Pre-Game Talk: 2021 Training Camp

[Dr Quincy]

I'm eagerly awaiting all Bracco updates. Thanks.

 

[Lempo]

I'm changing my username to boom boom f***stick1235

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm changing my username to boom boom f***stick1235

I'm disappointed. It's been over 20 min. and nobody has responded that Boom Boom and f***stick are redundant.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Nothing to see here?

Nothing to see here.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Hopefully Nino won't be the same plug. Offense died on his stick last year. I posted the data a couple weeks ago but Nino-Aho-Teravainen was the least productive 1st line I could find in the entire league last year. Worse than Detroit's, LA's, Ottawa's, etc. Whereas SAT was the most productive 1st line in the NHL. Better than the Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak line.

Agree, I really think we need to stick with SAT and try to figure out a mix in the bottom 9 that works. SAT has that elite level chemistry that top lines like Boston's have, and I believe you really just shouldn't mess with that. Every single time that Boston has played one of their top 3 down and someone else up, it hasn't worked in their favor. I know we need a spark on that 2nd line but I just don't believe it's worth trying if it's at the expense of the SAT line. Plus, the SAT line is so young and haven't even played together that much, their ceiling is even higher than Boston's top line which has been arguably the best line in hockey for a few years. Keep SAT together and I think we could see all 3 players flirting with 100+ points (in normal, full seasons) at some point down the road.

 

[DougieSmash]

Any word on Hamilton change to #27?

 

[hblueridgegal]

It's like the Canes version of hazing, all promising new recruits must play on a line with Jordo.

A week or two ago on SiriusNHL, RBA spoke about being pleased that so many guys were in town early and how it allowed him to be able to watch them unofficially and advise. He sounded happy that they were back in the training and weight room already. Spoke of his disdain for Zoom communications. Kinda interesting that Necas was one of the last to return to Raleigh for camp.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Agree, I really think we need to stick with SAT and try to figure out a mix in the bottom 9 that works. SAT has that elite level chemistry that top lines like Boston's have, and I believe you really just shouldn't mess with that. Every single time that Boston has played one of their top 3 down and someone else up, it hasn't worked in their favor. I know we need a spark on that 2nd line but I just don't believe it's worth trying if it's at the expense of the SAT line. Plus, the SAT line is so young and haven't even played together that much, their ceiling is even higher than Boston's top line which has been arguably the best line in hockey for a few years. Keep SAT together and I think we could see all 3 players flirting with 100+ points (in normal, full seasons) at some point down the road.

Boston got really close, but ultimately didn't get it done at the highest level. Teams with those big lines generally haven't in the cap era. Hossa, Toews and Kane was never a thing. Crosby and Malkin played apart. Ditto Kopitar and Carter, Kuznetsov and Backstrom, and O'Reilly and Tarasenko. Balance wins. Big stats and a cool name are just that.

This team has three forwards that can be the 1st option on a legit scoring line. Pair them up and the rest, mostly 3rd wheel types, looks really pedestrian at best.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Boston got really close, but ultimately didn't get it done at the highest level. Teams with those big lines generally haven't in the cap era. Hossa, Toews and Kane was never a thing. Crosby and Malkin played apart. Ditto Kopitar and Carter, Kuznetsov and Backstrom, and O'Reilly and Tarasenko. Balance wins. Big stats and a cool name are just that.

This team has three forwards that can be the 1st option on a legit scoring line. Pair them up and the rest, mostly 3rd wheel types, looks really pedestrian at best.

The issue is that when separating guys with chemistry like SAT, you can wind up with no legit scoring lines. If Nino doesn't fit in on the top line, then the benefits that Svech would add to line 2 just are not worth it when the 1st line turns to (relative) crap. If Nino can fit in there and Svech develops chemistry with Tro/Necas, then great. But we didn't see that last year. I don't care about the stats, it's about what results in wins.

Boston has come damn close to winning it all with that top line, because of that top line. With the same roster all these years if they split them up I don't think they even come close. We have to work with what we've got. The other teams you listed were able to have more balance because of how their chemistry worked and the depth they had at wing. We likely don't have that luxury right now and the Bruins don't, which is why they've had much more success in recent years keeping their top line intact.

This is all assuming that guys like Nino/Foegele/etc. couldn't fit on the top line very well, which I think is a fair assumption based on last year's results with those combos. Of course, one of those guys could prove me wrong and that is 100% ideal, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Canes]

Just watched an interview of Staal on the Canes website, is he looking leaner to anyone else? Maybe he can keep up play this year after all.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The issue is that when separating guys with chemistry like SAT, you can wind up with no legit scoring lines. If Nino doesn't fit in on the top line, then the benefits that Svech would add to line 2 just are not worth it when the 1st line turns to (relative) crap. If Nino can fit in there and Svech develops chemistry with Tro/Necas, then great. But we didn't see that last year. I don't care about the stats, it's about what results in wins.

Boston has come damn close to winning it all with that top line, because of that top line. With the same roster all these years if they split them up I don't think they even come close. We have to work with what we've got. The other teams you listed were able to have more balance because of how their chemistry worked and the depth they had at wing. We likely don't have that luxury right now and the Bruins don't, which is why they've had much more success in recent years keeping their top line intact.

This is all assuming that guys like Nino/Foegele/etc. couldn't fit on the top line very well, which I think is a fair assumption based on last year's results with those combos. Of course, one of those guys could prove me wrong and that is 100% ideal, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't see unreal chemistry, at least in the sense that they need each other. I see three talented players with complimentary skillsets; Svechnikov is a goal scorer on the interior, Teravainen is a playmaker on the exterior and Aho is a a guy that can be either as necessary. It wasn't that long ago that Teravainen was playing the best hockey of his life next to Staal in the back half 18-19. Aho was very productive with Williams during that same stretch. Svechnikov certainly has the upside to be productive independent of similar caliber players.

I will agree that a 3rd wheel on the 1st line is a question mark. There will be opportunities to address that via trade, if the solution doesn't present itself internally.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't see unreal chemistry, at least in the sense that they need each other. I see three talented players with complimentary skillsets; Svechnikov is a goal scorer on the interior, Teravainen is a playmaker on the exterior and Aho is a a guy that can be either as necessary. It wasn't that long ago that Teravainen was playing the best hockey of his life next to Staal in the back half 18-19. Aho was very productive with Williams during that same stretch. Svechnikov certainly has the upside to be productive independent of similar caliber players.

I will agree that a 3rd wheel on the 1st line is a question mark. There will be opportunities to address that via trade, if the solution doesn't present itself internally.

Agree. TT, Aho and even Svech can pretty much play with anyone. Regardless of how the coaches line them up, the Canes really need production from someone other than these 3. Nino and Trochek have a track-record of producing but need to bounce back this year. Necas has the upside, and even Foegele has a little upside. Jordan stunk offensively the last couple of years as well.

Although I was saying earlier that I expect RBA to change the lines as needed as the season progresses and I still think that, after thinking about it more, I agree with Bleed that I don't expect wholesale changes vs. what he has today to start the season. Maybe Necas and Fast switch. Maybe Dzingel gets a shot at a higher role, but that's probably about it. The D pairings likely won't change and are a decent mix of a defensive guy (Slavin, Pesce, Fleury) on each pairing. There's only 8 days of camp with no pre-season, the roster is mostly the same as how they ended last year, and the shortened season means they need to hit the ground running.

 

[A Star is Burns]

We had times last year with the SAT line wasn't a thing. And when we couldn't score in those scenarios, we would stack the top line with them again. It's not that hard. I agree that their line's success isn't based on any uncanny chemistry. It's just based on their skill levels. But that means it's easy to move to that if it isn't working and you'll probably get results.

I prefer the stacked top line but I don't think there is an issue seeing if they can get some other guys going by spreading the wealth. Svech can likely do his thing anywhere (I expect a huge year from him no matter where he is) and the Finns can certainly play with Nino if he's close to his normal self and not the snake bitten player he was last year. I won't be shocked if Necas gets other opportunities at some point along with Dzingel. And of course, the biggest reason not to get too upset or attached to any one combo is there are going to be injuries and lineup shuffling all year long between covid and the compressed schedule.

 

[spockBokk]

I’m in the spread it around camp. I don’t like stacking the 1st line with Aho, Teravainen and Svechnikov. Secondary scoring was a major problem in the playoffs: I’d start off with pairs, Aho and Teravainen and Svechnikov with Trocheck, then plug in Necas/Niederreiter/Fast/
Dzingel as needed. A hopeful added benefit there would be that by giving Trocheck a legitimate star on his line, that he can be the 2C he has been in the past.

I like the idea of Fast with Aho and Teravainen. I’d prefer Necas with Trocheck and Svechnikov, but Niederreiter might be a good fit there. Niederreiter or Dzingel remembering how to hockey would be huge.

 

[CandyCanes]

Predictions. Who's going to have the biggest rebound year? Dzingle, Nino, or Staal?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Predictions. Who's going to have the biggest rebound year? Dzingle, Nino, or Staal?

I would think Nino is going to get the consistently best opportunities to do so. I'll go with him.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm changing my username to boom boom f***stick1235

I’ve always wanted to use Boo Boo Kitty f***.

 

[MinJaBen]

Predictions. Who's going to have the biggest rebound year? Dzingle, Nino, or Staal?

Mrazek.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Predictions. Who's going to have the biggest rebound year? Dzingle, Nino, or Staal?

IMO, Nino and Gards.

 

[Highway29]

I'd bet Nino. And Skinner.

 

[Helsinki Hurricanes]

It's clear Necas has a lot of skill and potential but the more I think about it, it's hard to fit him in (at least this year).

Couple of reasons:
1) RBA. He prefers strong two-way game which Necas is lacking right now limiting options.
2) Staal / center setup
For me, center setup is Aho, Tro/Staal, Geekie (Martinook). If Aho and TT play together Necas isn't a stylistic fit as a third wheel. With Staal's caphit he needs to play 2/3C which effectively makes one of those lines more of a defensive/matchup line where Necas is wasted. That leaves only Tro as a potential center for him.

With this logic I see Tro and Necas matched together for a sheltered 2/3 line but seemingly their chemistry is lacking. For me, this is the only logical place for him but yet he's not a good fit for it.

Of course Necas could play with Aho or Staal or even Geekie but it would require total overhaul of the lines. In the end I think it's going to be Nn/Fast, Aho, TT + Svech, Tro, Necas for the top 6.

 

[AD Skinner]

I kinda like the idea of trocheck and svechnikov together. I feel like they may have tried that briefly when trocheck first came on board but not for very long and not with memorable results. In theory though having a righty that can play north south and draw defenders might be a boon for svechnikov to play with and keeps the SAT line in the back pocket if you need it. We'll see

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Predictions. Who's going to have the biggest rebound year? Dzingle, Nino, or Staal?

Nino:
15/16: 43 points
16/17: 57 points
17/18: 32 points (41 point pace for 82 game season).
18/19: 53 points
19/20: 29 points (35 point pace for 82 game season).

Using foolproof, sound, and totally logical reasoning, he'll have the equivalent of a 50-55 point (pace) season this year.

 

[Svechhammer]

Our best lineup is one where we we spread out the scoring and can attack in waves. So it makes sense that we go into the season hoping that Nino works with Aho and Turbo again.

I'm not entirely sold on Necas being on the 3rd line, but given everyone else we have, not sure there's a better spot. Though, I could see our lines very quickly convert to something along the following:

Svech-Aho-Turbo
Necas-Trochek-Fast
Foegele-Staal-Nino

I hope we keep Bean up as a 7th man on defense. I'm excited to see what he's got this season.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Our best lineup is one where we we spread out the scoring and can attack in waves. So it makes sense that we go into the season hoping that Nino works with Aho and Turbo again.

I'm not entirely sold on Necas being on the 3rd line, but given everyone else we have, not sure there's a better spot. Though, I could see our lines very quickly convert to something along the following:

Svech-Aho-Turbo
Necas-Trochek-Fast
Foegele-Staal-Nino

I hope we keep Bean up as a 7th man on defense. I'm excited to see what he's got this season.

My guess is that Bean vs. Ryan will depend on who is injured. If it's a Slavin/Pesce "defensive" type, I think Rod will go with Ryan who reportedly has a better 2 way game and has more NHL experience. If it's a Gardiner / Dougie type, it may be Bean that gets a look.