Ray Martyniuk
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- Mar 13, 2019
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Good for Francis! Why should he feel sorry for them they didn't give a rats about him and Seattle Kraken trading prospective Expansion players left,right and centre
GDT: 2021 Kraken Entry Draft
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Ray Martyniuk
Registered User
- Mar 13, 2019
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I think with some of the picks Seattle made today it was with a eye for Palm Springs next season
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Well .. yeah .. I was just comparing him to Beniers who has a Nov 2002 B'day. But yeah, he is older than someone like Janicke who has a June 2002 B'day.
The Marquis
Moderator
Until a couple days ago, Seattle had no assets to make moves. Since Seattle had assets, most teams did nothing, just like Seattle. This team hasn't been around for 30 years.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
And what exactly has been holding Francis back to trade for those picks in 2022 or 2023?
You can do that now and him not doing anything at all is not a good sign IMO.
Vegas flipped their extras immmediatly for picks up until three years after their expansion draft.
I'm actually curious about the second point as well.
First there was all that talk about how Francis had crazy asking prices.
And as soon as the roser freeze hit those reporters started talking about hardly any activity(calls) going on and we end up with an expansion draft of just 30 picks(with a couple of headscratchers) and nothing else.
I'm on board with not taking any of those big name/huge contracts but I'm still not sure what the hold up is with those extra players we can't hold on to anyways.
We've got way too many NHL ready players(especially on defense) and need to trade a couple of them.
So how we're already four days out from the expansion draft and still have only traded one of them, with Francis talking about not being in a rush because he likes the players, is just bewildering to me.
You select those players with a clear plan in mind of which ones are for your team and which ones aren't and the ones you don't draft for yourself need to be flipped ASAP to get as much value as possible. Even if you don't like the 2021 draft, you just target picks in the following years.
I think a lot of it comes down to extremely different environments. A lot of people were wanting Francis to draft certain players to flip for picks, but those players had 2+ million cap hits, and as we have seen so far, to move those kinds of players, you either have to take some cap back, or pay draft picks to move them.
Neither was part of Seattle's plan.
I have read a lot of comments on this board about 'Vegas got this... Vegas made all these moves". But Vegas came in while the cap wise rising. Now that we are looking at minimum three years and probably 4 to 5 of flat cap, it really is catching up to the available space.
Vegas was easily able to move a spare defenseman like Schlemko with a 2.5 million cap hit without a problem. Francis would have to give up a 2nd to dump a contract like that in today's environment. I believe that was the driving factor on some of the head-scratcher picks that he made. If there is no one you really like, Take a low cost guy you can waive to the minors or not re-sign (My draft board had 3 or 4 of those guys, Sorensen in San Jose(UFA), Cameron Johnson in Columbus, etc.)
With that in mind, the idea is probably to keep a few extra guys that have some value, let them compete for spots in camp, and try to trade or waive whomever is the worst fit after you've had some time to evaluate them as a team, with the belief the return was probably going to be next to worthless anyhow.
The point is he did nothing.. would Kraken fans have done the Ghost plus a 2nd and 7th with philly?
I would have! And if I didn’t want Ghost on my team I would have traded him for another 2nd round pick and held 1.5-2 mil of his cap space for 2 years. Don’t care if those picks are for 2021 or 2022.
or even better take ghost and voracek. Have philly add their 1st, 2nd, and 7th this year and give them one of your defenseman.. and again if you don’t want to keep Ghost or even Voracek then hold a little salary and add picks..
I also would prefer ghost for 2 more years over Oleksiak at 4.6 for 4 years.
I would have! And if I didn’t want Ghost on my team I would have traded him for another 2nd round pick and held 1.5-2 mil of his cap space for 2 years. Don’t care if those picks are for 2021 or 2022.
or even better take ghost and voracek. Have philly add their 1st, 2nd, and 7th this year and give them one of your defenseman.. and again if you don’t want to keep Ghost or even Voracek then hold a little salary and add picks..
I also would prefer ghost for 2 more years over Oleksiak at 4.6 for 4 years.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
@Irie
So what you're saying is that Francis would have to add picks in order to trade a guy like Soucy?
I think the biggest problem was Francis just picking 30 guys and not identifying which ones weren't for Seattle and therefore working out deals them before the expansion draft to flip them immediatly.
Because of that I was curious about your second point of GM's being unhappy with Francis and just not dealing with him. At least for now.
@Jdodd
Even those picks would've not been interesting enough for me to take on a contract like Voracek's.
The Ghost deal would also not make sense given all the extra NHL ready defenders we have.
Overall I think those deals are still going to be available with teams trying to create more cap space for certain UFA's or trade targets.
I just hope Francis might be more willing to do something like this cause I doubt Hamilton or Landeskog are going to sign here and we should still have enough cap space after signing a couple UFA's.
So what you're saying is that Francis would have to add picks in order to trade a guy like Soucy?
I think the biggest problem was Francis just picking 30 guys and not identifying which ones weren't for Seattle and therefore working out deals them before the expansion draft to flip them immediatly.
Because of that I was curious about your second point of GM's being unhappy with Francis and just not dealing with him. At least for now.
@Jdodd
Even those picks would've not been interesting enough for me to take on a contract like Voracek's.
The Ghost deal would also not make sense given all the extra NHL ready defenders we have.
Overall I think those deals are still going to be available with teams trying to create more cap space for certain UFA's or trade targets.
I just hope Francis might be more willing to do something like this cause I doubt Hamilton or Landeskog are going to sign here and we should still have enough cap space after signing a couple UFA's.
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The ghost and Voracek was an example, and I am good with your opinion. My main point, like you stated. The Kraken did nothing.
I guess the main point is the Coyotes and Blue Jackets played the game. They helped philly and Vancouver. Those are tow less teams that are now good for a cap/team standopoint.
Yes, you still have others, mainly The Lightning. So there is still time, but wait too long then you have another team like the coyotes that take those deals and the kraken are left where they are with a team that lacks forwards and has a surplus of defenseman and a lot less picks/futures.
I guess the main point is the Coyotes and Blue Jackets played the game. They helped philly and Vancouver. Those are tow less teams that are now good for a cap/team standopoint.
Yes, you still have others, mainly The Lightning. So there is still time, but wait too long then you have another team like the coyotes that take those deals and the kraken are left where they are with a team that lacks forwards and has a surplus of defenseman and a lot less picks/futures.
ghost is over rated and not that great really... Our defense is fine... I do not want bad contract just for the sake of having bad contracts...
The cap situation is just going to get worse over the next few years as the cap stays the same and GMs remain dumb. They are still signing players to dumb contracts and this UFA season isn't going to be a bunch of cheap contracts either. Either they'll be desperate and dump good assets for cheap to us, or they will not have space to sign any of the new UFAs and we'll get them for cheaper. I'm fine with patience from Francis here. Would have been really dumb to clobber a bunch of cap space for some second rounders or whatever. It is a buyers market and will continue to get more so.
No, Saucy is a legitimate top 4 option. He has value, but not sure he would return a first.
I don't think it makes sense to trade a young guy that can play either side in the top 4 just for a second. Those are the guys he is keeping.
Vegas took a lot of fringe guys and flipped them. I am saying the market Vegas had to do that was non-existent for Francis.
I am pretty sure cholowski has close to zero value and wouldn't be surprised if they don't sign him if he won't sign a two-way deal. I also think MacDermid may slot in as an extra forward, giving them 8 D to evaluate from.
And for the record, I believe they passed on Clague because they felt he had little trade value in this market but would still get claimed if they demoted him.
Not sure it was the right move, but I think there is some logic behind it.
Besides, I expect him to be available during training camp when LA cuts their roster(that is unless Buffalo grabs him)
Not sure it was the right move, but I think there is some logic behind it.
Besides, I expect him to be available during training camp when LA cuts their roster(that is unless Buffalo grabs him)
Gniwder
Registered User
Detroit needs a LHD because Seattle took Cholo. Low end player in case Dekeyser's back issues flare up. If Detroit doesn't pick up a LHD better than Cholo, he'll get claimed on waivers. I doubt he has any trade value since he has to clear waivers. A team would have to be pretty desperate to put him on a roster.
He can run the PP at the AHL level, so he does have some usefulness on a 2 way contract. He may wind up being one of those AHL journeyman vets that gets some NHL time now and then. He doesn't think fast enough for the NHL, and absolutely no physicality. Will barely even touch an opponent.
Thanks for the scouting report. It mostly confirms what I believed, that Seattle probably doesn't qualify him.
Teams like Detroit, San Jose, Chicago, Columbus etc had such terrible options, that it was in Francis' best interests to get guys that they would not have to pay anything and can either sign for their AHL requirements or let walk. None of those teams exposed a player that was tradable. By not taking anyone with contractual obligations, the team is much better off having options and extra cap to work with.
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Gniwder
Registered User
Yes, I believe that's why he skipped over Stecher and Namestnikov. His cheapest options were Cholo or Svechnikov, both RFA that will get 2 way contracts. Cholo needs to understand that hockey is a contact sport, and you can't play D in the NHL unless you can separate the puck from a player.
So basically, the expansion draft has Detroit looking for anyone better than Cholo, either in free agency or trade. Seattle may be able to get a draft pick. Detroit re-signed UFA Marc Staal today, so they only need one backup level LHD.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
The problem I see there is that we just have to many NHL ready guys and all of them need to clear waivers.
So we might lose them for nothing.
But hey, the talk about Schwartz sounds promising and given the contracts handed out I'm pretty sure a couple of teams will come calling to dump a contract out of desperation.
CapsJunkie
Beaglchuck scores
I don't think they will lose any players that they are hoping to keep, at least not any that currently have trade value.
They drafted 30 guys. They can only keep 23.
Pitlick is already gone.
Daccord will be in the Charlotte.
Forwards Twarynski(RFA), True(RFA), Quenneville(UFA) Won't be signed, or possibly signed for Charlotte.
Probably the same scenario for defensemen Cholowski(RFA), Bayreuther(UFA), and C. Fleury(RFA)
MacDermid moves to forward.
That leaves them with 22 players, (2 goalies, 8 D, and 12 forwards.)
If they sign any more D, they may end up trading or waiving one, but I expect they will pick up 2 or 3 more forwards, and they might end up waiving or losing someone like Lind, but remember, Gourde is also out to start the season, so they will have a little time.
Soul Rebel
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- Aug 19, 2019
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I don't foresee us letting go of any Dmen, especially with Giordano not being a long-term piece of our puzzle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him offloaded at the deadline even, which would then allow the six young/core blueliners to play. I think Larsson, Oleksiak, Dunn, Soucy, Fleury and Lauzon are a solid six to roll with for the next few years. Lots of promise, upside and youth there...why unload it and create a need.
BeniersIsKraken
2022-23 Adopted Kraken: Matty Beniers
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After Beniers, Winterton is the prospect that intrigues me the most. I've read some scouting reports claiming that he improved his skating and acceleration this past year (not to elite levels, but to at least to an average to above average level). His skating seemed to be the biggest knock, so if that's improved, there's a big chance he could much better value than expected for a third round pick. Obviously with the majority of major junior picks this season, the scouting was incomplete since there were no games to assess these improvements.
Soul Rebel
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I too liked their entry picks quite a bit, despite the criticism. Beniers was a no-brainer so he's the one I'm most psyched about. I do like the Winterton and Janicke selections. I also think the Evans selection will be better than some think and the Russian goalie is a lowkey move that I think could resemble Ronnie's Nedelijkovic selection.
We won't see these kids for several years
BeniersIsKraken
2022-23 Adopted Kraken: Matty Beniers
- Jul 24, 2021
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Ya it's incredibly hard to judge a draft and I'm never a fan of evaluating immediately, especially in years when a pandemic completely changed the evaluation process. A prospect like Evans who can fill a very specific role can really thrive with a particular team and it's somewhat misguided to judge a pick purely on their overall ability as a player (if that makes sense).
I just like that there's a clear identity that the FO is building and it's the best way to build a winning culture imo. Every pick from the expansion and entry draft have more or less made sense to me.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Locking this thread up. Please continue discussions in either the offseason thread or individual prospect threads.
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