucked the last 6 years, it's the fact that some people are still hung up on one of the worst coaches in NHL history in Eakins.

The guy was a terrible NHL coach no matter what sort of argument is put forward.

Is Cronin the answer? Probably not, but the answer is certainly not Eakins.

Hockey Duckie · Apr 20, 2024

ScarTroy said:
On paper, yes, Cronin had a vastly improved forward core. That only counts though if he’s able to actually utilize them at the same time. If last year I had 6 quarters, and this year I had 8 but lost 2 of them, I can still only buy something worth $1.50. I shouldn’t expect those remaining quarters to have the buying power of $2.00.

Also I don’t have the stats to calculate since I’m only on my phone, so correct me if I’m wrong, but of our true bottom 6 players, this years way underperformed last years. If we get the same production out of our bottom 6 as last year, we win more games.

I've shared that actual metrics with you, but none of it seems to resonate with you. And I don't understand why you move the goal post from our top-6 forwards to our bottom-6 forwards. You don't want to accept information.

New to the club

Top-6 Forwards: Killorn, Carlsson

Defense: Gudas, Lyubushkin, Minty, LaCombe, Luneau, Lindstrom, Zellweger, and Lagesson

Defense, healthy: Vaak

We had a top-8 instead of a top-6. You can use your basic 8 quarters and only have 6 quarter available example, but it's too basic. I'll give you a table for you to follow along to prove your example is wrong.

We only had a top-6 in 2022-23.

Ducks	2022-23	Top-6	Forwards
Player	Forward	GP	G	A	Pts
Zegras	1	81	23	42	65
Terry	1	70	23	38	61
Mac	1	80	17	26	43
Vatrano	1	81	22	19	41
Strome	1	82	15	26	41
Rico	1	62	22	16	38

Totals	6	456	122	167	289

In 2023-24, we added Killorn and Carlsson to the top-6 talents on the team. It expands our top-6 forward talents to eight players.

Ducks	2023-24	Top-6	Forwards
Player	Forward	GP	G	A	Pts
Vatrano	1	82	37	23	60
Terry	1	76	20	34	54
Mac	1	64	19	23	42
Rico	1	60	18	24	42
Strome	1	79	11	30	41
Killorn	1	63	18	18	36
Carlsson	1	55	12	17	29
Zegras	1	31	6	9	15

Totals	8	510	141	178	319

We added +40 games played, +19 goals, +11 assists, and +30 points to our top-6 talents. We didn't lose offensive production despite the varying injuries to our top-6 talents. Then we added scoring talents at the end of the year in RW Colangelo and LW Cutter. Cutter helped us get that 2nd goal to blow the last game open for the win to put this year's team ahead by 1 point than last year's team.

GF and GA
- Last year
  - GF = 209
  - GA = 338
  - GD = -129
- This year
  - GF = 204
  - GA = 295
  - GA = -91

There. Those are the basic info. With a better roster, this year's team only put up 1 more point than last year's club. The GF is comparable, but did you look at that GA difference. That's a huge improvement in GA, right? So how is it there's a vast improvement on defense, but it didn't translate to more points?

Zegs2sendhelp · Apr 20, 2024

Morning Eakins sucks at coaching

Good day

The Midnight Burrito · Apr 20, 2024

JAHV said:
Cronin didn't have a good first season, but he definitely had a better season compared to last year. They gave up 44 fewer goals and 7 fewer shots per game.

Which is why the debates about injuries and roster quality matter at all. But the point stands.

Deuce22 · Apr 20, 2024

The Eakins v. Cronin debate is pointless. Eakins had 4 years and couldn’t get it done. Ducks were historically bad defensively in his final season. The jury is still out on Cronin. My position is that he should get one more year with new assistants. Agenda driven debate is boring, the past is in the rear view mirror. Game 82 gave me some hope.

AngelDuck · Apr 20, 2024

Cronin will get the next 2 seasons to show what he’s got.

Right now I’m completely indifferent on him.

I’m not sure how you can say if he’s a good or bad coach with what we’ve seen so far. The fact is most of his best players were either under 21 and/or missed 20+ games due to injury last season.

We were A LOT healthier Eakins’ last season than this past one.

Eakins was an NHL coach for like 6 seasons and the results are pretty laughable. He’s a dud. Give Cronin his 3 seasons before we judge if he’s another dud

The only thing that so far concerns me about Cronin is his advice to the players to shoot from anywhere. We’re a little too benevolent at times but I hope that advice doesn’t discourage the highly skilled playMakers from making the right pass when they should

I’m pretty pleased with the way we looked defensively this season considering all the injuries. We were no where near as badly outplayed

ScarTroy · Apr 20, 2024

Hockey Duckie said:
There. Those are the basic info. With a better roster, this year's team only put up 1 more point than last year's club. The GF is comparable, but did you look at that GA difference. That's a huge improvement in GA, right? So how is it there's a vast improvement on defense, but it didn't translate to more points?

Because getting better on Defense doesn’t put the puck in the net. We don’t score enough to win, and we haven’t improved enough on Defense to overcome that, even though we did drastically improve on defense. We got walked out of the building this year, as opposed to ran out of them last year. Both coaches suck ass, let’s be honest. Cronin is going to need to get more offensive production out of his team next year, or he’ll be like Eakins, coaching in some second rate club in Europe, or back riding the bus in the AHL.

anezthes · Apr 20, 2024

4 more wins, 3 more losses. Yay.

The Midnight Burrito · Apr 20, 2024

Deuce22 said:
The Eakins v. Cronin debate is pointless. Eakins had 4 years and couldn’t get it done. Ducks were historically bad defensively in his final season. The jury is still out on Cronin. My position is that he should get one more year with new assistants. Agenda driven debate is boring, the past is in the rear view mirror. Game 82 gave me some hope.

This is kind of what you end up with when your season is basically over in December.

Leonardo87 · Apr 20, 2024

Deuce22 said:
The Eakins v. Cronin debate is pointless. Eakins had 4 years and couldn’t get it done. Ducks were historically bad defensively in his final season. The jury is still out on Cronin. My position is that he should get one more year with new assistants. Agenda driven debate is boring, the past is in the rear view mirror. Game 82 gave me some hope.

Ducks improved defensively this year, but regressed slightly offensively….

2022-23 Season..

2023-24 season….

Zegs2sendhelp · Apr 20, 2024

Leonardo87 said:
Ducks improved defensively this year, but regressed slightly offensively….

2022-23 Season..
View attachment 855736
2023-24 season….
View attachment 855737

Fixing the special teams would go a long way with fixing the team

And face offs….

Starting majority of shifts chasing the puck isn’t a good way to create offense/ and doesn’t help the defensive numbers either

DavidBL · Apr 20, 2024

Leonardo87 said:
Ducks improved defensively this year, but regressed slightly offensively….

2022-23 Season..
View attachment 855736
2023-24 season….
View attachment 855737

We did lose 120 games from top 6 players this year. So every game this year we where short on average 1-2 top 6 forwards.

2023-2024 Coaching/Management/Ownership

EEK!

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