Speculation: 2021-22 Sharks Roster Discussion Part XII

[WTFetus]

Continue.

Speculation: - 2021-22 Sharks Roster Discussion Part XI

They intended to compete for the playoffs so it's too big a risk to go in with his salary slot not producing in the top 6. They have to jettison him somehow without retaining more than 1mil so they can use that money somewhere else to improve scoring. At this point he doesn't generate scoring...

hfboards.mandatory.com

Click to read more...

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

Ah, yes, 1995, "The Year of the Finn" That was Chuck Grillo, although Dean Lombardi would have at least allowed Grillo to draft as he wished. The results were so bad that Lombardi carried out his coup that removed Grillo from the organization. Don't worry, all will be well once Teemu Riihijarvi comes over from Finland.

Grillo would have taken Viktor Kozlov #2 in 1993, but the Sharks traded down to #6 and still got him, picking up Sergei Makarov in the trade with Hartford. Kozlov was one of the great what-ifs of Sharks history. My recollection is that he broke his ankle in his first preseason which cost him his speed. I think I saw him in a preseason game before that, and it was impressive to see this huge dude motor like he could then. If the Sharks had been a decent organization then, they might have been able to keep Igor Larionov who could have been and effective mentor for Kozlov.

 

[Alaskanice]

Ah, yes, 1995, "The Year of the Finn" That was Chuck Grillo, although Dean Lombardi would have at least allowed Grillo to draft as he wished. The results were so bad that Lombardi carried out his coup that removed Grillo from the organization. Don't worry, all will be well once Teemu Riihijarvi comes over from Finland.

Grillo would have taken Viktor Kozlov #2 in 1993, but the Sharks traded down to #6 and still got him, picking up Sergei Makarov in the trade with Hartford. Kozlov was one of the great what-ifs of Sharks history. My recollection is that he broke his ankle in his first preseason which cost him his speed. I think I saw him in a preseason game before that, and it was impressive to see this huge dude motor like he could then. If the Sharks had been a decent organization then, they might have been able to keep Igor Larionov who could have been and effective mentor for Kozlov.

Good recollection. I was still quite green to the draft side of things and thought Riihijarvi was going to be the second coming. How wrong I was!!!

 

[TheBeard]

Ah, yes, 1995, "The Year of the Finn" That was Chuck Grillo, although Dean Lombardi would have at least allowed Grillo to draft as he wished. The results were so bad that Lombardi carried out his coup that removed Grillo from the organization. Don't worry, all will be well once Teemu Riihijarvi comes over from Finland.

Grillo would have taken Viktor Kozlov #2 in 1993, but the Sharks traded down to #6 and still got him, picking up Sergei Makarov in the trade with Hartford. Kozlov was one of the great what-ifs of Sharks history. My recollection is that he broke his ankle in his first preseason which cost him his speed. I think I saw him in a preseason game before that, and it was impressive to see this huge dude motor like he could then. If the Sharks had been a decent organization then, they might have been able to keep Igor Larionov who could have been and effective mentor for Kozlov.

This one hurt because I was really a fan of Karriya but knew it made no sense to have two franchise forwards that were 5’3 125 lbs each.

 

[one2gamble]

This one hurt because I was really a fan of Karriya but knew it made no sense to have two franchise forwards that were 5’3 125 lbs each.

better tell dw jr that

 

[Patty Ice]

Good recollection. I was still quite green to the draft side of things and thought Riihijarvi was going to be the second coming. How wrong I was!!!

The famous quote "you can't teach size" came from that pick.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Ah, yes, 1995, "The Year of the Finn" That was Chuck Grillo, although Dean Lombardi would have at least allowed Grillo to draft as he wished. The results were so bad that Lombardi carried out his coup that removed Grillo from the organization. Don't worry, all will be well once Teemu Riihijarvi comes over from Finland.

Grillo would have taken Viktor Kozlov #2 in 1993, but the Sharks traded down to #6 and still got him, picking up Sergei Makarov in the trade with Hartford. Kozlov was one of the great what-ifs of Sharks history. My recollection is that he broke his ankle in his first preseason which cost him his speed. I think I saw him in a preseason game before that, and it was impressive to see this huge dude motor like he could then. If the Sharks had been a decent organization then, they might have been able to keep Igor Larionov who could have been and effective mentor for Kozlov.

Apparently he broke his ankle in Russia prior to coming over so it's unlikely you saw him play prior to the injury.

 

[Alaskanice]

The famous quote "you can't teach size" came from that pick.

True. Back then, in those years, that mattered more than anything else.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

This one hurt because I was really a fan of Karriya but knew it made no sense to have two franchise forwards that were 5’3 125 lbs each.

They could have drafted Pronger over Kozlov. Talk about a set back. A ton of bad drafts in the beginning where they tried to out smart everyone that would have been complete failures if not for a handful of lucky picks.

 

[Alaskanice]

They could have drafted Pronger over Kozlov. Talk about a set back. A ton of bad drafts in the beginning where they tried to out smart everyone that would have been complete failures if not for a handful of lucky picks.

Slightly ahead of their time in getting European and Russian players. Hollow victory.

 

[spintops]

 

[TheBeard]

They could have drafted Pronger over Kozlov. Talk about a set back. A ton of bad drafts in the beginning where they tried to out smart everyone that would have been complete failures if not for a handful of lucky picks.

I knew that wasn’t gonna happen since they drafted Rathje at 3 the year before and they weren’t exactly a scoring juggernaut

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I knew that wasn’t gonna happen since they drafted Rathje at 3 the year before and they weren’t exactly a scoring juggernaut

Rathje was hardly appreciated when he was here. I believe guys like Niedermayer and Pronger being drafted around the same time as him had a lot to do with that. People wanted Rathje to play as physically as Pronger but that just wasn’t his style, and they wanted him to score a lot but that wasn’t either.

 

[TheBeard]

Rathje was hardly appreciated when he was here. I believe guys like Niedermayer and Pronger being drafted around the same time as him had a lot to do with that. People wanted Rathje to play as physically as Pronger but that just wasn’t his style, and they wanted him to score a lot but that wasn’t either.

I liked him, he was a steady if unspectacular D-man. But he didn't live up to the billing. Fortunately that same draft they found the greatest steal in NHL history later on in that first round.

 

[hohosaregood]

Rathje was hardly appreciated when he was here. I believe guys like Niedermayer and Pronger being drafted around the same time as him had a lot to do with that. People wanted Rathje to play as physically as Pronger but that just wasn’t his style, and they wanted him to score a lot but that wasn’t either.

I was reading a tweet from Jack Han about Tage Thompson the other day about a similar thing. Stylistically, he's a skill forward but since he's big they tried to develop and treat him like a PWF and it didn't work for him. Just need to ignore your size biases and recognize what the player is and work off of that.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I knew that wasn’t gonna happen since they drafted Rathje at 3 the year before and they weren’t exactly a scoring juggernaut

Yeah they tried to prop up Kozlov as the Russian Mario Lemieux.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Rathje was hardly appreciated when he was here. I believe guys like Niedermayer and Pronger being drafted around the same time as him had a lot to do with that. People wanted Rathje to play as physically as Pronger but that just wasn’t his style, and they wanted him to score a lot but that wasn’t either.

Loved Rathje. It took Sutter to really believe in his abilities and get the most out of him and turn him into a great shutdown D-man. Great enough that at one point in his prime, Jagr said he was the hardest defenseman in the league to play against because of his size and skating ability.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah they tried to prop up Kozlov as the Russian Mario Lemieux.

In all fairness, the dude was a beast in the WJC the previous year.

 

[Barrie22]

I was reading a tweet from Jack Han about Tage Thompson the other day about a similar thing. Stylistically, he's a skill forward but since he's big they tried to develop and treat him like a PWF and it didn't work for him. Just need to ignore your size biases and recognize what the player is and work off of that.

Same can be said for thornton in boston, fans and media alike hoped he was going to be the next neely, but that was not his game either. They then never tried to fit him in as one of the best playmakers in the game, but kept complaining about his lack of goals even in 100 point seasons.

 

[ChompChomp]

Ah, yes, 1995, "The Year of the Finn" That was Chuck Grillo, although Dean Lombardi would have at least allowed Grillo to draft as he wished. The results were so bad that Lombardi carried out his coup that removed Grillo from the organization. Don't worry, all will be well once Teemu Riihijarvi comes over from Finland.

Grillo would have taken Viktor Kozlov #2 in 1993, but the Sharks traded down to #6 and still got him, picking up Sergei Makarov in the trade with Hartford. Kozlov was one of the great what-ifs of Sharks history. My recollection is that he broke his ankle in his first preseason which cost him his speed. I think I saw him in a preseason game before that, and it was impressive to see this huge dude motor like he could then. If the Sharks had been a decent organization then, they might have been able to keep Igor Larionov who could have been and effective mentor for Kozlov.

The funny thing about this, is that people forget the dumber move that is related to Kozlov. Kozlov was traded to Florida for a 1st round pick that had a good chance of being 1OA. Then the Sharks moronically did that Marchment trade with Tampa that allow them to swap 1st round picks if that Florida first was going to be 1OA. It played out that way and Tampa got Vinny Lecavalier.

Phil Esposito engineered that trade for Tampa and said on Sirius XM that he orchestrated it to get Vinny and the Sharks were dumb suckers (my words, but he said he fleeced them). I want to say it was a dumb Deano move, but in any event, you can argue that trade was worse than drafting Koslov. Arguably worst move in franchise history.

 

[Alaskanice]

The funny thing about this, is that people forget the dumber move that is related to Kozlov. Kozlov was traded to Florida for a 1st round pick that had a good chance of being 1OA. Then the Sharks moronically did that Marchment trade with Tampa that allow them to swap 1st round picks if that Florida first was going to be 1OA. It played out that way and Tampa got Vinny Lecavalier.

Phil Esposito engineered that trade for Tampa and said on Sirius XM that he orchestrated it to get Vinny and the Sharks were dumb suckers (my words, but he said he fleeced them). I want to say it was a dumb Deano move, but in any event, you can argue that trade was worse than drafting Koslov. Arguably worst move in franchise history.

Could be.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I was reading a tweet from Jack Han about Tage Thompson the other day about a similar thing. Stylistically, he's a skill forward but since he's big they tried to develop and treat him like a PWF and it didn't work for him. Just need to ignore your size biases and recognize what the player is and work off of that.

It seems easier for a lot of scouts and front offices to just generalize or build their own expectations for a player rather than get to know the player and their individual personality. The same logic is why it was so hard for guys like Martin St. Louis to finally get a legitimate shot.

Loved Rathje. It took Sutter to really believe in his abilities and get the most out of him and turn him into a great shutdown D-man. Great enough that at one point in his prime, Jagr said he was the hardest defenseman in the league to play against because of his size and skating ability.

He and Rags were a great duo for a couple of years. Sutter was able to do that with a few guys. It’s too bad ownership had an internal cap back then and we didn’t have a guy like Hasso running the show.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

The funny thing about this, is that people forget the dumber move that is related to Kozlov. Kozlov was traded to Florida for a 1st round pick that had a good chance of being 1OA. Then the Sharks moronically did that Marchment trade with Tampa that allow them to swap 1st round picks if that Florida first was going to be 1OA. It played out that way and Tampa got Vinny Lecavalier.

Phil Esposito engineered that trade for Tampa and said on Sirius XM that he orchestrated it to get Vinny and the Sharks were dumb suckers (my words, but he said he fleeced them). I want to say it was a dumb Deano move, but in any event, you can argue that trade was worse than drafting Koslov. Arguably worst move in franchise history.

I remember this trade; I was mad when Lombardi did it. Florida won the lottery that year which made that pick owned by the Sharks into 1OA. That activated the provision in the trade, which swapped picks with Tampa dropping the Sharks to 3OA where they drafted Brad Stuart. Lombardi thought getting Marchment was more important than keeping the lottery chance at drafting 1OA. But getting Marleau and Lecavalier in back to back years would have set up the team for a decade or more.

 

[ChompChomp]

I remember this trade; I was mad when Lombardi did it. Florida won the lottery that year which made that pick owned by the Sharks into 1OA. That activated the provision in the trade, which swapped picks with Tampa dropping the Sharks to 3OA where they drafted Brad Stuart. Lombardi thought getting Marchment was more important than keeping the lottery chance at drafting 1OA. But getting Marleau and Lecavalier in back to back years would have set up the team for a decade or more.

You are slightly mistaken about what happened. Florida winning lottery activated the moronic provision the Sharks should have never agreed to, dropping them to #2OA. They then traded down to 3 and got Stuart, and that trade from 2 to 3 gave them #29 OA in 2nd round which was used to draft Cheechoo.

 

[SjMilhouse]

You are slightly mistaken about what happened. Florida winning lottery activated the moronic provision the Sharks should have never agreed to, dropping them to #2OA. They then traded down to 3 and got Stuart, and that trade from 2 to 3 gave them #29 OA in 2nd round which was used to draft Cheechoo.

Vinny would have been amazing but then no cheechoo train whistles