Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion Part II

[WTFetus]

Speculation: - 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion

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[magic school bus]

Wait, how is it 5D chess for Jumbo & Patty to go to Toronto when Thornton signing there was a surprise?

 

[TheBeard]

I wanted to reply from posts in the first thread but now it just feels dumb.

 

[jarr92]

Eichel for Couture, 2nd in 2022, 2nd in 2023 - Do it DW

If the team isn't getting Eichel, DW could always go for quantity over 1 first liner. If it were me (and I was trying to compete for some dumb reason) I'd do a few of the following:

-Sign Tomas Nosek
-Sign Nikita Gusev (Barabanov's old teammate, much better KHL point production)
-Sign Anthony Duclair
-Sign Paul Stastny
-Sign Ryan Dzingel

Try to get 2-3 of these UFAs signed on cheap contracts. At best you have a fun team, at worst you have some tradeable assets at the trade deadline.

Edit: A potential lineup with a few of these cheap signings.

 

[Herschel]

There are many ways to build teams other than blowing it up and starting from scratch which fails far more often than it works.

Vegas' top line were all acquired via trade
NYI's top line... Komarov FA signing, Eberle via trade, only Barzal was drafted (middle of the first)
Tampa's top line... all were draft outside of the first round

Colorado's top line... is the best example of rebuild drafting with their entire top line being the result of drafting in the top ten but they still haven't made it out of the second round and it's been 12 years since they started their initial rebuild.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Wait, how is it 5D chess for Jumbo & Patty to go to Toronto when Thornton signing there was a surprise?

Or was it a surprise?

 

[Coily]

Can you elaborate on why you think blowing up the team and rebuilding doesn't work?

Pitt, Chicago, and Washington won their cups because of top 5 picks acquired from being terrible and blowing up their rosters.

 

[Cas]

I'm less concerned about blowing up the team than I am with moving some of the big contracts to aging players that are likely to be really awful in a year or two (like Burns and Couture) before their trade value hopelessly craters, which will allow the Sharks to have cap space available when they need it in the future (because other big contracts are likely immovable, like Vlasic and Karlsson, and some cap space will be eaten up in a near-certain buyout for Jones and perhaps a Vlasic buyout in a year or two as well) that they can use to resign players who they may want to keep and who will need a raise (like Hertl, Ferraro, maybe Meier, plus young guys coming off their ELCs in a few years, like Bordeleau or this year's #7 pick).

I also hope that the Sharks can get positive assets back that they can use to build for the future. Burns is not going to be a significant positive contributor to the next good Sharks team, and Couture probably isn't, but they might have value now to someone else that they won't have in a year or two.

 

[Herschel]

Can you elaborate on why you think blowing up the team and rebuilding doesn't work?

Pitt, Chicago, and Washington won their cups because of top 5 picks acquired from being terrible and blowing up their rosters.

Not saying it doesn't work only that it fails more often than it successed.

Chicago benefited from cap circumvention which is no longer possible.

Pittsburg won a league wide draft netting them the best player of the generation.

Washington has one cup which they won 14 years after drafting Ovie.

 

[DG93]

There are many ways to build teams other than blowing it up and starting from scratch which fails far more often than it works.

Vegas' top line were all acquired via trade
NYI's top line... Komarov FA signing, Eberle via trade, only Barzal was drafted (middle of the first)
Tampa's top line... all were draft outside of the first round

Colorado's top line... is the best example of rebuild drafting with their entire top line being the result of drafting in the top ten but they still haven't made it out of the second round and it's been 12 years since they started their initial rebuild.

That comment about Tampa is definitely cherry-picking imo...Hedman, Stamkos, and Vasilevsky are 3 out of Tampa's 5 best players and were drafted either top-5 (Stamkos, Hedman) or very high for a Goalie (top-20 for Vasi). The Islanders are definitely an exception although Barzal is still a top half of the first round draft pick who dropped despite everyone knowing he has tons of talent. Vegas is an example of using your top round picks to acquire more established talent (like trading Suzuki for Patches)...regardless, you usually need top-end talent in the draft to either build around or use to acquire other core players.

 

[sharklife25]

Eichel for Couture, 2nd in 2022, 2nd in 2023 - Do it DW

If the team isn't getting Eichel, DW could always go for quantity over 1 first liner. If it were me (and I was trying to compete for some dumb reason) I'd do a few of the following:

-Sign Tomas Nosek
-Sign Nikita Gusev (Barabanov's old teammate, much better KHL point production)
-Sign Anthony Duclair
-Sign Paul Stastny
-Sign Ryan Dzingel

Try to get 2-3 of these UFAs signed on cheap contracts. At best you have a fun team, at worst you have some tradeable assets at the trade deadline.

Edit: A potential lineup with a few of these cheap signings.
View attachment 445659

I LOVE this plan.... Call DW and make it happen... Having a fourth line that's basically a 3rd with the ability to score would be incredible.

I've been super excited about Duclair and hope SJ could be the place he finds his game.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Eichel for Couture, 2nd in 2022, 2nd in 2023 - Do it DW

If the team isn't getting Eichel, DW could always go for quantity over 1 first liner. If it were me (and I was trying to compete for some dumb reason) I'd do a few of the following:

-Sign Tomas Nosek
-Sign Nikita Gusev (Barabanov's old teammate, much better KHL point production)
-Sign Anthony Duclair
-Sign Paul Stastny
-Sign Ryan Dzingel

Try to get 2-3 of these UFAs signed on cheap contracts. At best you have a fun team, at worst you have some tradeable assets at the trade deadline.

Edit: A potential lineup with a few of these cheap signings.
View attachment 445659

Holy shit lol. Those first two are hilarious and so is the last one. Stastny would've been great in 2016, but none of those players fit on the roster now. They have way too many "projects" as it is now, so no need to add Gusev/Duclair/Dzingel. I will agree though that if they actually commit to tanking, than all of these (except Stastny/Duclair) would be great. Gusev/Dzingel are 3rd liners at their peak, and Nosek is a 13th forward, but all could fetch a middle round pick probably as they have in the past.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

There are many ways to build teams other than blowing it up and starting from scratch which fails far more often than it works.

Vegas' top line were all acquired via trade
NYI's top line... Komarov FA signing, Eberle via trade, only Barzal was drafted (middle of the first)
Tampa's top line... all were draft outside of the first round

Colorado's top line... is the best example of rebuild drafting with their entire top line being the result of drafting in the top ten but they still haven't made it out of the second round and it's been 12 years since they started their initial rebuild.

What chips do the Sharks have to trade that will bring back value? How many big time talents have the Sharks drafted after the first round?

 

[spintops]

4 years from now we will still be begging DW to blow it up and he will still be adding fringe middle 6 players to compete with the current roster.

 

[tiburon12]

4 years from now we will still be begging DW to blow it up and he will still be adding fringe middle 6 players to compete with the current roster.

Well, 4 years from now the Sharks will actually be in a position to blow it up, because now they aren't. They're just stuck in self-created purgatory

 

[magic school bus]

4 years from now we will still be begging DW to blow it up and he will still be adding fringe middle 6 players to compete with the current roster.

He thinks every player's prime is 35 now because he had Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Joe Pavelski.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Well, 4 years from now the Sharks will actually be in a position to blow it up, because now they aren't. They're just stuck in self-created purgatory

The Sharks finished 3rd from last in 2019-2020 and 6th from last this year. They're far closer to dead last than middle of the pack, and not in purgatory by any sense of the word.

 

[Herschel]

That comment about Tampa is definitely cherry-picking imo...Hedman, Stamkos, and Vasilevsky are 3 out of Tampa's 5 best players and were drafted either top-5 (Stamkos, Hedman) or very high for a Goalie (top-20 for Vasi). The Islanders are definitely an exception although Barzal is still a top half of the first round draft pick who dropped despite everyone knowing he has tons of talent. Vegas is an example of using your top round picks to acquire more established talent (like trading Suzuki for Patches)...regardless, you usually need top-end talent in the draft to either build around or use to acquire other core players.

I don't feel like Tampa is cherry-picking especially when you consider that Stamkos played only 1 playoff game when they won the cup.

Look I am not saying that draft picks aren't an important part of building a winning roster just that blowing it up is far from a guarantee. Teams still need a ton of other things to break their way to even create a contending team let alone win the Cup.

As for using top-round picks to acquire more established players... isn't that what we are talking about? Using 1st round draft pick(s) to acquire Eichel?

 

[weastern bias]

4 years from now we will still be begging DW to blow it up and he will still be adding fringe middle 6 players to compete with the current roster.

With how the team is rotting from the core we'll probably still be picking high so long as Doug isn't dumb enough to trade our 1st rounders

The Sharks finished 3rd from last in 2019-2020 and 6th from last this year. They're far closer to dead last than middle of the pack, and not in purgatory by any sense of the word.

This

This team, as constructed, missing our highest paid players for very small segments of the season, finished bottom 10 in the league this year

Our "best" players are aging and disengaged while locked up to long term money, I'd like for us to strip it down and start over but we suck bad enough that we're going to be picking high no matter what we do

I wish we could truly tank and ensure a top-3 selection, but with management deadset against it we're probably just gonna pick between 5 and 10 every year until the contracts start to expire, hopefully a couple of those picks hit

 

[weastern bias]

I don't feel like Tampa is cherry-picking especially when you consider that Stamkos played only 1 playoff game when they won the cup.

Their Conn Smythe trophy winner was a #2 pick

No team has won a cup in the cap era without a top 5 pick on the roster

 

[Hodge]

My only concern with regards to the current roster continuing to accumulate top-10 picks is that a different goalie might be able to come in and push us into playoff bubble territory. But the defense is so awful that it would probably take a Vasilevskiy/Hellebuyck level talent to do that and we're not landing one of those.

 

[Herschel]

My only concern with regards to the current roster continuing to accumulate top-10 picks is that a different goalie might be able to come in and push us into playoff bubble territory. But the defense is so awful that it would probably take a Vasilevskiy/Hellebuyck level talent to do that and we're not landing one of those.

A different goalie combined with playing the Pacific likely already put this team in playoff bubble territory.

I also believe that the major issue with the defense is TEAM defense and starts with having a very young forward group that really hasn't put the two-way game together yet. There is likely to be noticeable improvement next season based on the continued maturity of the young forwards combined with regular training camps and practice sessions.

Now if they don't improve the goaltending those small improvements don't matter in the standing but if they get league average goaltending I just don't see the 2022 draft pick being in the top 10.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Has DW committed to BB as being the starting coach for 2021-22?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Eichel for Couture, 2nd in 2022, 2nd in 2023 - Do it DW

If the team isn't getting Eichel, DW could always go for quantity over 1 first liner. If it were me (and I was trying to compete for some dumb reason) I'd do a few of the following:

-Sign Tomas Nosek
-Sign Nikita Gusev (Barabanov's old teammate, much better KHL point production)
-Sign Anthony Duclair
-Sign Paul Stastny
-Sign Ryan Dzingel

Try to get 2-3 of these UFAs signed on cheap contracts. At best you have a fun team, at worst you have some tradeable assets at the trade deadline.

Edit: A potential lineup with a few of these cheap signings.
View attachment 445659

Man. If DW can get Eichel for just that, they should build a statue for him right now.

Funny though, Couture's biggest selling point right now is his performance in the playoffs. Not sure if that would mean much to the Sabres.

The bolded is one of the biggest issues I have with DW. He never does that. I look at teams (eg: NYR) who do things like this on a yearly basis. Good way to restock the system.