Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Let’s Run it Back!

[forsbergavs32]

A short time to celebrate then back to work for Joe/C-Mac.

Bring back everyone you can, guys.

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[MarkT]

Here's my current thinking:
Obviously re-sign Nate and Nichushkin as well as the RFAs.
Trade Compher based on his presumably currently inflated value. Some team that has playoff aspirations will surely take him.
If EJ retires, consider re-signing Kadri. Otherwise consider trading Girard, possibly in a 3-way that nets us a 2C or starting goalie.
A possible candidate for 2C that might be cheap to acquire would be Adam Henrique (especially if the Ducks will retain). Otherwise I'm not seeing a ton of 2C trade candidates. We'd probably be looking at the free agent market (Trocheck, Strome, Paul), but I would be surprised if none of the good 2C options make it to the market.
I still think Landeskog would make a great 2C, but if they don't want to do that, Rantanen might have to fill that role for now. I mean, we just won the cup with Landy essentially playing 2C, so...

 

[dahrougem2]

Replying to @Richard88 from the other thread:

I think we saw all season long how the Avs feel about Alex Newhook: LW through and through. I really do believe next year's 3rd line is Newhook - Meyers - Compher.

As for 2C... I'm not a fan of Andrew Copp. Winger more than centre IMO. Trochek... I don't know. I feel like he is going to get PAID on the open market. 28 year old right shot centre and has historically been a 50+ point player on both Florida and Carolina.

Samuel Girard really is the key for this team. Sakic has to get it right, because we've now seen what Byram can do when the leash is taken off. Guy played more than Makar last night as we won the Cup. Unreal. Girard cannot be saddled with 3rd pairing minutes nor can he play with Bo/Cale.

You either move him for a 2C or for a legit starter but I think whatever route you choose, Sammy is a goner. Sakic has to get that trade right.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Richard88]

Replying to @Richard88 from the other thread:

I think we saw all season long how the Avs feel about Alex Newhook: LW through and through. I really do believe next year's 3rd line is Newhook - Meyers - Compher.

As for 2C... I'm not a fan of Andrew Copp. Winger more than centre IMO. Trochek... I don't know. I feel like he is going to get PAID on the open market. 28 year old right shot centre and has historically been a 50+ point player on both Florida and Carolina.

Samuel Girard really is the key for this team. Sakic has to get it right, because we've now seen what Byram can do when the leash is taken off. Guy played more than Makar last night as we won the Cup. Unreal. Girard cannot be saddled with 3rd pairing minutes nor can he play with Bo/Cale.

You either move him for a 2C or for a legit starter but I think whatever route you choose, Sammy is a goner. Sakic has to get that trade right.

I agree, Newhook should be seen as a winger, not a center. And that being the case, he should be on the table in trade talks for a 2C or goalie.

Regarding Girard, another angle to look at it from is that Byram could replace Toews on the top pairing, rather than replacing Girard on the 2nd pairing...

On the ice, Byram showed in the SCF that he can boss it on the big stage and with big minutes. We also increasingly saw him paired with Makar at 5v5, which will likely happen more and more moving forward.

Value-wise, you have Girard on a good contract in his prime for 5 years, but Toews for only two, so keeping Girard is perhaps the prudent move given that Girard offers long-term value and stability, unless of course you can sign Toews to a good extension.

That said, trading Toews before 2023 shouldn't really be an option as there's too much value there at $4.1m x2. Toews as a pending UFA in 2023 would effectively be another Barrie situation though, albeit at LHD instead of RHD. In that sense it might present a perfect opportunity for another 2C solution like Kadri, or perhaps for a younger 2C if the other team want to re-sign Toews long-term.

The main problem with that approach is that we'd have to wait until 2023 for a 2C solution via a Toews trade, but the Avs need a 2C for 2022-23 as well. That being the case maybe you mortgage the future with a futures package (something like Newhook + Olausson + 1st) for JT Miller to plug 2C for 2022-23, and then in 2023 you either re-sign Miller if possible or move Toews for a long-term 2C solution. That way you maximise the teams cup chances in 2022-23 while keeping all of Byram/Toews/Girard, and then roll with a top 4 of Byram-Makar and Girard-(Manson) long-term after getting solid value out of Toews as an asset instead of walking him to UFA.

 

[dahrougem2]

I agree, Newhook should be seen as a winger, not a center. And that being the case, he should be on the table in trade talks for a 2C or goalie.

Regarding Girard, another angle to look at it from is that Byram could replace Toews on the top pairing, rather than replacing Girard on the 2nd pairing...

On the ice, Byram showed in the SCF that he can boss it on the big stage and with big minutes. We also increasingly saw him paired with Makar at 5v5, which will likely happen more and more moving forward.

Value-wise, you have Girard on a good contract in his prime for 5 years, but Toews for only two, so keeping Girard is perhaps the prudent move given that Girard offers long-term value and stability, unless of course you can sign Toews to a good extension.

That said, trading Toews before 2023 shouldn't really be an option as there's too much value there at $4.1m x2. Toews as a pending UFA in 2023 would effectively be another Barrie situation though, albeit at LHD instead of RHD. In that sense it might present a perfect opportunity for another 2C solution like Kadri, or perhaps for a younger 2C if the other team want to re-sign Toews long-term.

The main problem with that approach is that we'd have to wait until 2023 for a 2C solution via a Toews trade, but the Avs need a 2C for 2022-23 as well. That being the case maybe you mortgage the future with a futures package (something like Newhook + Olausson + 1st) for JT Miller to plug 2C for 2022-23, and then in 2023 you either re-sign Miller if possible or move Toews for a long-term 2C solution. That way you maximise the teams cup chances in 2022-23 while keeping all of Byram/Toews/Girard, and then roll with a top 4 of Byram-Makar and Girard-(Manson) long-term after getting solid value out of Toews as an asset instead of walking him to UFA.

I just feel like Girard needs insulation in the playoffs. Whether that be Erik Johnson or Josh Manson, he needs someone there that can skate AND play physical. I don't want to have to shield him on his defensive pairing.

Now, other teams might feel the exact same way and think "why should we trade for this guy?" so it makes moving Toews easier. But to me, Toews > Girard and you have to keep Toews here.

 

[Ncit3]

So are we going to start throwing picks against the wall to find a goalie? Are any teams stacked at goalie and have a super talented prospect to move for something we have? I like Darcy as a person, but I don't want to watch him in net any longer.

 

[Richard88]

Further to my post above, this is how a Toews 2023 trade scenario could play out:

2022 off-season: Newhook + futures for JT Miller.

2022/23 roster:

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichuskin
Lehkonen - JT Miller - Rantanen
Meyers - Compher - xxxxx
xxxxx ----- xxxxx ---- O'Connor

Toews - Makar
Byram - EJ
Girard - Manson

xxxx
Franxouz



2023 off-season: Trade Toews for 2C.

2023/24 roster:

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichuskin
Lehkonen - (Toews trade) - Rantanen
Meyers - JTC/UFA - xxxx
xxxxx --- xxxxx --- O'Connor

Byram - Makar
Girard - Manson
Behrens? - EJ/xxx

xxxx
Francouz

 

[dahrougem2]

So are we going to start throwing picks against the wall to find a goalie? Are any teams stacked at goalie and have a super talented prospect to move for something we have? I like Darcy as a person, but I don't want to watch him in net any longer.

If you're looking at a UFA option it's either Husso or Fleury most likely, neither guy being appealing.

If you're going the trade route, I think any of John Gibson, Linus Ullmark, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jonathan Quick, Cal Petersen, Jake Allen, Mackenzie Blackwood, Semyon Varlamov, Matt Murray, or Ilya Samsonov could be had.

There are obviously options on that list that I hate (Bobrovsky, Quick, Petersen, Allen, Blackwood, Murray, Samsonov) but there is no shortage of goalies to be had this summer.

Joe has to ensure he finds the right guy.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don’t think Fleury is really that great but I do think he’s sign in Colorado for a discount

 

[MarkT]

Further to my post above, this is how a Toews 2023 trade scenario could play out:

2022 off-season: Newhook + futures for JT Miller.

2022/23 roster:

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichuskin
Lehkonen - JT Miller - Rantanen
Meyers - Compher - xxxxx
xxxxx ----- xxxxx ---- O'Connor

Toews - Makar
Byram - EJ
Girard - Manson

xxxx
Franxouz



2023 off-season: Trade Toews for 2C.

2023/24 roster:

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichuskin
Lehkonen - (Toews trade) - Rantanen
Meyers - JTC/UFA - xxxx
xxxxx --- xxxxx --- O'Connor

Byram - Makar
Girard - Manson
Behrens? - EJ/xxx

xxxx
Francouz

My issue is if we're paying the price of Newhook++ that it would take to get Miller, I won't want to have to turn around one year later and send out more assets to fill that same need.

 

[Richard88]

I just feel like Girard needs insulation in the playoffs. Whether that be Erik Johnson or Josh Manson, he needs someone there that can skate AND play physical. I don't want to have to shield him on his defensive pairing.

Now, other teams might feel the exact same way and think "why should we trade for this guy?" so it makes moving Toews easier. But to me, Toews > Girard and you have to keep Toews here.

The issue I see with keeping Toews is threefold:

- He's on a soon-to-expire contract, so the value of the contract diminishes sooner than Girard, and even goes to zero as he hits UFA in 2 years.

- He's soon entering his 30's (maybe not a huge issue as he doesn't have much longevity but relative to Girard he's not going to be in his prime as long; and

- He's going to warrant a huge raise on his current AAV which will make it harder to keep other parts of the roster competitive. For example Toews at $8m vs Girard $5m could be the difference in keeping Lehkonen (~$4m) or having to replace him with a ~1m forward. Personally I'd take Girard + Lehkonen over Toews + $1m forward.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying that trading Toews is the right way to go. I'm simply exploring and presenting the logic for the idea as an alternative to trading Girard.

 

[Richard Doll]

I really wanted Newhook to be the next big thing at center, and he may still be, but right now he looks more like a Burky replacement than a Kadri replacement and we still need to find a Kadri replacement (or find a way to keep the one we have).

I honestly don't want to break the bank on Kadri. If we can get him for 2-3 years, fine, but that isn't going to happen, and we shouldn't be giving him longer than that with his age.

I would be on board with trading Sammy G for a 2C, I think Byram has claimed a role on the second pairing.

 

[Muffin]

Wonder how long until Sakic moves up and hand the job to MacFarland? At this point it’s clear you either give him Sakic’s job or lose him to another team.

 

[JLo217]

I don’t think Fleury is really that great but I do think he’s sign in Colorado for a discount

For anyone who doesn’t like Kuemper, Fleury would drive them nuts.

Wonder how long until Sakic moves up and hand the job to MacFarland? At this point it’s clear you either give him Sakic’s job or lose him to another team.

They speculated about that on 32 thoughts.

Adding they blocked him from interviewing.

 

[Richard88]

If you're looking at a UFA option it's either Husso or Fleury most likely, neither guy being appealing.

If you're going the trade route, I think any of John Gibson, Linus Ullmark, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jonathan Quick, Cal Petersen, Jake Allen, Mackenzie Blackwood, Semyon Varlamov, Matt Murray, or Ilya Samsonov could be had.

There are obviously options on that list that I hate (Bobrovsky, Quick, Petersen, Allen, Blackwood, Murray, Samsonov) but there is no shortage of goalies to be had this summer.

Joe has to ensure he finds the right guy.

Can someone who's watched him a lot sell me on Jake Allen?

Seems like he's put up good numbers when he's been on good teams.

$2.875m x 1 year ($3.75m salary) is in Sakic's wheelhouse for a starter too, as compared to $3.33m x3 for Grubauer and $3.5m x1 for Kuemper.

 

[Foppberg]

32 Thoughts Friedman on Kadri: Very curious if there's any chance Kadri stays in Colorado. Not going to be an easy thing, but talking to people in Denver this week and they said he (Kadri) knows what a good thing he has here in Colorado. Don't know if it's possible, but I do wonder if there's a chance it could be worked out.

 

[Richard88]

My issue is if we're paying the price of Newhook++ that it would take to get Miller, I won't want to have to turn around one year later and send out more assets to fill that same need.

You could also look at it from the perspective that letting Toews walk in UFA would more of less be the same in terms of asset management as giving up those futures for JT Miller, since Toews would robably have similar value as JT Miller (ie. pending UFA top pair Dman vs pending UFA 1C).

 

[MarkT]

Can someone who's watched him a lot sell me on Jake Allen?

Seems like he's put up good numbers when he's been on good teams.

$2.875m x 1 year ($3.75m salary) is in Sakic's wheelhouse for a starter too, as compared to $3.33m x3 for Grubauer and $3.5m x1 for Kuemper.

I would say a lot, but on the Habs he's been, steady. I see him more as a high end backup or maybe a 1B, so basically Frankie.

 

[Avaholic29]

Bring back the vets in helm and cogs, that fourth lines forechecking is next level good with O’Connor.

 

[MarkT]

You could also look at it from the perspective that letting Toews walk in UFA would more of less be the same in terms of asset management as giving up those futures for JT Miller, since Toews would robably have similar value as JT Miller (ie. pending UFA top pair Dman vs pending UFA 1C).

I get that. I'm not totally opposed to moving Toews, but if you're moving Newhook+++ as well as Toews, I'd hope those would be to fill two different holes long-term, not the same hole in back-to-back years.

 

[dahrougem2]

Can someone who's watched him a lot sell me on Jake Allen?

Seems like he's put up good numbers when he's been on good teams.

$2.875m x 1 year ($3.75m salary) is in Sakic's wheelhouse for a starter too, as compared to $3.33m x3 for Grubauer and $3.5m x1 for Kuemper.

All you need to know about Jake Allen is the very instant St. Louis pushed him aside for Jordan Binnington, they won the Stanley Cup.

Allen is a no-go.

 

[Pokecheque]

I would say a lot, but on the Habs he's been, steady. I see him more as a high end backup or maybe a 1B, so basically Frankie.

I love Frankie a lot but he’s not a 1B.

At this stage of his career I am not so sure Allen is either. He is still likely a high-end backup but in no way is he a legit starter.

 

[MarkT]

I love Frankie a lot but he’s not a 1B.

At this stage of his career I am not so sure Allen is either. He is still likely a high-end backup but in no way is he a legit starter.

I define a 1B as someone who is ideally a backup, but can get hot for long enough stretches that they can be your starter for parts of the season without hurting you. To me, that describes both Allen and Frankie.

 

[Foppberg]

Go get Gibson.