Red Sox/MLB 2021 Hot Stove II - RIP: Hank Aaron

[Fenway]

​

Click to read more...

 

[McGarnagle]

There was just an odd thread posted referencing the Boston Braves. Clearly it was nonsense but it had me musing anyway, but by the time I finished posting it had been closed, so I'll copy-paste the thoughts here:

Strange thread, but admittedly as a baseball fan and someone with too many history degrees, the Boston Braves always fascinated me as a subject. Given how much the Red Sox dominate the media landscape around here, the fact that there was another competitive major league franchise in town is astounding to consider. And their stadium still stands as Nickerson Field at BU (though renovated several times and not bearing much resemblance to the major league park). Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain are never thought of as Boston sports legends, even though a large chunk of their success was in Boston and they brought a pennant to town in 1948. Babe Ruth ended his career there in '35. And while the narrative around integration is that the Red Sox didn't integrate until 1959 (which is true) and it's a black mark on the city's legacy, across town the Braves had Sam Jethroe playing for them as early as 1950. Lots of history there that we always seem to pretend didn't exist. Yawkey and his contacts at the Globe must've carefully crafted the narrative to turn the city into a Red Sox town so decisively.

Perhaps the biggest legacy is this: Bob Kraft claimed he was a big Braves fan growing up and that he was heartbroken over their move, and that was his major motivation in saving the Patriots from being moved to St. Louis by Orthwein in 1993.

 

[Alicat]

There was just an odd thread posted referencing the Boston Braves. Clearly it was nonsense but it had me musing anyway, but by the time I finished posting it had been closed, so I'll copy-paste the thoughts here:

Strange thread, but admittedly as a baseball fan and someone with too many history degrees, the Boston Braves always fascinated me as a subject. Given how much the Red Sox dominate the media landscape around here, the fact that there was another competitive major league franchise in town is astounding to consider. And their stadium still stands as Nickerson Field at BU (though renovated several times and not bearing much resemblance to the major league park). Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain are never thought of as Boston sports legends, even though a large chunk of their success was in Boston and they brought a pennant to town in 1948. Babe Ruth ended his career there in '35. And while the narrative around integration is that the Red Sox didn't integrate until 1959 (which is true) and it's a black mark on the city's legacy, across town the Braves had Sam Jethroe playing for them as early as 1950. Lots of history there that we always seem to pretend didn't exist. Yawkey and his contacts at the Globe must've carefully crafted the narrative to turn the city into a Red Sox town so decisively.

Perhaps the biggest legacy is this: Bob Kraft claimed he was a big Braves fan growing up and that he was heartbroken over their move, and that was his major motivation in saving the Patriots from being moved to St. Louis by Orthwein in 1993.

Drives me crazy that the Boston Braves don't get nearly as much recognition in this town. I grew up hearing stories about the team and how devastated people were when they left Boston. I wish I had learned more but my great grandfather was long gone by the time I was born and he was the one who had all the stories due to his ties with the organization.

Because of his ties my great grandmother learned how to score a ball game and she taught my dad who taught me. Pretty cool skill to pass down

 

[Fenway]

Drives me crazy that the Boston Braves don't get nearly as much recognition in this town. I grew up hearing stories about the team and how devastated people were when they left Boston. I wish I had learned more but my great grandfather was long gone by the time I was born and he was the one who had all the stories due to his ties with the organization.

Because of his ties my great grandmother learned how to score a ball game and she taught my dad who taught me. Pretty cool skill to pass down

My mother worshiped the Braves and only went to Fenway to see Milwaukee play in the Jimmy Fund game.

Braves Field might be the most forgotten MLB park.

In 1949 they installed the first fully electric scoreboard in MLB ( the board was later sold to Kansas City )



The Braves following was mainly the Irish of Allston, Brighton, Newton Corner, Silver Lake, Watertown, Cambridge, Somerville, South Boston, Dorchester, and Quincy. Even though their games were on radio throughout New England the Red Sox developed the bigger following outside the city - Ted Williams was a major reason.

They won the 1948 NL Pennant and attendance was strong and then it collapsed.

Sadly a major reason for the Braves attendance collapsing was the team integrated in 1950 with Sam Jethroe who won the NL Rookie of the Year. There is no question that integration caused many fans to stop going to games and that is one reason Tom Yawkey was the last owner to do so as he feared the same thing would happen to him.

May 11, 1946: Braves Field hosts its first game under the lights – Society for American Baseball Research

The ballpark itself had issues, winds blowing off the Charles meant very few home runs and those same winds would blow in locomotive smoke from the huge trainyard beyond the outfield.

I had a chance to ask Vin Scully about Braves Field as he called games there from 1950-52 and he said the place was a tomb. Every other city we went to was excited when Brooklyn came to town but not Boston. More importantly every other city would see Black fans coming out to see Jackie Robinson but not here.

In 1950 the Braves and Red Sox televised EVERY home game but it did not hurt the Red Sox attandance.

 

[McGarnagle]

Drives me crazy that the Boston Braves don't get nearly as much recognition in this town. I grew up hearing stories about the team and how devastated people were when they left Boston. I wish I had learned more but my great grandfather was long gone by the time I was born and he was the one who had all the stories due to his ties with the organization.

Because of his ties my great grandmother learned how to score a ball game and she taught my dad who taught me. Pretty cool skill to pass down

I want to learn more about the baseball landscape in Boston prior to 1952.

Like what determined what team one was a fan of. The parks were barely a mile apart, was it mainly a geographic distinction with different neighborhoods having allegiances? Was it a socioeconomic class thing, with the older established National League team being preferred by the old Boston Brahmin families and the AL club by the working class, etc? Did people like both or gravitate to who was more successful at the time? I'm really curious.

Edit: @Fenway did address some of that in the post above

Makes me wonder if the franchise could've been salvaged if things went differently. Would Boston have been able to sustain a 2nd team like NY and Chicago, or was the city just too small for multiple teams - St. Louis and Philadelphia both had two teams at the same time, and in the years to come they both lost one of them. The Braves were the first franchise to move and kicked off that 1950s obsession with relocation - which is probably less of an indictment against their ability to do business in their old markets and more of the fact that commercial air travel had become reliable enough that greener pastures like Milwaukee and Kansas City, not to mention California, were money making opportunities.

 

[08SeaBass08]

The Braves following was mainly the Irish of Allston, Brighton, Newton Corner, Silver Lake, Watertown, Cambridge, Somerville, South Boston, Dorchester, and Quincy. Even though their games were on radio throughout New England the Red Sox developed the bigger following outside the city - Ted Williams was a major reason.

I LOVE that you referred to Nonantum as Silver Lake.

 

[sarge88]

My mother worshiped the Braves and only went to Fenway to see Milwaukee play in the Jimmy Fund game.

Braves Field might be the most forgotten MLB park.

In 1949 they installed the first fully electric scoreboard in MLB ( the board was later sold to Kansas City )



The Braves following was mainly the Irish of Allston, Brighton, Newton Corner, Silver Lake, Watertown, Cambridge, Somerville, South Boston, Dorchester, and Quincy. Even though their games were on radio throughout New England the Red Sox developed the bigger following outside the city - Ted Williams was a major reason.

They won the 1948 NL Pennant and attendance was strong and then it collapsed.

View attachment 377801
View attachment 377802

Sadly a major reason for the Braves attendance collapsing was the team integrated in 1950 with Sam Jethroe who won the NL Rookie of the Year. There is no question that integration caused many fans to stop going to games and that is one reason Tom Yawkey was the last owner to do so as he feared the same thing would happen to him.

May 11, 1946: Braves Field hosts its first game under the lights – Society for American Baseball Research

The ballpark itself had issues, winds blowing off the Charles meant very few home runs and those same winds would blow in locomotive smoke from the huge trainyard beyond the outfield.

I had a chance to ask Vin Scully about Braves Field as he called games there from 1950-52 and he said the place was a tomb. Every other city we went to was excited when Brooklyn came to town but not Boston. More importantly every other city would see Black fans coming out to see Jackie Robinson but not here.

In 1950 the Braves and Red Sox televised EVERY home game but it did not hurt the Red Sox attandance.

View attachment 377805

Amazing to see any picture of Boston with so much blue sky in the background and not a skyscraper anywhere.

 

[Fenway]

I want to learn more about the baseball landscape in Boston prior to 1952.

Like what determined what team one was a fan of. The parks were barely a mile apart, was it mainly a geographic distinction with different neighborhoods having allegiances? Was it a socioeconomic class thing, with the older established National League team being preferred by the old Boston Brahmin families and the AL club by the working class, etc? Did people like both or gravitate to who was more successful at the time? I'm really curious.

Edit: @Fenway did address some of that in the post above

Makes me wonder if the franchise could've been salvaged if things went differently. Would Boston have been able to sustain a 2nd team like NY and Chicago, or was the city just too small for multiple teams - St. Louis and Philadelphia both had two teams at the same time, and in the years to come they both lost one of them. The Braves were the first franchise to move and kicked off that 1950s obsession with relocation - which is probably less of an indictment against their ability to do business in their old markets and more of the fact that commercial air travel had become reliable enough that greener pastures like Milwaukee and Kansas City, not to mention California, were money making opportunities.

As close as Braves Field was to Fenway, there were 2 parks in New York that were even closer

 

[Fenway]

The Braves Field scoreboard in Kansas City

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

I LOVE that you referred to Nonantum as Silver Lake.

I live in the Lake and I love every part of it. Best part of Newton in my opinion.

 

[Fenway]

Braves Field night game in 1949

 

[08SeaBass08]

I live in the Lake and I love every part of it. Best part of Newton in my opinion.

Mush! I lived on Walnut St. in Newtonville, at the intersection of Watertown St. and Lowell Ave. and went to school with all the kids from the Lake. Matt LeBlanc was a classmate of mine at Day and North. St. Mary's Carnival every summer. Giant Santa next to Dunkie's every winter.

 

[Fenway]

Mush! I lived on Walnut St. in Newtonville, at the intersection of Watertown St. and Lowell Ave. and went to school with all the kids from the Lake. Matt LeBlanc was a classmate of mine at Day and North. St. Mary's Carnival every summer. Giant Santa next to Dunkie's every winter.

 

[08SeaBass08]

1000 X this /\/\/\

 

[Fenway]

 

[Centrum Hockey]

No news on the final setup of milb yet but Worcester's Ballpark is progressing
A videoboard at Polar Park will measure 40 feet by 70 feet as WooSox unveil scoreboards

 

[Fenway]

No news on the final setup of milb yet but Worcester's Ballpark is progressing
A videoboard at Polar Park will measure 40 feet by 70 feet as WooSox unveil scoreboards

ANC Provides Worcester Red Sox with LED Videoboards at Polar Park | ANC

 

[McGarnagle]

Another Braves/Red Sox thing I never realized is that after looking at schedule comparisons, it seems there was a gentleman's agreement between them to never play home games on the same day. It also seems that in the era of travel by train, the format was pretty much 3 week homestands followed by 3 week road trips. There'd be a Major League game in Boston nearly every day of the season, though in alternating 3-week stretches. Fascinating stuff.

Edit: Since I couldn't help myself, it looks like the Giants and Yankees had the same agreement (as their parks were right across the river from each other as seen earlier in the thread). The Dodgers were not subject to this though, generally doing their own thing. Brooklyn was basically considered its own separate market it seems. Cubs and White Sox also had the same agreement. The other multi-team cities of the 40s/50s (Philadelphia & St. Louis) had teams that shared stadiums so obviously there was no overlap.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I want to learn more about the baseball landscape in Boston prior to 1952.

Like what determined what team one was a fan of. The parks were barely a mile apart, was it mainly a geographic distinction with different neighborhoods having allegiances? Was it a socioeconomic class thing, with the older established National League team being preferred by the old Boston Brahmin families and the AL club by the working class, etc? Did people like both or gravitate to who was more successful at the time? I'm really curious.

Edit: @Fenway did address some of that in the post above

Makes me wonder if the franchise could've been salvaged if things went differently. Would Boston have been able to sustain a 2nd team like NY and Chicago, or was the city just too small for multiple teams - St. Louis and Philadelphia both had two teams at the same time, and in the years to come they both lost one of them. The Braves were the first franchise to move and kicked off that 1950s obsession with relocation - which is probably less of an indictment against their ability to do business in their old markets and more of the fact that commercial air travel had become reliable enough that greener pastures like Milwaukee and Kansas City, not to mention California, were money making opportunities.

There where probably a few preventable relocations in the 1950-1972 timeframe the first incarnation of the Senators and the Kansas City A's come to mind.

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

Mush! I lived on Walnut St. in Newtonville, at the intersection of Watertown St. and Lowell Ave. and went to school with all the kids from the Lake. Matt LeBlanc was a classmate of mine at Day and North. St. Mary's Carnival every summer. Giant Santa next to Dunkie's every winter.

I’m literally a 20 second walk from Magni Park and the Santa. Love the tree lighting every year. Sad they won’t be having everyone out for the lighting with Santa coming down Watertown St for all the kids. They got most of it up now. This section keeps all their old traditions as you know and it what makes it so special. Proud to be a Mush from the Lake!!!

 

[McGarnagle]

There where probably a few preventable relocations' in the 1950-1972 timeframe the first incarnation of the Senators and the Kansas City A's come to mind.

Kansas City was a big mess and eventually had a big ripple effect on further movement. Johnson never wanted to keep them there for the long term, in his mind KC was a temporary home until they could get approval to start west coast baseball and get into LA. But the Dodgers beat him to the punch since they were able to convince the Giants to go west with them. Then when he died and Finley took over the team, he shopped it to every city in the country to the consternation of the American League. Kansas City approved bonds to built a new stadium for them right before he moved to Oakland and the league tried to pacify Missouri by promising them a spot in their next expansion class of 1971 along with Seattle. But Senator Symington pulled out the big guns and threatened to revoke MLB's antitrust exceptions unless they moved it up to 1969.

The Royals made out alright on the deal, but the other expansion team, the Seattle Pilots, got screwed over - the 1971 start date gave them 3 years to do the necessary renovations on the existing minor league stadium and to market the coming team. Pushing it up 2 years caught them completely unprepared to host major league ball, the stadium was a disaster, they were unable to draw, and were bankrupt by the end of the year. In spring training of the 1970 season, Bud Selig swooped in to buy out the owners and move them to his hometown of Milwaukee, which recently lost the Braves to Atlanta. The reason the Brewers wear blue and yellow as their primary colors is because they had to take the Pilots' uniforms and strip the Seattle wordmark off the front and sew on a Milwaukee one. Supposedly if they had time to design it Selig wanted them to wear red and navy like the Braves. But they legit moved the team halfway through spring training that year, so there was no time to change it.

 

[BostonBob]

Interesting.....

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Nice, relatively cheap outfield option for the Sox, which has a high waiver claim priority.

 

[McGarnagle]

Nice, relatively cheap outfield option for the Sox, which has a high waiver claim priority.

Rosario is a good player. Basically what Benintendi would be if he didn't hit that injury-related development wall. Puerto Rican too, so he'd probably connect with Alex Cora. I'll be disappointed if they don't claim him.

Though doing that, presuming Benintendi returns to a regular starting role, would give us 3 left-handed OF. We'd need to get another Kevin Pillar type to come off the bench, or maybe teach Chavis or Dalbec how to play Left.

Interesting.....

As for Kluber, hell, nothing to lose in giving him a cheap show-me deal. I'm for it.

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

Interesting.....

Kluber lives in Winchester year round. I thinks he’s a great buy low candidate. If he’s healthy(a big if) he is a front of the rotation starter.